Humanistheart
Well-Known Member
I see. It says the one who can accpet this should. Could one interpret that as it's not necessary to live a chaste life in abscence of marriage, that' its just prefered?
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What does the NT say about premarital sex?
- Thread starter Humanistheart
- Start date
I see. It says the one who can accpet this should. Could one interpret that as it's not necessary to live a chaste life in abscence of marriage, that' its just prefered?
Wannabe Yogi
Well-Known Member
I don't think it is. All the early proto Orthodox Christians were in two camps.
-Only the weak Christians should get married.
-Its ok to get married as long as you don't have sex for fun. It is ok to have babies.
You can see that this is supported by the NT. Every early Christian Father that I have read believed the story of Adam and Eve was about sex leading to the fall in one way of another.
Augustine ( the most important theologian in the western Church history) said that The desire to have sex is proof of the fall of Adam and Eve. He also wrote the only good thing that comes out of marriage is more Virgins.
dust1n
Zindīq
That is particularly interesting, I've never really thought about it on those terms before, but it makes sense. And most 'gurus' of their religion abstain from sex in the pursuit of knowledge. Is it just universally sound to say the sex ultimately distracts one from truth or knowledge, a drain on creative energy, if you will?
I'm starting to find it particularly strange that the Bible is against fun sex, even within marriage. Why is the ultimate bane not sex, but the enjoyment of it?
dust1n
Zindīq
Well, only if the pure discussion is, "Does God consider premarital sex a sin?"
But in my opinion, like any sin, the acts are always banished, not the intentions of acts, nor is there any weight in the context of the situation.
Personally, I think the Christian system of Justice is strongly lacking in many ways.
Humanistheart
Well-Known Member
"
So the Greek word porneia can mean adultery (which is sex outside of marriage), incest (which is sex outside of marriage), prostitution (which is sex outside of marriage), fornication (which is sex outside of marriage), etc., depending on the context.
- "and from fornication; not spiritual fornication or idolatry, but fornication taken in a literal sense, for the carnal copulation of one single person with another" (Gill's commentary
, Acts 15:20, emphasis added)
- "Fornication - Hebrew: zanah / Greek: porneia
Fornication is voluntary sexual intercourse between a man and woman who are not married to each other. Adultery is one type of fornication.
In every form, fornication was sternly condemned by the Mosaic law among God's people, the Israelites (Lev. 21:9; 19:29; Deut. 22:20-11, 23-29; 23:18; Ex. 22:16). (See ADULTERY.)
Fornication is also mentioned many times in the New Testament (Matt. 5:32; 19:9; John 8:41; Acts 15:20, 29; 21:25; Rom. 1:29; 1 Cor 5:1, 6:13, 18, 7:2; 10:8; 2 Cor 12:21; Gal 5:19; Eph 5:3; Col 3:5; 1 Thess. 4:3; Jude 1:7; Rev. 2:14, 20-21; 9:21; 14:8; 17:2,4).
"The Greek word for 'fornication' (porneia) could include any sexual sin committed after the betrothal contract. ...In Biblical usage, 'fornication' can mean any sexual congress outside monogamous marriage. It thus includes not only premarital sex, but also adultery, homosexual acts, incest, remarriage after un-Biblical divorce, and sexual acts with animals, all of which are explicitly forbidden in the law as given through Moses (Leviticus 20:10-21). Christ expanded the prohibition against adultery to include even sexual lusting (Matthew 5:28)." (Dr. Henry M. Morris)
The word "fornication" is sometimes used in a symbolic sense in the Bible, for example, meaning a forsaking of God or a following after idols (Isa. 1:2; Jer. 2:20; Ezek. 16; Hos. 1:2; 2:1-5; Jer. 3:8-9)." (christiananswers.net
What it boils down to is that sex outside of marriage is always a sin, whether it's adultery, incest, prostitution, fornication, etc.
This is slightly off topic but for the example of incest, while I hope that wouldn't come up today, what if a brother and sister or some other example were to marry, as abraham did with his half sister?
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Humanistheart
Well-Known Member
Yes, that is why I asked if Jesus ever spoke to the topic.
Humanistheart
Well-Known Member
I'm sorry, do you mean I can see that ideas christians had toward sex in the NT or that this christian ideology is supported in the NT?
Either way, that's some very interesting historical tidbits.
dust1n
Zindīq
Sorry, the second post was just a continuation of the first post.
If the Bible states that both incest and sex outside of marriage are bad, then incest wouldn't be justified in marriage. But then again their is the tedious task of defining that incest is acceptable and what isn't, at least in terms of the Bible.
dust1n
Zindīq
Which I imagined was the case, thus was I was trying to diagnose the situation the way I did.
Charity
Let's go racing boys !
Even without the emphasis on certain scriptures, I believe one could assume that great importance was placed on purity and the fact that Mary was chosen because she was an example of that fact....
Of course it said nothing as to whether Joseph was also pure....
Another case where women turn out to be the one frowned on and the man gets away without question......
Of course it said nothing as to whether Joseph was also pure....
Another case where women turn out to be the one frowned on and the man gets away without question......
dust1n
Zindīq
Isn't that an emphasis on certain scripture, the scripture which describes the virgin Mary?
Of course it said nothing as to whether Joseph was also pure....
Another case where women turn out to be the one frowned on and the man gets away without question......
Well in this case, the woman is smiled heavily upon, and the man is considered rather unimportant, considering God didn't mention his pureness.
Humanistheart
Well-Known Member
Hmm, I see.
Humanistheart
Well-Known Member
Even without the emphasis on certain scriptures, I believe one could assume that great importance was placed on purity and the fact that Mary was chosen because she was an example of that fact....
Of course it said nothing as to whether Joseph was also pure....
Another case where women turn out to be the one frowned on and the man gets away without question......
Lol, well, I don't know if joseph was unpure, but in many christian traditions isn't it assumed that joseph had a previous wife? (Which would not affect his purity) It's one way to explain why people call mary the virgin marry dispite the bible listing jesus' brother and sisters. That they were really his step siblings from joseph's first marriage.
Still, I'm sure you're right that purity was favorible, but does that also mean that being 'unpure' as it were was completely condemned? (Also thank's for the responce; it's nice to see a christian in the christian section
)
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Charity
Let's go racing boys !
Yes that is scripture, but I'm speaking of the scriptures that actually speak directly against premarital sex. Without actually pointing to those specific scriptures....
Actually it did mention a good virtue in Joseph due to the fact that he wanted to marry and keep her from public ridicule.....I think that is admirable on his part. After all given the situation what would any man be inclined to think?
Humanistheart
Well-Known Member
At that point in time, considering they lived on the edge of jewish (roman controlled) territory, it would be a likely conclusion, from jospeh's perspective, that mary was raped by a roman soldier. or she had chosen to be with a man of her free will. I think those would be the only options considered.
dust1n
Zindīq
That makes more sense! I was just thinking '...wait, I thought no scripture.' You are right though, it's going to be a lot hard to find a particular answer in one particular passage than in within the entirety of a story.
Fathering the savior.. that must have been tough. Safe to say, Joseph had it pretty easy as a father. No instilling of obedience, not really having the teach him anything. Pretty sweet gig if you ask me.
Humanistheart
Well-Known Member
Funny thing, just a side note. joseph disappears relatively early in jesus' life. There's no mention of him, at least alive, after the few mentions of jesus' childhood, and I don't think he was even mentioned in their trip the the temple the day jesus was found discussing with the rabbi's there.
dust1n
Zindīq
Hah, I would say he was a bad father, but I mean... he obviously didn't need a father.. well, other than the Father.
Humanistheart
Well-Known Member
Lol, well I think the most probable reason is, assuming there's accuracy to the NT, that he had passed on by then. The average life span for people in that time, place, and vocation was only 30-35 years after all.
dust1n
Zindīq
Good point. I wish more Christians would openly discuss the OP topic with us man. I want to be enlightened or something. I mean, I'm not going to pick my dusty old Bible and try to get to the bottom of this premarital sex = sin thing, but I am very curious to the answer, heh.