What does the RF Muslim community make of this video?

[Badran]

here is a video, at the end you will see what even a muslim teacher has to say about Apostasy in islam, and what they teach children happens when they leave the religion.

Thats not what you said

You said the Quran prescribes death for apostasy, which is not true. This supposed punishment is from Hadiths, and Hadiths are not regarded in the same fashion as the Quran. As in there are lots of them, and not all of them are followed. We decide which ones to follow and which ones not to through a certain process, its goal is to determine which were really said by him, and which were not. Just in case you don't know, Hadiths are the sayings of our prophet, his teachings. Its also worth mentioning that this punishment is not approved by lots of muslims, or in other words not all muslims believe that this is an Islamic teaching or that our prophet has prescribed it, including me. And that is for lots of reasons. In fact, when the Quran mentions apostasy (which it does many times) it does not speak of any kind of punishment, let alone death penalty.

do you see christian fundamentalists blowing up buildings? terrorising the world? How do these fundamentalists get this from a book that is supposedly good?

Do abortion clinics count? And how did the older christians justify the horrible things they have done?

The point is that the fact that some use this religion in an awful manner doesn't speak for it, because the majority does not, and because most of their actions directly contradicts with the teachings, and i'll be happy to give you lots of examples.

is killing people who draw pictures of mohammad moral? this has occured, and i don't see christians killing people who oppose christianity, nearly exclusively it is muslims. HOW DO YOU EXPLAIN THIS?

Of course its not moral, if you keep track of more threads addressing muslim's or Islamic topics, you'll see that pretty much all muslim members here condemn such things.

As for christians not killing people who oppose their religion....... Once again was it always like that? There were christians before who did even worse than that. The point is, if you really want to understand why is it that this happens, you'll realize that its not really about religion in general. Such things are human attributes, and they excel at certain conditions.

 

[jonman122]

Thats not what you said

You said the Quran prescribes death for apostasy, which is not true. This supposed punishment is from Hadiths, and Hadiths are not regarded in the same fashion as the Quran. As in there are lots of them, and not all of them are followed. We decide which ones to follow and which ones not to through a certain process, its goal is to determine which were really said by him, and which were not. Just in case you don't know, Hadiths are the sayings of our prophet, his teachings. Its also worth mentioning that this punishment is not approved by lots of muslims, or in other words not all muslims believe that this is an Islamic teaching or that our prophet has prescribed it, including me. And that is for lots of reasons. In fact, when the Quran mentions apostasy (which it does many times) it does not speak of any kind of punishment, let alone death penalty.



Do abortion clinics count? And how did the older christians justify the horrible things they have done?

The point is that the fact that some use this religion in an awful manner doesn't speak for it, because the majority does not, and because most of their actions directly contradicts with the teachings, and i'll be happy to give you lots of examples.



Of course its not moral, if you keep track of more threads addressing muslim's or Islamic topics, you'll see that pretty much all muslim members here condemn such things.

As for christians not killing people who oppose their religion....... Once again was it always like that? There were christians before who did even worse than that. The point is, if you really want to understand why is it that this happens, you'll realize that its not really about religion in general. Such things are human attributes, and they excel at certain conditions.

you argument is flawed. at one point muslims were exclusively in the middle east, and at that point sharia law was all law for all muslims. Sharia law slowed tribal warfare and held the region in a state of peace by bringing the tribes together. However the laws that were imposed were far from moral, and Sharia law itself is not moral, just as the bible is not a moral book with solely moral teachings. And they do preach that apostasy is death, and that is what that video shows (go to the end and you'll see it)

Other than cultists, Islam is literally the most physically dangerous religion that there is in this world. Regardless of whether it is a majority or a minority.

Would you prefer to see sharia law imposed around the entire world?

 

[beenie]

[youtube]pQzuFrMRA3M[/youtube]
YouTube - Apostasy in Islam:Richard Dawkins extracts some truth from a Muslim

here is a video, at the end you will see what even a muslim teacher has to say about Apostasy in islam, and what they teach children happens when they leave the religion.

do you see christian fundamentalists blowing up buildings? terrorising the world? How do these fundamentalists get this from a book that is supposedly good?

is killing people who draw pictures of mohammad moral? this has occured, and i don't see christians killing people who oppose christianity, nearly exclusively it is muslims. HOW DO YOU EXPLAIN THIS?

...and we always base our beliefs on that of a misguided "muslim teacher". that's like saying all Christians should commit suicide because David Koresh, a "teacher of Christianity" said the Bible says to do that. the video is nonsense.

please. terrorists interpret what suits them to "blow up buildings".

no, Shariah law cannot be implemented around the world. no Muslim i know is claiming it should be. "extremists" don't count.

 

[jonman122]

[youtube]ZcJwRCv9g88[/youtube]

Heres what moderate muslims do instead.

 

[Cypress]

There is an article about abrogation in Islam on Wikipedia under Naskh (tafsir).
At the bottom of site there are some links, one directs to this forum dedicated to abrogation.

 

[Badran]

you argument is flawed. at one point muslims were exclusively in the middle east, and at that point sharia law was all law for all muslims. Sharia law slowed tribal warfare and held the region in a state of peace by bringing the tribes together. However the laws that were imposed were far from moral, and Sharia law itself is not moral, just as the bible is not a moral book with solely moral teachings. And they do preach that apostasy is death, and that is what that video shows (go to the end and you'll see it)

You have pretty much not addressed any of the points i've made. Regardless, if your point is that sharia contains some immoral laws, i agree. And that is because the implementation of it, did not and is not most of the time, abiding by the Islamic teachings. I do not agree with all laws in sharia (as in they are not Islamic stuff for me and millions of others), because i believe some of it are not correct. But not to explain this extensively, the concept of sharia and how to be implemented is much more complicated than you think.

Other than cultists, Islam is literally the most physically dangerous religion that there is in this world. Regardless of whether it is a majority or a minority.

It is a minority, and that is not a point to be disregarded, it actually with the combination with two other points, nullifies such argument. That Islam is supposedly the most dangerous religion.

Would you prefer to see sharia law imposed around the entire world?

Absolutely not, and for so many reasons. The most important one, is that not all the world are muslims, so obviously, i not only do not have any kind of desire that they live under sharia law, but i would oppose such ridiculous idea.

Heres what moderate muslims do instead.

Oh Please, a guy making a video of himself and uploading it somewhere, and acting like a moron. Whats your point? What is this supposed to even remotely point out?

 

[Badran]

Heres what moderate muslims do instead.

By the way moderate muslims is not an accurate description when aiming to refer to muslims in general. Moderate is just a label. Muslims, are the ones you mean. There is however, others who approach Islam a little differently, and those would be called moderates. But the general rule for "good" muslims who correctly follow the teachings is not moderate or liberal muslims, they are just muslims. Extremists are the exception, not the rule, and therefore the rest of muslims don't need a label to identify as not such, merely muslims is the correct description.

 

[Kerr]

do you see christian fundamentalists blowing up buildings? terrorising the world?

I see them.
Christian terrorism - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

[Kerr]

[youtube]ZcJwRCv9g88[/youtube]

Heres what moderate muslims do instead.

So basically a video of a nut who is claimed to be a moderate Muslim on youtube is supposed to prove anything?

 

[jonman122]

I see them.
Christian terrorism - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

its funny, if you had actually read any of that it was about christians burning down their own houses in protest, or things that are from 1572. Not much of anything modern, and nothing even close to the extent that it has been taken by islam. Islam is the most violent religion there is in modern times, the qur'an is a violent book, you can say it's good all you want or you could say the bible is good but really thats just because you're reading the parts you like and leaving out the parts about killing infidels or apostates (which they do in islamic countries under sharia law, they kill ALL apostates from islam, and they teach that if you leave the muslim faith you will be killed.) Really muslims outside of a country that uses sharia law, or muslims who say sharia law is dumb, aren't muslims at all. it's like saying you're a christian but you don't believe jesus has ever existed. Logically, it makes absolutely no sense. The qur'an is very clear on what you should do :\

 

[YmirGF]

...and we always base our beliefs on that of a misguided "muslim teacher". that's like saying all Christians should commit suicide because David Koresh, a "teacher of Christianity" said the Bible says to do that. the video is nonsense.

I tend to agree, however, you have highlighted a point that many non-Muslims do not quite appreciate and that is that there is no de facto clergy in Islam, even though may "leaders" are referred to as "clerics". This absence of leadership creates considerable confusion in the minds of non-believers who are used to somewhat authentic positions being spoken of by members of an ordained "clergy".

please. terrorists interpret what suits them to "blow up buildings".

Indeed, however, currently Muslims seem to have this one down rather well. I'm curious, in non-Muslim countries, the likes of Fred Phelps and David Koresh are seen as lunatics. Can the same be said in the Muslim world about the so-called Muslim extremists? Are they, by and large, considered to be nutcases?

no, Shariah law cannot be implemented around the world.

All I can say is, thank god for that. What a horrible thing that would be.

no Muslim i know is claiming it should be. "extremists" don't count.

Oddly, I have seen a poll, right here on RF, that tells the opposite. The only respondents to the poll voted to Sharia law. No Muslim voted against the implementation of Sharia and it was suggested that no Muslim could be against the implementation of Sharia. My guess is that you have some pretty liberal friends.

 

[Badran]

Oddly, I have seen a poll, right here on RF, that tells the opposite. The only respondents to the poll voted to Sharia law. No Muslim voted against the implementation of Sharia and it was suggested that no Muslim could be against the implementation of Sharia. My guess is that you have some pretty liberal friends.

The appliance she's referring to, is different than the appliance of your thread.

 

[jonman122]

The appliance she's referring to, is different than the appliance of your thread.

does this at all sound similar to what that guy said in the video, how it's perfectly fine to lie to infidels? I don't see much of an explanation here.. Having sharia law "implemented" is a pretty straightforward type of idea...

 

[Badran]

does this at all sound similar to what that guy said in the video, how it's perfectly fine to lie to infidels? I don't see much of an explanation here.. Having sharia law "implemented" is a pretty straightforward type of idea...

Are you saying that i'm lying? Without even having any idea of what i'm referring him to?

Once again, knowing what you're talking about is always helpful. The thread YmirGF is referring to, was discussing applying sharia arbitrary on only muslims, who also want to use it. As in it is not a law, it does not compete with the law of the country, nor does it apply to non-muslims, or muslims who don't want it to, under the supervision of the law of that country. Which is completely different than the preposterous suggestion made in the video in the OP, or the question you asked earlier, which i already answered with a no.

I hope this time you actually respond to what i'm saying, instead of neglecting it and then restating what you already said, without adding any substance.

 

[neves]

And what do the rest of you think?

[youtube]ZHdMlT3E7cg[/youtube]
YouTube - 3 Things You Should Know About Islam ما يجب أن تعرفه عن الإسلام

another lame bull vid...

 

[Kerr]

its funny, if you had actually read any of that it was about christians burning down their own houses in protest, or things that are from 1572. Not much of anything modern, and nothing even close to the extent that it has been taken by islam. Islam is the most violent religion there is in modern times, the qur'an is a violent book, you can say it's good all you want or you could say the bible is good but really thats just because you're reading the parts you like and leaving out the parts about killing infidels or apostates (which they do in islamic countries under sharia law, they kill ALL apostates from islam, and they teach that if you leave the muslim faith you will be killed.) Really muslims outside of a country that uses sharia law, or muslims who say sharia law is dumb, aren't muslims at all. it's like saying you're a christian but you don't believe jesus has ever existed. Logically, it makes absolutely no sense. The qur'an is very clear on what you should do :\

You may have missed out a link there, so I will give it to you here.
Anti-abortion violence - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Maybe not the same thing as 9/11, just saying it exists. Destructive people are not created by religion, they are just another aspect of humanity.

 

[Kerr]

its funny, if you had actually read any of that it was about christians burning down their own houses in protest, or things that are from 1572. Not much of anything modern, and nothing even close to the extent that it has been taken by islam. Islam is the most violent religion there is in modern times, the qur'an is a violent book, you can say it's good all you want or you could say the bible is good but really thats just because you're reading the parts you like and leaving out the parts about killing infidels or apostates (which they do in islamic countries under sharia law, they kill ALL apostates from islam, and they teach that if you leave the muslim faith you will be killed.) Really muslims outside of a country that uses sharia law, or muslims who say sharia law is dumb, aren't muslims at all. it's like saying you're a christian but you don't believe jesus has ever existed. Logically, it makes absolutely no sense. The qur'an is very clear on what you should do :\

Maybe you should pull your head out of your *** and realize the world does not care about what makes sense to you.

 

[jonman122]

Maybe you should pull your head out of your *** and realize the world does not care about what makes sense to you.

so are you denying that islam is the most physically destructive religion on the world at this moment?

 

[jonman122]

Are you saying that i'm lying? Without even having any idea of what i'm referring him to?

Once again, knowing what you're talking about is always helpful. The thread YmirGF is referring to, was discussing applying sharia arbitrary on only muslims, who also want to use it. As in it is not a law, it does not compete with the law of the country, nor does it apply to non-muslims, or muslims who don't want it to, under the supervision of the law of that country. Which is completely different than the preposterous suggestion made in the video in the OP, or the question you asked earlier, which i already answered with a no.

I hope this time you actually respond to what i'm saying, instead of neglecting it and then restating what you already said, without adding any substance.

once again, all muslims want to knowingly kill any apostate? they want to be able to kill people who draw images of mohammad? You realize this already occurs, in every country that holds to sharia law... EVERY ONE.

why are people here thinking that i should give muslims special treatment and not speak the truth?

 

[.lava]

once again, all muslims want to knowingly kill any apostate? they want to be able to kill people who draw images of mohammad? You realize this already occurs, in every country that holds to sharia law... EVERY ONE.

why are people here thinking that i should give muslims special treatment and not speak the truth?

actually, you are already giving Muslims "special" treatment

.