What does the fossil record say?

[wilsoncole]

We have, however, created self-replicating RNA... the simplest sort of "life" possible.

Knocking on the door of life: Self-replicating RNA synthesized

wa:do

Where did you get the material? Did you make that, too?
Besides.....
If that is the case, you only managed to prove that life HAD to have a creator.
Very simple, really.


(\__/)
( ‘ .‘ )
>(^)<

Wilson

 

[wilsoncole]

Because they were a nomadic people as well as traders so they knew this first hand as well as being told by others.

Either you did not read it or you simply did not understand it.
Here:
"All the winter torrents are going forth to the sea, yet the sea itself is not full. To the place where the winter torrents are going forth, there they are returning so as to go forth." (Ecclesiastes 1:7)
You continually give the impression that Bible writers were ignorant goat-herders.

Additionally one only has to look at a map to see that the Jordan River, a major biblical area where a lot of people from various villages along the river lived, knew that the river itself fed the sea.

Map? What map? You actually think Solomon had a map of the Middle East? And that he consulted the map before he penned that verse?
Solomon was not a nomad. Where did Solomon travel to obtain such knowledge?
And why is it that you can find this information in no other book of the same age?
Besides.....
The Jordan River runs between the Sea of Galillee and the Dead sea. It certainly does not serve to drain the entire earth.
And the question Solomon raised about the sea not becoming filled gives the impression that evaporation was at work.
Likewise, about 800&#12288;B.C.E. the prophet Amos, a humble shepherd and farmworker, wrote that Jehovah is "the One calling for the waters of the sea, that he may pour them out upon the surface of the earth." (Amos 5:8) Without using complex, technical language, both Solomon and Amos accurately described the water cycle, each from a slightly different perspective.
So it is that after the rains and the rivers have refreshed the earth, their waters are recycled from the oceans back into the clouds.
How would Amos know that the rains actually came from the seas?
But they really couldn't know anything about that - could they?
So - how did they know about the hydrological cycle?
You want to take another guess?
This one does not fly.

(\__/)
( ‘ .‘ )
>(^)<

Wilson

 

[outhouse]

So - how did they know about the hydrological cycle?

they didnt

they made rough guesses

To the place where the winter torrents are going forth, there they are returning so as to go forth."

they knew the clouds came from the ocean, they didnt have a clue on how the water got into the clouds or they would have said so. thats why they gave a rough guess, its all they knew.

"the One calling for the waters of the sea, that he may pour them out upon the surface of the earth

again they knew the clouds came from the sea as that is the way the wind blows.


both statements above are not accurate descriptions

they are only stateing what they observed and thats all

 

[Autodidact]

Explanation of what? The FACT that design is evident, is enough to indicate a designer. Ray Harris illustrates that adequately.

What kind of man was Michelangelo? What do you discern from his work? Do you not see his attention to detail; his almost perfect proportioning of his subjects which demonstrates his use of mathematics; his meticulous attention to light and shadow, etc, etc, etc.
You don't have to meet the man to realize that this man is a genius!
The same goes for the cell and the earth. Its amazing how well they are put together. But they couldn't have made themselves!

You've got that all wrong! Nobody expects you to believe anything. In fact you are already well known as unbelievers and we worry about why.
The entire outlook of materialists is characterized by wanton destructiveness. You have used the knowledge gained by science to assist you in the despoiling of the only home you have - earth.
“Astronauts circling the earth have waxed eloquent over this beautiful, fragile sphere sailing along in its orbit around the sun and have expressed the need for humankind to appreciate its beauty and to care for it. Astronaut Edgar Mitchell, when he first glimpsed earth from space, radioed Houston: “It looks like a sparkling blue and white jewel .&#12288;.&#12288;. laced with slowly swirling veils of white&#12288;.&#12288;.&#12288;.&#12288;, like a small pearl in a thick black sea of mystery.”
Astronaut Frank Borman’s comment was:
“We share such a beautiful planet. .&#12288;.&#12288;. The overwhelming wonderment is why in the world we can’t appreciate what we have.”
One of the astronauts of the Apollo 8 moon flight commented: “In the whole universe, wherever we looked, the only bit of color was back on the earth. There we could see the royal blue of the seas, the tans and browns of the land, and the whites of the clouds. .&#12288;.&#12288;. It was the most beautiful thing to see, in all the heavens. People down here don’t realize what they have.” (AW 95 11/22 p. 10)
Why is the ingenuity of science not being used to upbuild and uplift earth’s resources?

Who said that it was created in its current state? It began with paradise. Greed and selfishness, hatred and violence dominate the entire planet. Bloodspilling has reached epidemic proportions. And you think that this is normal? But this is the kind of life that you choose.

You seem to be blaming God for the mess you’ve made of earth and of your life.
Well - he didn’t stop you, did he?
Do you think he should have?
How?

(\__/)
( ‘ .‘ )
>(^)<

Wilson

Fossils? Evolution? Just sayin'.

 

[Gunfingers]

Where did you get the material? Did you make that, too?
Besides.....
If that is the case, you only managed to prove that life HAD to have a creator.
Very simple, really.


(\__/)
( ‘ .‘ )
>(^)<

Wilson

See how they can't be wrong? "Life had to have a creator, that's why your scientists can't make life in a lab!" "Well actually simple life has been synthesized in a lab." "HA! You see! You created life! That means life had to have a creator!"

 

[painted wolf]

Heads I win, tails you loose...

You have to wonder if some people ever get dizzy with all the logical loop--de-loops?

wa:do

 

[wilsoncole]

Originally Posted by wilsoncole
Where did you get the material? Did you make that, too?
Besides.....
If that is the case, you only managed to prove that life HAD to have a creator.
Very simple, really.

See how they can't be wrong? "Life had to have a creator, that's why your scientists can't make life in a lab!" "Well actually simple life has been synthesized in a lab." "HA! You see! You created life! That means life had to have a creator!"

Life cannot create itself.
No scientist has made the claim that they created life!
Life is immaterial! You didn't create life, you cannot create life!
And what if you did? Would you then call yourself the creator?
Remember - life only comes from life.
Now - try a relevant response. Sarcasm won't do it.

(\__/)
( ‘ .‘ )
>(^)<

Wilson

 

[wilsoncole]

they didnt

And why is it that you can find this information in no other book of the same age?

they made rough guesses

Can you do as well? Have you considered the accuracy of their statements?

they knew the clouds came from the ocean, they didnt have a clue on how the water got into the clouds or they would have said so. thats why they gave a rough guess, its all they knew.

again they knew the clouds came from the sea as that is the way the wind blows.

How did these ignorant people figure out how sea water got into the clouds and becomes rain? Who told them about evaporation?

both statements above are not accurate descriptions

What is scientifically wrong with their descriptions of the hydrological cycle?

they are only stateing what they observed and thats all

They observed water going UP into the sky?
Get real!
The one doing the guessing is YOU!
The Bible is quite accurate on this point.

(\__/)
( &#8216; .&#8216; )
>(^)<

Wilson

 

[Dirty Penguin]

Either you did not read it or you simply did not understand it.
Here:

"All the winter torrents are going forth to the sea, yet the sea itself is not full. To the place where the winter torrents are going forth, there they are returning so as to go forth." (Ecclesiastes 1:7)
You continually give the impression that Bible writers were ignorant goat-herders.

Map? What map? You actually think Solomon had a map of the Middle East? And that he consulted the map before he penned that verse?

Because most were. I'm sorry but this cat and mouse game is quite boring. Yes, some of the people back then were nomadic and they were traders with other people and other cultures (i.e. Egypt as well as Arabia). Knowledge as well as other stories were passed around. Yes, people knew that rivers fed the sea.... etc...etc... Knowledge that the rivers fed the sea was not new information. The Sumerians as well as the Egyptians held this knowledge. Remember, the Sumerians are an older civilization dating back way before the biblical writing. Supposedly your Moses left Egypt and took followers with him so the knowledge of irrigation and hydrology existed with the Egyptians before Moses' "exodus". The PDF I linked below gives more info on their endeavors.



http://unesdoc.unesco.org/images/0012/001281/128170eo.pdf
"The people, however, must have had extensive
practical understanding of running water, else they could not have
operated a large and complicated irrigation system on the
Mesopotamian plain. They had such a system at least as early
as 4000 B.C., and perhaps much earlier."


Hydrology - The Canadian Encyclopedia
"Practical application of hydrological principles preceded a thorough understanding. As early as 4000 BC the Sumerians developed a complicated, extensive irrigation system which lasted some 5000 years. Large-scale flood-irrigation agriculture in the Nile Valley developed at least as early as 3400 BC. In China waterworks date from before 2000 BC. The earliest known hydrological measurements date to 3500-3000 BC, when nilometers were first used to measure the levels of the Nile."


http://www.waterencyclopedia.com/Hy-La/Irrigation-Systems-Ancient.html
"The Assyrians also developed extensive public works. Sargon II, invading Armenia in 714 B.C.E. , discovered the qanat (Arabic name) or kariz (Persian name), which is a tunnel used to bring water from an underground source in the hills down to the foothills."

​

Yes, there were most definitely maps back then.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Early_world_maps
"The oldest known world map dates back to ancient Babylonia from the 9th century BCE"

I'm in no way saying Solomon had access to a map but the knowledge of the surrounding areas was not that much of a mystery. So once again. The knowledge that rivers flowed from the mountains and into the sea was well known before the writings of the bible even took place.

Surely we have severely digressed from the main topic. How about the fossil record. Where does the fossil I posted fit into the supposed "human creation" if man (Adam) was created fully formed?

 

[David M]

Where did you get the material? Did you make that, too?
Besides.....
If that is the case, you only managed to prove that life HAD to have a creator.
Very simple, really.


(\__/)
( ‘ .‘ )
>(^)<

Wilson

No, It "proved" that supernatural forces are not needed to create self-replicating RNA.

 

[waitasec]

Where did you get the material? Did you make that, too?
Besides.....
If that is the case, you only managed to prove that life HAD to have a creator.
Very simple, really.

we have what we have....we know it came from out there, there, there, there...we have evidence to prove it came from
out there, there, there, there...wilson....out there, there, there, there always existed in some form or another, another, another, another

 

[wilsoncole]

No, It "proved" that supernatural forces are not needed to create self-replicating RNA.

Where did you get the material? Did you make that, too?
Where did you get the material? Did you make that, too?


(\__/)
( &#8216; .&#8216; )
>(^)<

Wilson

 

[David M]

Where did you get the material? Did you make that, too?
Where did you get the material? Did you make that, too?


(\__/)
( ‘ .‘ )
>(^)<

Wilson

So now you are reduced to "God created quarks" because it has been shows that supernatural intervention is not needed to create atoms.

Thats desperately sad Wilson.

 

[waitasec]

Where did you get the material? Did you make that, too?
Where did you get the material? Did you make that, too?

an embellishment i see...i'm flattered



you know i'm right....

 

[Jose Fly]

Well then, I suppose God created tuberculosis, cholera, HIV, ebola, smallpox, malaria, etc. 'Cause we all know those things absolutely cannot evolve, right?

Thus, this "god" is the most prolific bio-terrorist in history.

 

[waitasec]

Well then, I suppose God created tuberculosis, cholera, HIV, ebola, smallpox, malaria, etc. 'Cause we all know those things absolutely cannot evolve, right?

Thus, this "god" is the most prolific bio-terrorist in history.

indeed...

 

[outhouse]

Well then, I suppose God created tuberculosis, cholera, HIV, ebola, smallpox, malaria, etc. 'Cause we all know those things absolutely cannot evolve, right?

Thus, this "god" is the most prolific bio-terrorist in history.

such kind words lol for a known genocidal maniac who flushed the whole worlds poulation down the drain with a flood that killed inoccent creatures as well. in my opinion.

 

[tumbleweed41]

Where did you get the material? Did you make that, too?
Where did you get the material? Did you make that, too?

http://www.religiousforums.com/forum/science-vs-religion/110699-bill-oreilly-uh-hodigethere.html

 

[Autodidact]

Life cannot create itself.
No scientist has made the claim that they created life!
Life is immaterial! You didn't create life, you cannot create life!
And what if you did? Would you then call yourself the creator?
Remember - life only comes from life.
Now - try a relevant response. Sarcasm won't do it.

(\__/)
( ‘ .‘ )
>(^)<

Wilson

Your response illustrates how your hypothesis is non-falsifiable, in other words, non-scientific. If scientists can create life in the lab, then you're right. If they can't, then you're right. Another way to look at this is that you cannot cite inability to create life in a lab to support your argument, since it is in fact irrelevant. You have pre-decided that you are right regardless of the facts.

Real science goes out on a limb and makes predictions one way or the other. If the prediction is not borne out, the hypothesis is shot down. Pseudo-science doesn't have the courage to make a falsifiable prediction.

 

[Krok]

How did these ignorant people figure out how sea water got into the clouds and becomes rain? Who told them about evaporation?
What is scientifically wrong with their descriptions of the hydrological cycle?
They observed water going UP into the sky?

That's strange. When I was a child, I often put sea water into a bucket with a lid on it to keep the little fishies my dad caught for me in rock pools, alive. In the beginning I left no opening. Water appeared on the bottom of the lid every morning I opened and checked on the fishies. When I licked the bottom side of the lid, I could taste fresh water. Somehow some water moved from the bucket to the belly of the lid. All the little fishies in the bucket died quickly, though.

Later I learned to put the lid on with a little opening towards the side and the fishies didn't die. The water started disappearing more quickly. Somehow water still always appeared on the lower side of the lid. Fresh water. Not salty at all. Voila! I figured out that water disappears into the air and appears on the lid again. I learned that I should add a little water every day. The fishies survived. I also learned that there is something else in the open air that the fishies need to survive. You don't have to be a genius to figure that one out.

As a little child with a short attention span, I also found out that if I left the bucket without replenishing the water often enough, all the water would disappear and a little salt is left in the bucket with dry, dead fish. Voila! Water goes into the air.

I also discovered that it rains from clouds in the air. I put two and two together and and realized that water "disappears" into the air and "reappears" from the air. And I was so young that I barely could walk without falling over. Religionists would call me a prophet if I lived a few thousand years ago, wrote it down, called it the "water cycle" and they read it now. Some people living today would propably worship me or at least have called me a prophet. :bow: And it would have been more accurate than the one described in the Bible! :angel2: