What does the fossil record say?

[outhouse]

Please do not present your argument by giving me stuff to read. If you have to present a hyperlink, give a summary of it.

You said it yourself. You have no evidence for evolution, and I agree that there is no debate right now because you are not making an argument. If you want to present evidence, you can start anywhere though I would suggest that you focus on the fossil evidence because that is what this thread is about.

I dont want to have to teach you evolution its not my job

Do you want to debate fossils or not LOL

There is still no debate over evolution

evolution is an observation of facts and my reply stands

Theres to much evidence to even summarize

 

[Dan4reason]

I dont want to have to teach you evolution its not my job

Do you want to debate fossils or not LOL

There is still no debate over evolution

evolution is an observation of facts and my reply stands

Theres to much evidence to even summarize

I don't expect you to teach me anything however you must realize that this is a debate over the fossil evidence of the theory and you must provide sufficient evidence to "win."

I see atheists claiming all the time that religious people have something to prove about the existence of God, and even if there is no evidence against his existence we still must disbelieve it because it is not proven. I even made a thread arguing for this point.

In this way we have something to prove about the theory of evolution. Stating that evolution is a fact is nor helping the evidence part along.

 

[Autodidact]

Fossils are one important source of evidence, because they give us clues into the past. Since evolution is a slow process that took several billion years, this is important.

One key thing about fossils that really points to ToE is that if you dig down into the oldest layers of rock, you find the smallest, simplest organisms. As you go up into newer and newer layers, with each layer newer, more complex organisms are added to the complete fauna (and flora) fossils found. For example, you don't see any fossils of mammals whatsoever until you get to the newest layers of rock.

This happens over and over again, all over the world. It has never been violated, and always been borne out, literally millions of times.

Through ToE, we have seen that life originated in the seas, and only emerged onto land later.

Again, looking at thousands of fossils, we see that older fossils have fins and indications of gills, not legs and lungs. Later we see stronger, jointed legs and swimming bladders. Finally, much later, there is fossil evidence of lungs and true legs. The progression is clear.

Fossils show these sorts of transitions over and over, between land animals and whales, dinosaurs and birds, even between pre-hominids and humans.

That's just brushing the surface.

 

[Dan4reason]

There is no debate within Biology. That debate happened around a century ago, and the Theory of Evolution (ToE) won resoundingly, which is why all of modern Biology is based on it.

Wow. There is so much evidence, Dan, that it will take pages upon pages to lay out. I will do it for you, if you will stick with it and try to follow it. It is a huge subject, the subject of many thousands of books, hundreds of thousands of articles, summarized in dozens of textbooks and hundreds of Biology course. I will just skim the surface. I suggest we start a thread for that subject. Are you game?

I believe in the theory of evolution myself, but I responded the way I did because of the religiosity of outhouse's response. Proclaiming that evolution is a fact and that there is no debate is something I would expect a religious person to say. I am always interested in learning more about evolution because it does fascinates me.

There is some debate within scientific fields concerning the truth of the theory itself even though only a tiny minority within relevant fields disbelieve in it. Most of the debate concerning the theory is happening outside the scientific community and this thread is evidence of that.

 

[Dan4reason]

Fossils are one important source of evidence, because they give us clues into the past. Since evolution is a slow process that took several billion years, this is important.

One key thing about fossils that really points to ToE is that if you dig down into the oldest layers of rock, you find the smallest, simplest organisms. As you go up into newer and newer layers, with each layer newer, more complex organisms are added to the complete fauna (and flora) fossils found. For example, you don't see any fossils of mammals whatsoever until you get to the newest layers of rock.

This happens over and over again, all over the world. It has never been violated, and always been borne out, literally millions of times.

Through ToE, we have seen that life originated in the seas, and only emerged onto land later.

Again, looking at thousands of fossils, we see that older fossils have fins and indications of gills, not legs and lungs. Later we see stronger, jointed legs and swimming bladders. Finally, much later, there is fossil evidence of lungs and true legs. The progression is clear.

Fossils show these sorts of transitions over and over, between land animals and whales, dinosaurs and birds, even between pre-hominids and humans.

That's just brushing the surface.

I think that is one of the most compelling evidences of evolution we have. The ordered arrangement of fossils in the strata indicates evolution over time. The strata is cartoon in that it gives us snapshots of life on earth over billions of years.

My favorite fossil if Lucy which is an ape-like creature with the ability to walk.

 

[outhouse]

I think that is one of the most compelling evidences of evolution we have. The ordered arrangement of fossils in the strata indicates evolution over time. The strata is cartoon in that it gives us snapshots of life on earth over billions of years.

I have stated this probably in this thread but without the most compelling evidence part because its not.

you must realize that this is a debate over the fossil evidence of the theory and you must provide sufficient evidence to "win."

No i dont, there is no debate over the fossils as far as creation VS evolution

 

[outhouse]

Stating that evolution is a fact is nor helping the evidence part along.

Im not going to go over ground I have already covered just to make you happy.

the overwhelming evidence and facts are out there. go find them yourself I dont have time for your games

 

[Dan4reason]

I have stated this probably in this thread but without the most compelling evidence part because its not.

What is the most compelling evidence in your opinion?

No i dont, there is no debate over the fossils as far as creation VS evolution

Yes there is a debate. We see it all the time in creation-evolution debates.

 

[Dan4reason]

Im not going to go over ground I have already covered just to make you happy.

the overwhelming evidence and facts are out there. go find them yourself I dont have time for your games

I am not asking you to give me all the evidence to the last detail, I am simply advising you that claiming to creationists that evolution is a fact does not end the debate in any way and does not prove evolution. It simply lends more false credibility to the fallacy that evolution is a faith.

 

[outhouse]

religiosity of outhouse's response

who are you to judge me?

We are fighting the ignorance of creation here on a daily basis and you want to walk in the middle of a thread and start barking orders.

You can add to the thread but forum police your not!

 

[Dan4reason]

who are you to judge me?

We are fighting the ignorance of creation here on a daily basis and you want to walk in the middle of a thread and start barking orders.

You can add to the thread but forum police your not!

You presented an argument and I have the right to challenge it by arguing that it does not prove anything. We are not fighting anything, we are simply debating and many creationists are ignorant but many are quite intelligent. The best way to debate against ideas that we consider wrong is to provide evidence against them.

 

[outhouse]

What is the most compelling evidence in your opinion?

Modern DNA lineage mapping and tracking wins hands down.

Yes there is a debate. We see it all the time in creation-evolution debates.

those are not real debates. That is us teaching evolution to closed minded uneducated people who dont know any better and question it.

problem is most are not questioning it at all they are stating there beliefs in their myth.

There is no debate for evolution, it happened its happening and it will continue to do so.


Are you going to quit derailing this thread now?

 

[Autodidact]

What is the most compelling evidence in your opinion?

IMO the most compelling evidence is the nested hierarchy of all living things. To me, this single set (consisting of millions of pieces) of evidence is compelling, without looking at a single fossil.

Next would be the precise patterns of homologies. Again, it is persuasive in itself. It's like a diagram of evolutionary relationship. The fact that it matches up with the DNA evidence pretty much seals it up.

Yes there is a debate. We see it all the time in creation-evolution debates.

There is no debate within Biology, which is all that matters, if you accept science.

 

[outhouse]

The best way to debate against ideas that we consider wrong is to provide evidence against them

that only your opinion

i take everyone on a case by case basis.

you jump in here in the middle of a debate without knowledge at hand and started assuming.

wilson and a few others do not take to evidence, this is my fight not yours beat it! and go and educate them however you want but stay out of my buisiness.

 

[Dan4reason]

that only your opinion

i take everyone on a case by case basis.

you jump in here in the middle of a debate without knowledge at hand and started assuming.

wilson and a few others do not take to evidence, this is my fight not yours beat it! and go and educate them however you want but stay out of my buisiness.

I am sorry you feel that way. I am sorry I questioned.

 

[outhouse]

I am sorry you feel that way. I am sorry I questioned.

its all good bud , I hold no grudges and everbody gets a fair shake at it.

i would understand your position if I went in blindly with vitriol instead of knowledge.

 

[jarofthoughts]

What is the most compelling evidence in your opinion?

If we're only talking fossils my favorite would be Tiktaalik, not just for its persuasive power but also because it confirmed the predictive element in paleontology.

 

[wilsoncole]

It may be difficult to accept, but the fact is that order does indeed establish itself in nature (to a degree) spontaneously out of chaos without any sign of an active will.

Demonstrate, please.

Why so?

Wrong question! HOW so?

Because physical laws are coherent and predictable, and physical circunstances end up being shaped by those laws.

These "laws" - where did they come from?

One can hang a messed shirt in a room with enough vapor for enough time and it will become more presentable and ordered after some time.

Where did the matter come from for the shirt, the room, the vapor?

One can mix a variety of kinds of sand and dust into water and shake it for a time; the solids will spontaneously organize themselves due to gravity, and end up in fairly tidy, distinct levels according to their respective weights.

You seem to miss the FACT that these experiments are done by someone who utilizes laws that he did not make.

Similar occurrences of spontaneous self-organization happen in many other situations due to forces such as chemical affinity and eletromagnetic attraction.

Chemical affinity and electromagnetic attraction were not invented by men. To understand them, one must be properly educated.
You're not selling me that bill of goods! Self-organization is a myth!

It is simply the way things happen.

Sorry, Charlie! Natural things do not just "happen." They are controlled by laws and forces beyond the understanding of men. Nothing orderly ever arranges itself. Water freezes at a given temperature. The water did not set the temperature. A snowflake is the result of temperature, gravity, etc.

Stars and planets are formed because that is what happens when matter of a certain quantity and temperature cools down and slows down.

There you go with that "happen" song again! Nothing exists that was not made! What is the purpose of stars and planets? Do you think they are useless because you think they made themselves? What forces could men unleash if they managed to move one of them out of their assigned orbits? Don't tell me their orbits are random. Their precision rules that out.

If you put a magnet close to a nail, something "happens" But that is only because somebody put those things in close proximnity to each other. Nothing "happens" if you don't. Tell me - what happens if those stars do not cool down? How does your finger know when to stop growing? There is a blueprint - drawn by someone else.

Primitive cells, being more rudimentary, have an unstable, unreliable mechanism of self-reproduction.

You're joking - right? There is no such thing as a "primitive" cell. They are all of a very complex nature. Nothing reproduces itself.

They generate a considerable variety of mistakes, and naturally enough, many of those mistakes will simply not last many generations at all, while others will turn out to reproduce better than the previous generations.

That's the same old Darwinian "survival of the fittest" hokey. That situation does not exist in nature.

That is simple natural selection of primitive cells, and it really doesn't imply a conscious will in action, although of course it doesn't rule out such a hypothetical will either.

Either a will exists or it doesn't. And it cannot exist without a personality.

 

[outhouse]

Its sad to see people this far from reality in my opinion

 

[outhouse]

wilsoncole you do understand if everyone thought like you we would all die from disease and starvation. we would have no modern planes, cars or computers.

we would also probably be slaves for some other advanced country if we survived.

in my opinion