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What does the fossil record say?

wilsoncole

Active Member
Man, reading this analogy was like reading Kent Hovind's Dissertation!:facepalm:
Had you known ANYTHING about TOE, you would have known that it starts somewhere like "in the middle." It requires a starting point, but is not concern with what that starting point looks like. So, if GOD, or Santa Claus, or Wilsoncole provided the "starting point" that fine for evolution. Therefore, your analogy would be more useful if you compare it with standing at the first or second floor and looking out; from the "foundation" looking up.

You're skirting around the issue, just like every other atheist. Try dealing with it directly.
Do you want me to show you what journals respected by evolutionists say about that "spontaneous" beginning?
Here's one.
Hang on!
"Overall it can be said that puzzle pieces are starting to come together in such a way that the scientific assumption of a spontaneous origin of life from non-living matter finally has achieved plausibility on the level of experimental evidence.

While research in the field now appears vastly more promising than just a decade ago, the science on the origin of life is, compared to the science of biological evolution, still considerably underdeveloped in its explanatory power. As Richard Robinson notes (Robinson 2005):
“Give biologists a cell, and they’ll give you the world. But beyond assuming the first cell must have somehow come into existence, how do biologists explain its emergence from the prebiotic world four billion years ago?”

Indeed, it is one thing that we know all the chemical building materials of life, and that the functioning of life can be fully explained by their collaboration in an extremely complex system. Yet it is another thing entirely how, at the origin of life, they could have formed an initial organization by themselves step by step (via whatever intermediary processes and building blocks). At first glance, evolution from LUCA, a precursor of bacteria, to humans may seem child’s play in comparison: it started from an already tremendously complex, entirely self-sufficient, biochemical machinery and bit by bit simply made it even more complex.

All the proteins produced from these genes are involved in a maze of pathways of metabolism, replication, as well as building and maintenance of structure, which is of bewildering complexity.

In fact, how else than through such a minimum amount of complexity, could even a primitive cell have met the just mentioned basic demands? How could such a vastly complex network of more than 200 proteins have arisen by itself? One might ask: would it not have to have arisen at once? Yet evidence suggests that all this complexity may have evolved, step by step, from very simple beginnings.

Of course, if life arose in deep-sea hydrothermal vents (see below), the composition of Earth’s early atmosphere would become largely irrelevant. To a certain extent, this also holds true for organic building blocks delivered (?????) to the earth by interplanetary dust particles and on carbonaceous meteorites."
(The Origin of Life)


I see only one speculation after another. Not a shred of evidence!
Is this the kind of material recommended to young students of biology?

Do you realize that you sound much more confident than they do?

BTW - Who is Kent Hovind?
 

JustWondering2

Just the facts Ma'am
I have a question for you Wilson. How do you think the materials of the very earth we live on and all the materials you see around you and including the Iron in your blood were formed? Notice I didn't say WHO did it, but how was it all formed!! Pay attention to that now HOW, Not who!

Beware, because the answer to that question will disprove you book version of creation. A hint it's all about physics/astronomy and not carbon dating or the Big Bang.

Good luck
OBTW, God did it is not an answer!
 

Autodidact

Intentionally Blank
You're skirting around the issue, just like every other atheist. Try dealing with it directly.
Do you want me to show you what journals respected by evolutionists say about that "spontaneous" beginning?
Nothing. It has nothing to do with evolution. It's a separate issue.

This is a rather simple concept, yet you seem unable to grasp it. Why do you think that is?
Here's one.
Hang on!
"Overall it can be said that puzzle pieces are starting to come together in such a way that the scientific assumption of a spontaneous origin of life from non-living matter finally has achieved plausibility on the level of experimental evidence.

While research in the field now appears vastly more promising than just a decade ago, the science on the origin of life is, compared to the science of biological evolution, still considerably underdeveloped in its explanatory power. As Richard Robinson notes (Robinson 2005):
That's right, get it? The question of how we get so many different species has been solved. The question of the origin of the first living thing hasn't...yet.
“Give biologists a cell, and they’ll give you the world. But beyond assuming the first cell must have somehow come into existence, how do biologists explain its emergence from the prebiotic world four billion years ago?”
We don't know yet, although there are some promising lines of inquiry. Since you are so interested in this subject, which is unrelated to the subject of this thread, I suggest you start a thread to discuss it. THIS THREAD IS ABOUT FOSSILS AND EVOLUTION. If you have nothing to say about FOSSILS AND EVOLUTION, please get out of this thread, which is about FOSSILS AND EVOLUTION.
Indeed, it is one thing that we know all the chemical building materials of life, and that the functioning of life can be fully explained by their collaboration in an extremely complex system. Yet it is another thing entirely how, at the origin of life, they could have formed an initial organization by themselves step by step (via whatever intermediary processes and building blocks). At first glance, evolution from LUCA, a precursor of bacteria, to humans may seem child’s play in comparison: it started from an already tremendously complex, entirely self-sufficient, biochemical machinery and bit by bit simply made it even more complex.

All the proteins produced from these genes are involved in a maze of pathways of metabolism, replication, as well as building and maintenance of structure, which is of bewildering complexity.

In fact, how else than through such a minimum amount of complexity, could even a primitive cell have met the just mentioned basic demands? How could such a vastly complex network of more than 200 proteins have arisen by itself? One might ask: would it not have to have arisen at once? Yet evidence suggests that all this complexity may have evolved, step by step, from very simple beginnings.

Of course, if life arose in deep-sea hydrothermal vents (see below), the composition of Earth’s early atmosphere would become largely irrelevant. To a certain extent, this also holds true for organic building blocks delivered (?????) to the earth by interplanetary dust particles and on carbonaceous meteorites."
(The Origin of Life)
You're beginning to catch on. Science has not yet solved this problem. It's unsolved-unlike evolution, which is, get it?


I see only one speculation after another. Not a shred of evidence!
Is this the kind of material recommended to young students of biology?
Start a thread.

BTW - Who is Kent Hovind?
A lying moron creationist.
 

JustWondering2

Just the facts Ma'am
Wilson quote:
"Where did the sand, the dust, the cells, the water, the electromagnetism, the physical laws, the chemistry, the elements, the mathematics and the intellect that put them all together come from?"


More basic than that my friend. Where did the Hydrogen and Helium that make up 95% of the universe come from, where did the laws of Physics come from, Well of coarse from GOD! Now where did you Bible come from? MAN! How could man of that day understand 13.5 Billion years or atomic structures or Physics? Even if the Bible is the word of GOD, that word was inturpriteded by MAN and written by MAN in a way MAN could understand of that day! To think it's 100% accurate and 100% the word of GOD is, well like believing in fairy tales!!
 

wilsoncole

Active Member
There you go again!! Man get it through your head! Science says nothing of the WHOM, In fact it doesn't matter to science!! For GODS sake get that through your head! Science is about the HOW!!! :facepalm:

OBTW, try this, worshop GOD, not the book man wrote about him!!

Get this through YOUR head - science seems to know nothing about the HOW either.
See Reply # 401.
 

ellenjanuary

Well-Known Member
I have a question for you Wilson. How do you think the materials of the very earth we live on and all the materials you see around you and including the Iron in your blood were formed? Notice I didn't say WHO did it, but how was it all formed!! Pay attention to that now HOW, Not who!

Beware, because the answer to that question will disprove you book version of creation. A hint it's all about physics/astronomy and not carbon dating or the Big Bang.

Good luck
OBTW, God did it is not an answer!
[youtube]V0KjXsGRvoA[/youtube]
YouTube - CERN: The Standard Model Of Particle Physics
me likes that video. :)
Wilson OK here, he creationist fossil. ;)
 

JustWondering2

Just the facts Ma'am
Get this through YOUR head - science seems to know nothing about the HOW either.
See Reply # 401.

So that must mean you don't know? Gee, yes Science does know the answer to my question. A 1st year physics/science/astronomy major would as well! We see a second or third generation version of it in the sky every day, well unless it's cloudy or you stay inside.

Your word "seems", I guess that means in your opinion. Right? Tell ya what, go to you local junior college and take a freshman Astronomy class. Should be easy for a smart person like you to grasp the concepts. One key fact you'll learn is this. Our Sun is a second or third generation star. In other words there were stars in or area that were here and died long before ours did! Not days, billions of years before! Further our sun is not large/hot/dense enough to even produce Iron or any of the other heavy metals. Iron, the stuff our blood carries Oxygen to our cells with came from another star!! One that died out long before ours was born! Remember this is GODS laws of physics we're talking about.

I can explain how this happens if you like? Oh and this has been pretty common knowedge for many years!! Ain't science grand?
 

outhouse

Atheistically
wilson, wilson, hey wilson over here :)

Say it with me, ABIOGENESIS this is not evolution bud.

Wilson I know how bad you want to hold on to jewish dogma to base creation off of but that never happened. Its mostly fiction bud. Even jews will tell you not to read the OT literally but rather you have to! read It allegorically.

No matter how you read the the OT

YOU HAVE TO ACCEPT EVOLUTION BECAUSE ITS FACTS, OBSERVED FACTS.

THERE IS NO DEBATE
 

outhouse

Atheistically
Soory all if I derailed the thread!! My bad!


your ok bud lol :)

creationist have tried to derail the truth at every page. :facepalm:

The fossil evidence is so strong but evolution doesnt need it. :eek:

Funny thing about fossils :) out of millions found. Not one has come from a date in the rock layers that is out of sequence with evolution. Not one out of millions. :yes:
 

JustWondering2

Just the facts Ma'am
As I thought. No answer to the HOW, just the who. We all know the who, it's the how that's really interesting! If you blind yourself with with a myth placing all your eggs in that basket, any statement being false or not accurate will (in some peoples mind) bring the whole house of cards down! That's the problem for creationist/YEC. They have to take the whole book as fact or nothing! It's so sad the lengths they go to. Ask them a straight question about HOW it happened and all they can say is GOD did it! Sad, really sad!
 

JustWondering2

Just the facts Ma'am
your ok bud lol :)

creationist have tried to derail the truth at every page. :facepalm:

The fossil evidence is so strong but evolution doesnt need it. :eek:

Funny thing about fossils :) out of millions found. Not one has come from a date in the rock layers that is out of sequence with evolution. Not one out of millions. :yes:

That's because the FLOOD was world wide!! LOL :run:
And I believe in the tooth fairy too, I even saw the movie.
 

Dan4reason

Facts not Faith
wilson, wilson, hey wilson over here :)

Say it with me, ABIOGENESIS this is not evolution bud.

Wilson I know how bad you want to hold on to jewish dogma to base creation off of but that never happened. Its mostly fiction bud. Even jews will tell you not to read the OT literally but rather you have to! read It allegorically.

No matter how you read the the OT

YOU HAVE TO ACCEPT EVOLUTION BECAUSE ITS FACTS, OBSERVED FACTS.

THERE IS NO DEBATE

Yes there is a debate. Insisting that evolution is a fact does not make it one. Insisting that there is no debate does not mean there is none.

I will ask you one question: What is the evidence for evolution?
 

outhouse

Atheistically
Yes there is a debate. Insisting that evolution is a fact does not make it one. Insisting that there is no debate does not mean there is none.

I will ask you one question: What is the evidence for evolution?


there is no proof for evolution if you want to get analytical

To answer your question i would ask which evidence would you like in what field. then point you here.

Evidence for Evolution: An Eclectic Survey


there is not a debate between evolution and creation.

there is only educating creationist who in general have closed minds.

the observation of facts leeds us to Evolution

evolution is fact as gravity but your right it is not fact.
 

jarofthoughts

Empirical Curmudgeon
Yes there is a debate.

There are several.
None about whether evolution is true or not though.

Insisting that evolution is a fact does not make it one.

No, but pointing to the mountains of evidence supporting it does.

Insisting that there is no debate does not mean there is none.

There are several.
None about whether evolution is true or not though.

I will ask you one question: What is the evidence for evolution?

Considering the mountains of evidence that exists, covering multiple disciplines of science, asking us to sum it up in a forum post is just silly. This is a subject of which there has been written hundreds if not thousands of books.
However...
Make a trip to a museum of Natural History and have a look for yourself.
Or, if you are more of the reading type, I suggest picking up "The Greatest Show on Earth" by Richard Dawkins. It is written specifically to cover the evidence for evolution.
 

Autodidact

Intentionally Blank
Yes there is a debate. Insisting that evolution is a fact does not make it one. Insisting that there is no debate does not mean there is none.

I will ask you one question: What is the evidence for evolution?
There is no debate within Biology. That debate happened around a century ago, and the Theory of Evolution (ToE) won resoundingly, which is why all of modern Biology is based on it.

Wow. There is so much evidence, Dan, that it will take pages upon pages to lay out. I will do it for you, if you will stick with it and try to follow it. It is a huge subject, the subject of many thousands of books, hundreds of thousands of articles, summarized in dozens of textbooks and hundreds of Biology course. I will just skim the surface. I suggest we start a thread for that subject. Are you game?
 

Dan4reason

Facts not Faith
there is no proof for evolution if you want to get analytical

To answer your question i would ask which evidence would you like in what field. then point you here.

Evidence for Evolution: An Eclectic Survey


there is not a debate between evolution and creation.

there is only educating creationist who in general have closed minds.

the observation of facts leeds us to Evolution

evolution is fact as gravity but your right it is not fact.

Please do not present your argument by giving me stuff to read. If you have to present a hyperlink, give a summary of it.

You said it yourself. You have no evidence for evolution, and I agree that there is no debate right now because you are not making an argument. If you want to present evidence, you can start anywhere though I would suggest that you focus on the fossil evidence because that is what this thread is about.
 
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