Do you know how to engage an argument? If so, do it in a way in which there is more than 10 words and articulate your position so that I can engage.
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What evidence for God
- Thread starter nonbeliever_92
- Start date
Do you know how to engage an argument? If so, do it in a way in which there is more than 10 words and articulate your position so that I can engage.
McBell
Unbound
You start out right off the bat assuming that the universe is created.
Care to support that premise?
Ummm.... how about all of modern cosmology as a science discipline? Why do you think there is an age of the universe at around 14 billion years old?
McBell
Unbound
How does that even imply a creator?
Sigh, you gotta read my posts man. This is already answered, engage with that, no need repeating myself.
McBell
Unbound
It is not my fault that you started with an assumption that the universe is created and then try arguing that the only alternative to being created is being randomly created.
This is a false dilemma.
waitasec
Veteran Member
Herman Tripleton
Member
I am pretty sure you have to either start with the premise that the universe was created or that it was not created, do you not?
If you start from the premise that it was created, what evidence exists to support that argument?
Well, first you gotta start off with some simple facts:
One, every thing in the known universe was created from and by some other thing.
Two, no thing in the known universe can create itself.
Three, guhzillions of things in the known universe exist.
or
If you start from the premise that it was not created, what evidence exists to support that?
Well, the universe has only existed for 14+ Billion Earth Years, so if it didn't exist before that then it must have been created. Wait. Let me try again.
The Universe has existed for all time. Well, the microwave radiation proves thats not the case, so...
Naw, there really isn't a logical argument for the universe not to have been created. The universe is a thing and all things were created.
Now as to the creator. Why not just agree to being created first before you try to figure the nature of all that.
If you start from the premise that it was created, what evidence exists to support that argument?
Well, first you gotta start off with some simple facts:
One, every thing in the known universe was created from and by some other thing.
Two, no thing in the known universe can create itself.
Three, guhzillions of things in the known universe exist.
or
If you start from the premise that it was not created, what evidence exists to support that?
Well, the universe has only existed for 14+ Billion Earth Years, so if it didn't exist before that then it must have been created. Wait. Let me try again.
The Universe has existed for all time. Well, the microwave radiation proves thats not the case, so...
Naw, there really isn't a logical argument for the universe not to have been created. The universe is a thing and all things were created.
Now as to the creator. Why not just agree to being created first before you try to figure the nature of all that.
outhouse
Atheistically
What I stated does not mean there is evidence for the non existance of god NOR the existance.
You have to prove god exist as OP is asking you to do.
since you cannot answer how the universe came about 14 billions years ago proves nothing one way or the other.
Try again and do what OP is asking
do you have any evidence or not??
chinu
chinu
Once this same question was asked by the person to another.
Another Person: For this you have to take bath with me in this sacred river for fifteen minitues,
The Person: Ok, why not its easy, but i cannot swim.
Another person: Don't worry i am with you, am a good swimmer.
When he gone in the river to take bath with him, instantly the another person pulled him where the river was deep enough and pulled him inside the water, now the person started shouting to save his life, but still the another person was pulling him inside.
Finally after some time the person started shouting, O God !!! Please save my Life.
_/\_ Chinu.
The Neo Nerd
Well-Known Member
Ahh the old "there are no atheists in fox holes" argument.
Human weakness is by no means evidence for the existence of some deity.
-Q
Human weakness is by no means evidence for the existence of some deity.
-Q
Orbital
Member
@chinu
The reaction of exclaiming 'god' in urgent situations has nothing to do with it's truth value. This has to do with the history of speech and how such a response became popular. In case you have not noticed, most of the population is religious, this aspect of society is bound to have an impact on speech somehow.
If you would throw me in a river like that, I would probably not shout anything religious, but many words that tend to be censored on television. This is just because of my speech habits.
Overall I would doubt that most of the people using sayings like 'oh my god' are actually thinking of the religious idea of god. It gets thrown around so much that eventually it changes it's definition. Oh god! = shocking experience.
If your evidence for some sort of entity that surrounds us and resides in some supernatural dimension is that humans say 'oh god' a lot, then I am afraid to say that not many people will accept your conclusion that such an entity exists.
The reaction of exclaiming 'god' in urgent situations has nothing to do with it's truth value. This has to do with the history of speech and how such a response became popular. In case you have not noticed, most of the population is religious, this aspect of society is bound to have an impact on speech somehow.
If you would throw me in a river like that, I would probably not shout anything religious, but many words that tend to be censored on television. This is just because of my speech habits.
Overall I would doubt that most of the people using sayings like 'oh my god' are actually thinking of the religious idea of god. It gets thrown around so much that eventually it changes it's definition. Oh god! = shocking experience.
If your evidence for some sort of entity that surrounds us and resides in some supernatural dimension is that humans say 'oh god' a lot, then I am afraid to say that not many people will accept your conclusion that such an entity exists.
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Orbital
Member
Usually I just respond with this quote from James Morrow
"There are no atheists in foxholes isnt an argument against atheism, its an argument against foxholes.
The Neo Nerd
Well-Known Member
Allow me to explain why this argument is fallacious.
Boiled down to it's basic components your argument states two things:
a. That you do not under stand how the universe came into being.
b. This inability indicates that some form of deity created the universe.
Therefore you argument proves two things:
a. You do not know how the universe came into being.
b. You are arrogant enough to think you are in possession of the length, breadth and width of all knowledge.
So what the OP is actually looking for is evidence for the existence of your god. Your argument, even if it wasn't logically fallacious, is not evidence.
-Q
mohammed_beiruti
Active Member
do you think that universe system is a sudden system, and it became as it is now by chance?
Orbital
Member
Yes, everything came to be by 'chance', even if there was an entity dictating this even, it still happened by chance.
If you can provide me with anything that is not by chance, I would be amazed.
If your definition of chance is that it happened without an entity dictating it, then yes it could have happened by chance.
Look at the Dharmic/Pantheistic version of "God"
God is everything, everywhere. Your existence itself is evidence. Something can not come into existence from nothing. There has always been something, that something is "God". You are that something, you are divine in origin. Creator and creation are the same, only limited by design. Look beyond the limits, see your potential. You yourself are the only evidence you will ever need.
chinu
chinu
Than what is my Loss, They have to bear their Own.
The relation with God starts only with the Trust and ends In the God-itself, not anywhere else,
Till anybody becomes one with "Him", The only thing to devlop is Trust.
Afterthat it becomes like the suger of dumb, who cannot tell the taste, if still somebody is claiming ,
There is no shortage of Arguears on this earth, they know only to eat and sleep and very clearly i know how much they care for God.
_/\_ Chinu.
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Orbital
Member
Your existence itself is only evidence that you exist, it makes no statements of its origin.
If your only definition of god is that is it 'everything', then I don't think anybody asked to to provide evidence for that. But attaching ANY other characteristics to this god would need evidence. For example that this god that is everything is consciously creating human beings. That aspect would need evidence and that is exactly what the OP is asking for. Not evidence for 'everything'.
Orbital
Member
Let me rephrase what I said:
If you actually apply this absolutely absurd standard of evidence to other aspects to life you would come up with the silliest conclusions ever and they would not reflect reality.
You have gone from: People say 'God' a lot, to therefore 'God' exists.
I have given you an explanation to why this is a common expressions used in shocking experiences, but yet you still agree with your previous fallacious statement.