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What does the RF Muslim community make of this video?

DeitySlayer

President of Chindia
The Prophet said: "Amongst the nations before you there was a man who got a wound, and growing impatient (with its pain), he took a knife and cut his hand with it and the blood did not stop till he died. Allah said, 'My Slave hurried to bring death upon himself so I have forbidden him (to enter) Paradise.' "
Sahih Bukhari 4.56.669
Oh well there's a surpise. Suicide bombing isn't actually Islamic, because suicide is condemned by Allah.
 

Badran

Veteran Member
Premium Member
This is by far the best explanation of the Muslim terrorist situation I have ever read. His references to past history are accurate and clear. Not long, easy to understand, and well worth the read. The author of this email is said to be Dr. Emanuel Tanay, a well-known and well-respected psychiatrist.
A German's View on Islam

.............

Lastly, anyone who doubts that the issue is serious and just deletes this email without sending it on, is contributing to the passiveness that allows the problems to expand. So, extend yourself a bit and send this on and on and on! Let us hope that thousands, world-wide, read this and think about it, and send it on - before it's too late.

Only one part about this i agree with, and that is extremists are very dangerous, and in this case Muslim extremists are indeed very dangerous, and shouldn't be taken lightly.

However, there are lots of things that i disagree with:

1) His appeal to supposed similar situations in history, is far from accurate. As all of them without exception are dealing with individual countries that this happened in. As in, situations where a country, where taken over, such the case of Nazis. Whereas Islam is a religion that is spread all over the world, containing an extremely big number of people spread all over these countries, which have different cultural and political conditions. They can not control or hijack the religion followers as they are spread all over the world. Nationality is different than religion. In Germany's case for example, those are people which have in common that they all are germans, they are born or live in germany. When the Nazis took over that country, they took over germans naturally as they control the country. However, in the case of Islam, this is a religion, not a country. You don't take them over or control the followers in the same fashion, and its extremely more difficult if not utterly impossible to do so, because of the point that they are spread all over the world. Also, he claimed that we are already ruled at this point in history, which is not true in any sense, particularly the ones he's comparing this to.

2) Most people, of any kind are not active, or are moderate somehow. Most people do not influence the world or make a change, so naturally the majority of muslims will be so too. But, he generalized. Most certainly not all Muslims are silent or not doing anything to fight the terrorists. Also lots of the Muslims who don't do anything to fight this, still openly condemn the actions of those extremists. So, we're not silent, and they are not taking over us in anyway shape or form. They are not hijacking the religion.

3) Yes they are the ones (the extremists) bombing and killing people etc... So what? of course they are. That doesn't mean they have the "lead". The mere fact that they do this, doesn't indicate so, not to mention that this has happened, and still happens with other religions as well. Religions and groups in general naturally contain extreme factors, and bad elements.

4) Naturally also, the actions of these extremists attract much more attention. Which is more national news worthy, a muslim group helping people in various ways, or a couple of suicide bombers hitting some place in the US for example?

5) Afghanistan, a country in which extremism has made it to the power, is experiencing this due to political reasons, not religious ones. So this isn't an indicator that muslims are being "hijacked" or "ruled" by the extremists in general.

6) This part:

We are told again and again by 'experts' and 'talking heads' that Islam is the religion of peace and that the vast majority of Muslims just want to live in peace. Although this unqualified assertion may be true, it is entirely irrelevant. It is meaningless fluff, meant to make us feel better

Has two problems:

a) Him saying that it is an unqualified assertion, and that it may be true, doesn't indicate good intentions on his part, neither does his tone in general.

b) I don't care to make anyone feel better. May be thats why experts say it, but i want to clarify that when muslims defend themselves, at least when i do, its not to make anyone feel better. I'm merely stating the obvious.

7) Finally, the point that DeitySlayer has made. That the actions of extremists very easily and obviously contradicts with the teachings of Islam. At least, if you want to call it their version of Islam, fine. But its not the same version that the majority of Muslims follow.
 
you argument is flawed. at one point muslims were exclusively in the middle east, and at that point sharia law was all law for all muslims. Sharia law slowed tribal warfare and held the region in a state of peace by bringing the tribes together. However the laws that were imposed were far from moral, and Sharia law itself is not moral, just as the bible is not a moral book with solely moral teachings. And they do preach that apostasy is death, and that is what that video shows (go to the end and you'll see it)

Other than cultists, Islam is literally the most physically dangerous religion that there is in this world. Regardless of whether it is a majority or a minority.

Would you prefer to see sharia law imposed around the entire world?

You are right about everything here except for 1 thing.... All religious people are cultists, It's just that say Christians and Muslims are a much larger group, thus seen as not as crazy as what you would call 'cultists'.

What's funny is that Muslims really don't talk to outsiders to much or give you the run around.... I have went to mosques of all kinds to ask questions and have had this happen every time.

On one occasion I did meet an atheist like myself who was once Islamic. He had introduced me to everything this video said and than some. People really have no idea how much every day Islamic leaders trick their followers into doing their bidding.

I have also grazed the Qu'ran as well to find out more..... there is not one thing in this video that's not true about the Qu'ran either and whoever put it together did their homework for sure.
 

beenie

Veteran Member
Staff member
Premium Member
blah blah blah to the first part of your post

I have also grazed the Qu'ran as well to find out more..... there is not one thing in this video that's not true about the Qu'ran either and whoever put it together did their homework for sure.

they failed on their homework.
 

Badran

Veteran Member
Premium Member
You are right about everything here except for 1 thing.... All religious people are cultists, It's just that say Christians and Muslims are a much larger group, thus seen as not as crazy as what you would call 'cultists'.

What's funny is that Muslims really don't talk to outsiders to much or give you the run around.... I have went to mosques of all kinds to ask questions and have had this happen every time.

On one occasion I did meet an atheist like myself who was once Islamic. He had introduced me to everything this video said and than some. People really have no idea how much every day Islamic leaders trick their followers into doing their bidding.

I have also grazed the Qu'ran as well to find out more..... there is not one thing in this video that's not true about the Qu'ran either and whoever put it together did their homework for sure.

Whats really funny about your post is that you only provided a claim that the video is accurate, accompanied by some supposed personal stories.

Do you have any intentions of trying to back up your claim? Or should i just take your word for it?
 

Kodanshi

StygnosticA
Funny thing is, when I was watching this video, I was rolling my eyes at the spin put on it, but I was also saying “Yes, true” to his references and sources.
 

Badran

Veteran Member
Premium Member
Funny thing is, when I was watching this video, I was rolling my eyes at the spin put on it, but I was also saying “Yes, true” to his references and sources.

I didn't notice any references or sources.
 

astarath

Well-Known Member
Are all the nations where Sharia law is enforced filled and ruled with extremists?

If yes, where is the outcry from Islam to seperate themselves from the extremist factions (i.e. Reformation of the Catholic Church)

If no, why should countries that do no propogate death penalties, torture, or restrictions on religious freedom be open to allowing the rule of Sharia Law?
 

beenie

Veteran Member
Staff member
Premium Member
Are all the nations where Sharia law is enforced filled and ruled with extremists?

If yes, where is the outcry from Islam to seperate themselves from the extremist factions (i.e. Reformation of the Catholic Church)

If no, why should countries that do no propogate death penalties, torture, or restrictions on religious freedom be open to allowing the rule of Sharia Law?

Sharia law is not properly enforced in any nation. it has been corrupted and twisted to serve the needs of the powers-that-be.

many Muslims are separating themselves from the extremist factions, they are just never featured on FOX news or the like.
 

autonomous1one1

Well-Known Member
Premium Member
Only one part about this i agree with, and that is extremists are very dangerous, and in this case Muslim extremists are indeed very dangerous, and shouldn't be taken lightly.

However, there are lots of things that i disagree with:

1) His appeal to supposed similar situations in history, is far from accurate. As all of them without exception are dealing with individual countries that this happened in. As in, situations where a country, where taken over, such the case of Nazis. Whereas Islam is a religion that is spread all over the world, containing an extremely big number of people spread all over these countries, which have different cultural and political conditions. They can not control or hijack the religion followers as they are spread all over the world. Nationality is different than religion. In Germany's case for example, those are people which have in common that they all are germans, they are born or live in germany. When the Nazis took over that country, they took over germans naturally as they control the country. However, in the case of Islam, this is a religion, not a country. You don't take them over or control the followers in the same fashion, and its extremely more difficult if not utterly impossible to do so, because of the point that they are spread all over the world. Also, he claimed that we are already ruled at this point in history, which is not true in any sense, particularly the ones he's comparing this to.

2) Most people,.....(removed for brevity)
Thank you, Badran, for responding. You have many good points and your #1 is an excellent one that often has been overlooked. If you come up with more, please post them.
 
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TashaN

Veteran Member
Premium Member
Sharia law is not properly enforced in any nation. it has been corrupted and twisted to serve the needs of the powers-that-be.

many Muslims are separating themselves from the extremist factions, they are just never featured on FOX news or the like.

Sharia law doesn't exist? Just so you know, Sharia law is implemented in Saudi Arabia and some other countries, and it's implemented *partially* in most of Muslim countries.

Sharia law in itself can't be corrupted because Sharia is nothing but the rulings of Allah and his Apostle, but it can be abused by some regimes.

I know Saudi Arabia has a bad human rights record, but that is not due to Sharia itself, but rather, on how it's being implemented because cultural norms have a huge impact in Saudian society.
 

Badran

Veteran Member
Premium Member
Are all the nations where Sharia law is enforced filled and ruled with extremists?

Non of them are filled with extremists, of course not. However, some of them are ruled by extremists, such as Afghanistan.

The point though, is that the implementation of sharia in the countries that do implement it, is not approved by most Muslims. As in, like any other government, they are not complying or doing what should be done, and are contradicting the teachings of Islam (from which sharia is supposed to be derived) in a lot of their rulings and policies.

If yes, where is the outcry from Islam to seperate themselves from the extremist factions (i.e. Reformation of the Catholic Church)

If by extremists factions you mean for example the Taliban, we do that all the time.

If no, why should countries that do no propogate death penalties, torture, or restrictions on religious freedom be open to allowing the rule of Sharia Law?

They shouldn't. Why should any non-muslim country apply sharia?

However, if your talking about sharia arbitration that occurs in some countries, thats a different story. As it doesn't apply as a law, or a full appliance. It is merely an alternative for minor disputes, such as divorce, inheritance and so on.
 

beenie

Veteran Member
Staff member
Premium Member
Sharia law doesn't exist? Just so you know, Sharia law is implemented in Saudi Arabia and some other countries, and it's implemented *partially* in most of Muslim countries.

Sharia law in itself can't be corrupted because Sharia is nothing but the rulings of Allah and his Apostle, but it can be abused by some regimes.

I know Saudi Arabia has a bad human rights record, but that is not due to Sharia itself, but rather, on how it's being implemented because cultural norms have a huge impact in Saudian society.

Tasha :)

Did you read my post thoroughly? I said there is no nation that has implemented Sharia law PROPERLY. human rights are a basic right in Sharia, and since Saudi Arabia is falling way short of that, then Sharia law is not implemented properly.
 

YmirGF

Bodhisattva in Recovery
The video is definitely over the top. What is amusing is that the creators of the video are cherry picking to arrive at their points. They covered things well in the first 30 seconds and that should serve to neuter the final 7 1/2 minutes. The point is that there are wide ranging opinions about every point that was brought up. Sadly, Islam is far more open to interpretation than many would have us believe. Both the "Islam is a religion of Peace" camp, as well as the "Death to the infidels" camp are not being completely honest. Islam is a bit more aggressive than the "moderates" would have us believe, but it isn't as aggressive as Osama bin Hidin' would like us to think.

Oh well, the 2 cents of a knuckle-dragging, hate-mongering, ignorant, mentally challenged, greasy Islamophobe...
 

beenie

Veteran Member
Staff member
Premium Member
The video is definitely over the top. What is amusing is that the creators of the video are cherry picking to arrive at their points. They covered things well in the first 30 seconds and that should serve to neuter the final 7 1/2 minutes.

agree. however, if they had stopped at 30 seconds, they would succeed at fear-mongering. :p

The point is that there are wide ranging opinions about every point that was brought up. Sadly, Islam is far more open to interpretation than many would have us believe. Both the "Islam is a religion of Peace" camp, as well as the "Death to the infidels" camp are not being completely honest. Islam is a bit more aggressive than the "moderates" would have us believe, but it isn't as aggressive as Osama bin Hidin' would like us to think.

agree with this, and the bolded is the biggest problem Muslims face today.

the only point i'd like to make is that i DO like the fact that there are mulitple interpretations of Qur'an/Hadith...it allows us to use our individual discretion in making life decisions. the last thing we want is everyone thinking the exact same. it's when the extremes (on either end of the spectrum) start in with their hateful-speak and holier-than-thou judgmental babble...and start acting on it and affecting others that all the problems start. extremism causes these problems in any venue; Muslim extremists just seem to be the loudest at present. :(


Oh well, the 2 cents of a knuckle-dragging, hate-mongering, ignorant, mentally challenged, greasy Islamophobe...

i didn't find anything hate-mongering, etc., in your post. :p
 
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Badran

Veteran Member
Premium Member
agree with this, and the bolded is the biggest problem Muslims face today.

You mean that you think the biggest problem that face Muslims today is that we're not being honest?

I'm not sure i understand you correctly :)

However if so, what is it that we're not being completely honest about?
 
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