What does the RF Muslim community make of this video?

[Phasmid]

And what do the rest of you think?

[youtube]ZHdMlT3E7cg[/youtube]
YouTube - 3 Things You Should Know About Islam ما يجب أن تعرفه عن الإسلام

 

[Aquitaine]

And what do the rest of you think?

[youtube]ZHdMlT3E7cg[/youtube]
YouTube - 3 Things You Should Know About Islam ما يجب أن تعرفه عن الإسلام

Personally, I thought it was a bit over-the-top. Kinda trying to spread paranoia that "they" are basically gonna kill/convert us.

End of the day, religious scripture and religion in itself is dependent on the follwer's interpretation. Just like how you can find right-wing Bible bashers in the US, you will also find humble and peacefull, kind-hearted Christians too - both referring to the same source for their religious beliefs and actions etc.

I think the same goes for Islam and Muslims.

 

[jonman122]

That's all stuff i'd already heard about, so it doesn't surprise me. What is surprising is how many muslims break the tenants of the Qur'an themselves, interpreting it how they want even when it say in the Qur'an itself that this isn't allowed.

My personal opinion is that Islam is dangerous, their entire goal in life is to convert everyone who is a non muslim, kill anyone who speaks out against muhammad (or draws his picture ) and to make the entire world follow their view of god and old desert law. Because that's what it is, old desert law that works well when you have nothing but constant fighting between tribes and lack of anything for miles around.

some muslims may very well be peaceful, but then they really are already condemned by their own holy book to burn for eternity so..

 

[beenie]

generalize much?

 

[.lava]

their entire goal in life is to convert everyone who is a non muslim, kill anyone who speaks out against muhammad (or draws his picture ) and to make the entire world follow their view of god and old desert law.

2:256 Let there be no compulsion in religion: Truth stands out clear from Error:..

4:140 And indeed He has revealed to you in the Book that when you hear Allah's communications disbelieved in and mocked at do not sit with them until they enter into some other discourse;..

11:118 And if your Lord had pleased He would certainly have made people a single nation, and they shall continue to differ.

.

 

[jonman122]

generalize much?

there is really only 1 type of muslim, anyone else is not considered a muslim by true muslims, or anyone else (as it said in the video) is lying to their peers to appear more reasonable.

Do you deny that the Qur'an says to kill apostates? And that the Qur'an itself is said to be taken literally, not figuratively? that leaves little room for expansion...

 

[.lava]

Do you deny that the Qur'an says to kill apostates?

i do because it does not

.

 

[xkatz]

The first 30 seconds is so true

That video was annoying IMO. They kept on rotating the text, which got on my nerve. Also, Muslims CAN pick and choose what they believe in the Quran, no one can really stop them from that. I don't think Sharia has a place in my country but I don't think Muslims try to impose it necessarily.

 

[beenie]

there is really only 1 type of muslim, anyone else is not considered a muslim by true muslims, or anyone else (as it said in the video) is lying to their peers to appear more reasonable.

Do you deny that the Qur'an says to kill apostates? And that the Qur'an itself is said to be taken literally, not figuratively? that leaves little room for expansion...

i do because it does not

.

ahhh, .lava you beat me to it.

also, where does it say that the Qur'an needs to be taken literally? can you post an ayah that says that? not some scholar...not a Hadith...the Qur'an, since that's what's being discussed here?

 

[.lava]

ahhh, .lava you beat me to it.

also, where does it say that the Qur'an needs to be taken literally? can you post an ayah that says that? not some scholar...not a Hadith...the Qur'an, since that's what's being discussed here?

3:7 He it is Who has revealed the Book to you; some of its verses are decisive, they are the basis of the Book, and others are allegorical; then as for those in whose hearts there is perversity they follow the part of it which is allegorical, seeking to mislead and seeking to give it (their own) interpretation...

.

 

[Kerr]

That's all stuff i'd already heard about, so it doesn't surprise me. What is surprising is how many muslims break the tenants of the Qur'an themselves, interpreting it how they want even when it say in the Qur'an itself that this isn't allowed.

My personal opinion is that Islam is dangerous, their entire goal in life is to convert everyone who is a non muslim, kill anyone who speaks out against muhammad (or draws his picture ) and to make the entire world follow their view of god and old desert law. Because that's what it is, old desert law that works well when you have nothing but constant fighting between tribes and lack of anything for miles around.

some muslims may very well be peaceful, but then they really are already condemned by their own holy book to burn for eternity so..

If this is what the video say (late here, cant watch it now because I am going to bed)... it sounds more like paranoia then what is actually going on to me.

 

[Badran]

What does the RF Muslim community make of this video?

Propaganda at its finest. This video really serves its purpose very well.

1) Islam hasn't been hijacked

Of course it hasn't been hijacked, just because a lot of people do not follow it correctly, doesn't mean its been hijacked. As for the Quran being literal, as in we don't pick and choose, of course we don't. So what?

The thing that must be put in mind is that interpreting the Quran is not dependent on one factor and thats it, a lot of stuff goes in to that process. When they say that a new rule arrogates an old contradictory one, they are half right, because yes that is the case, but it doesn't apply the way they are suggesting. All the verses in the Quran they have in mind concerning wars and stuff are not general rules, so they do not override the old general ones. All the supposed arrogated rules are in fact not so, and are agreed upon to be as such.

2) Sharia must be implemented everywhere. And muslims are at war with non-muslims.........

Nonsense, pure and simple. Sharia is implementing Islamic rules on ourselves, it shouldn't and wouldn't apply fully in the first place to non-muslims even in a majority populated muslim country. So how can we fight for its appliance on non-muslims, in a non-muslim country? How?

As for the ridiculous notion that we are supposedly out to fight non-believers, that is funny because it contradicts with many of the teachings of Islam.

3) Taqyya

There is no such thing in the first place. I only heard this term recently, its only shia muslims who use that term, and they do not apply it in the laughable way the video is suggesting. In reality its like this, muslims are allowed to hide their faith if death is inevitable, like in the beginning days of Islam when Quraysh where persecuting them.

 

[Badran]

That's all stuff i'd already heard about, so it doesn't surprise me. What is surprising is how many muslims break the tenants of the Qur'an themselves, interpreting it how they want even when it say in the Qur'an itself that this isn't allowed.

Perhaps knowing about the subject you speak about might be helpful? Its not a good idea to make such statements without much knowledge or proof or arguments for that matter behind it, is it?

My personal opinion is that Islam is dangerous, their entire goal in life is to convert everyone who is a non muslim, kill anyone who speaks out against muhammad (or draws his picture ) and to make the entire world follow their view of god and old desert law.

How come neither me or anybody i know is doing anything from what you're saying? We are muslims after all. Why do you think that is?

some muslims may very well be peaceful, but then they really are already condemned by their own holy book to burn for eternity so..

"May"? I mean some must be so, don't you think?

Anyway there is no such instruction in the Quran as you claim. That peaceful muslims will burn for eternity. Where did you get that from? this video?

Do you deny that the Qur'an says to kill apostates?

I have to repeat my advice to you, cause as been pointed out it does not say so.

And that the Qur'an itself is said to be taken literally, not figuratively? that leaves little room for expansion...

The Quran is to be taken as it says, that doesn't mean to take it at face value without following the correct measures to interpret the verse. In other words, if by literally you mean exactly as its spelled out without any thinking then no, we don't do that. However if you mean we take it as it is, then of course we do.

 

[Eliot Wild]

What do the rest of us think? Well, I find myself in the unfamiliar territory of defending Islam. And that's also unfortunate, 'cause I'm very ignorant about Islam.

However, it seems to me that we are all free to pick and choose our beliefs, regardless of the label we apply to ourselves. In some contexts, I refer to myself as Christian, because I will cherry pick the Bible like a madman. For example, I find valuable truth in Christ's teachings. But I ain't so keen on much of the other parts.

As Badran indicated, the issue seems, at least to me, much more complicated than it was presented by the video. Anyone subject to the United States Constitution, like myself, knows that even the most revered and seemingly explicit law codes can be amended and argued over again and again and again.

Like many others, I am often confounded by the absurd violence I see perpetrated in the name of Islam. But I am not yet prepared to paint all Muslims with so wide a brush.

 

[Badran]

However, it seems to me that we are all free to pick and choose our beliefs, regardless of the label we apply to ourselves. In some contexts, I refer to myself as Christian, because I will cherry pick the Bible like a madman. For example, I find valuable truth in Christ's teachings. But I ain't so keen on much of the other parts.

That is exactly the case. This is an unescapable fact of life. Although there is a main stream opinion in Islam (which by the way contradicts with the common misunderstandings that some have, like some of the ones displayed here), people will always have different take on things, which isn't something negative. Up until this very day there are lots of issues that even inside that mainstream, people have different takes on some parts, and different understandings and so on.

As Badran indicated, the issue seems, at least to me, much more complicated than it was presented by the video. Anyone subject to the United States Constitution, like myself, knows that even the most revered and seemingly explicit law codes can be amended and argued over again and again and again.

Oh its much more complicated than the video presented. One other thing about the video, which i'm not sure if you've noticed, is that it suggests some sort of theory that supposedly muslims are out there to get you. That we supposedly can't understand that some people are actually not muslims, and therefore do not see eye to eye with us on multiple things. We only understand that the Quran is the word of god, and therefore it will be implemented on everybody, wether they like it or not, and then, there will be peace.

Its ridiculous really. And whats disturbing and gets me about this, is that this kind of thing does affect some people, they eat right into it, and get that awful impression.

 

[Penumbra]

To any Muslims here, I have a question regarding the video. It says that the Qur'an itself says that for any contradictions, a later verse supersedes an earlier verse. I've only read the Qur'an once, but I don't recall that verse. So can any one who is familiar with the Qur'an here confirm or deny that statement from the video for me? Does the Qur'an say that, and if so, where? I'm curious.

-Lyn

 

[McBell]

To any Muslims here, I have a question regarding the video. It says that the Qur'an itself says that for any contradictions, a later verse supersedes an earlier verse. I've only read the Qur'an once, but I don't recall that verse. So can any one who is familiar with the Qur'an here confirm or deny that statement from the video for me? Does the Qur'an say that, and if so, where? I'm curious.

-Lyn

This is something that I find weird about the video.
They make all manner of claims as to what the Koran says, but offer not one verse from the Koran to back up their claim.

Kinda makes a person wonder why they are making so many unsubstantiated claims.

 

[Badran]

To any Muslims here, I have a question regarding the video. It says that the Qur'an itself says that for any contradictions, a later verse supersedes an earlier verse. I've only read the Qur'an once, but I don't recall that verse. So can any one who is familiar with the Qur'an here confirm or deny that statement from the video for me? Does the Qur'an say that, and if so, where? I'm curious.

-Lyn

Here is the verse they are probably referring to:

002.106 None of Our revelations do We abrogate or cause to be forgotten, but We substitute something better or similar: Knowest thou not that God Hath power over all things?

Here is the thing though, what they are saying in the video in regards to that rule, is completely false. Also, although this rule is indeed true, this verse is not agreed upon to mean that(as in its not agreed upon that it is referring to this concept), there is another interpretation which in short says that this verse is referring to other older books which have been changed, and therefore forgotten (their original status that is) and the Quran is the substitution referred to (this is the interpretation i find correct). There are rules that changed in the quran, such as wine. First it was forbidden to be drunk during the prayer, as in God made it first a bad thing to be drunk during prayer, and then to be drunk at all, so that the change is gradual for those who have been accustomed to drinking.

However, wether or not this verse is explaining this rule or not, the idea itself is not general, nor does it apply in the sense implied in the video. What they are not aware of, or more likely are but intentionally ignoring, that what they refer to as contradiction is not. There are verses that deal with war and the like, and referring to particular people of a certain time, but that doesn't mean it overrides the other general rules concerning how to interact with non-muslims and other rules such as the one which says that we can not be the aggressors.

 

[Badran]

This is something that I find weird about the video.
They make all manner of claims as to what the Koran says, but offer not one verse from the Koran to back up their claim.

Kinda makes a person wonder why they are making so many unsubstantiated claims.

I believe this is done, because if they specified, they know it will be easy to dismiss their claims. They didn't even bother to justify other claims like its supposedly our "duty" to strive to convert other systems to sharia law.

They make their claims, without specifying or providing any proof for it, and then they say that muslims are allowed to lie for the sake of any kind of advancement of our religion. So then, when we deny their claims, one might wonder "may be they practicing taqiyya right now". Partially also to serve our supposed world domination agenda. And of course since they said the peaceful verses are cancelled out, also without providing any proof for that, any verse we offer that counters what they say is now meaningless since you just learned that these don't count no more.

 

[jonman122]

[youtube]pQzuFrMRA3M[/youtube]
YouTube - Apostasy in Islam:Richard Dawkins extracts some truth from a Muslim

here is a video, at the end you will see what even a muslim teacher has to say about Apostasy in islam, and what they teach children happens when they leave the religion.

do you see christian fundamentalists blowing up buildings? terrorising the world? How do these fundamentalists get this from a book that is supposedly good?

is killing people who draw pictures of mohammad moral? this has occured, and i don't see christians killing people who oppose christianity, nearly exclusively it is muslims. HOW DO YOU EXPLAIN THIS?