What evidence for God

[tumbleweed41]

All motion is relative.
Of course it is.

For the singularity to be truly singular....no secondary point is allowed.
No opportunity for numbers....no movement.

Once the secondary exists...so too the infinite number of 'points' in between.

Any two points become reference for rotation.

However.....expansion is not necessarily the cause for rotation....

What rotation?

 

[Thief]

What rotation?

really?

 

[ImmortalFlame]

And all without answering the question!
Flinging charges and accusations, the most widely used tactic of atheists, cannot take the place of convincing refutation.
That was no lecture. I merely asked a question.
With no higher cause in the picture and beasts for foreparents, how can any individual atheist/evolutionist obtain such noble attributes?

No more dodging - Try answering the question.

Okay then: Because we have a society, and we have brains, and our brains enable us to see and understand how to act in the best interests of society and, in particular, those we care about.

Good enough?

 

[PolyHedral]

Actually, because time is a measure of movement....
There would be a 'point'...of singularity....wherein movement does not exist.

It does not make sense for time to begin. After all, surely a beginning implies time already exists?

The universe cannot 'rotate' without something outside the universe for it to rotate in respect to.

It can have non-zero total angular momentum, though. However, I have very little idea of what Thief is talking about, since we don't know much about the angular momentum of the whole universe.

 

[Thief]

It does not make sense for time to begin. After all, surely a beginning implies time already exists?

It can have non-zero total angular momentum, though. However, I have very little idea of what Thief is talking about, since we don't know much about the angular momentum of the whole universe.

Let's see....

total...as all encompassing?...universal?

non-zero....all numbers?...all at once?

angular....even though secondary points would be required...
and the singularity is ....singularly.....'unique'.

momentum...implying movement exists before relative points are created?

You do indeed have very little idea what I am talking about.

Abandon your numbers and think.

 

[tumbleweed41]

What rotation?

really?

Yes. Really.
Like I said.
Rotation in respect to what?
Or perhaps better questions.
Does the Universe have angular momentum?
What is the axis of this momentum?
What is the preferential 'direction'?
Why do we not see galaxies moving in the direction of the supposed rotation having a higher component of centrifugal force than those galaxies traveling in the opposite direction to this rotation?


The leading model of the Universe, (there are many) is the FRW metric, which assumes homogeneity and isotropy from a singularity.
There are also models that assume rotation. These models, however, lack compelling evidence.

 

[waitasec]

How can you prove that?

Canaan - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

There have been over two hundred attempts to match the biblical chronology to dates in history, two of the more influential being the traditional Jewish dates (Abraham lived 1812 BCE to 1637 BCE), and those of the 17th century Archbishop James Ussher (1976 BCE to 1801 BCE); but the most that can be said with some degree of certainty is that the standard Hebrew text of Genesis places Abraham in the earlier part of the second millennium BCE.[10]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abraham


Bronze Age
(3300–1200 BCE)

Faithfulness to a higher cause brings dignity and integrity.

are insinuating nonbelievers do not have these qualities?

would you say it applies to those who's higher calling is to blow themselves up in a crowd...or to deny people the use of condoms thusly perpetuating misery by equating contraceptives to murder?

Evolution's animal ancestors do/did not possess such qualities.

certain animals have empathetic qualities

With no higher cause in the picture and beasts for foreparents, how can any individual atheist/evolutionist obtain such noble attributes?

are you claiming moral superiority because god is on your side?
see this doesn't work...for there is nothing that a believer can do that a non believer can't

 

[Thief]

Yes. Really.
Like I said.
Rotation in respect to what?
Or perhaps better questions.
Does the Universe have angular momentum?
What is the axis of this momentum?
What is the preferential 'direction'?
Why do we not see galaxies moving in the direction of the supposed rotation having a higher component of centrifugal force than those galaxies traveling in the opposite direction to this rotation?


The leading model of the Universe, (there are many) is the FRW metric, which assumes homogeneity and isotropy from a singularity.
There are also models that assume rotation. These models, however, lack compelling evidence.

You gotta learn to drop the numbers.

 

[wilsoncole]

Church of the Flying Spaghetti Monster

Sorry - I don't do silly.

And remember, according to the Big Bang, there was no point in time where the universe did not exist.

False.

(\__/)
( ‘ .‘ )
>(^)<

Wilson

 

[nonbeliever_92]

Sorry - I don't do silly.

Well you definitely aren't doing accurate.

 

[wilsoncole]

I have shown you where your "nothing from nothing" claim is flawed.
And your replies keep emphasizing it.

Oh! - Now its "Nothing From Nothing" and not "Something from Something."
Glad to see you mend the error of your ways.
You're welcome!

That you continue to revel in your ignorance reflects poorly on your faith.
As I have said before..

Special Pleading again.
You're stuck in a rut, bub.

I find that those with a need to prove God have a lack faith in God.

You can't prove that by my unrelenting perseverance - right?

And those who ignore reality in order to prove their concept of God have little in value to say.

And yet - you keep typing away in continuous response.
How come?
I have a feeling that you read EVERYTHING I write.

How you gonna prove me wrong?


(\__/)
( ‘ .‘ )
>(^)<

Wilson

 

[nonbeliever_92]

Still no evidence.

 

[wilsoncole]

Good and evil are not physical concepts, only heuristics. They exist only as generalizations of cost-benefit analyses.

That is nonsense!
Would you be making such evaluations as a home-invader holds you at gunpoint while another pounds your daughter's face into a pulp?

Bad people are, by definition, not good.

Duh!

But they doesn't mean that they cannot be correct. If Hitler told you, "2+2=4", he'd be right, regardless of what disagreements you have with him.

That is irrelevant!

As I said, there is no point in time where nothing existed. The fact that time itself has a starting point is only tangential to this.

You even manage to twist your own words.
That is not what you said. See Reply # 474.
These are your exact words:
"And remember, according to the Big Bang, there was no point in time where the universe did not exist."

And THAT is not true.


(\__/)
( ‘ .‘ )
>(^)<

Wilson

 

[wilsoncole]

Still no evidence.

Still in denial.



(\__/)
( ‘ .‘ )
>(^)<

Wilson

 

[nonbeliever_92]

Would you be making such evaluations as a home-invader holds you at gunpoint while another pounds your daughter's face into a pulp?



"And remember, according to the Big Bang, there was no point in time where the universe did not exist."

And THAT is not true.

1) You need to learn the differneces between subjectivity and objectivity.
2) You need to study up on the Big Bang Theory.
3) You need to listen.

 

[PolyHedral]

You gotta learn to drop the numbers.

Numbers describe everything, eventually.

Sorry - I don't do silly.

Silly can be valid, and is in surprisingly many cases.

False.

The Big Bang theory states that the entire universe condenses into a singularity at the first point in time. However, if you consider this first point in time, it is obvious that the universe already exists. Hence, there is no point in time when the universe, or time, does not exist.

That is nonsense!
Would you be making such evaluations as a home-invader holds you at gunpoint while another pounds your daughter's face into a pulp?

I would be finding a solution to the problem. Of course, since the problem is such a high priority I can't spare the time to think about it, I must take shortcuts. That's what "good" and "evil" are for.

That is irrelevant!

You cannot judge correctness based on morality, which is what that Bible verse implies you should do.

"And remember, according to the Big Bang, there was no point in time where the universe did not exist."

And THAT is not true.

Time is a component of the universe. It must be true.

 

[wilsoncole]

Okay then: Because we have a society, and we have brains, and our brains enable us to see and understand how to act in the best interests of society and, in particular, those we care about.

Good enough?

Nope! That is just noble talk. You have to face reality. Human society is on a death march. Deadlier weapons, higher prices, overwhelming corruption, political and social unrest, failed economic systems, unprecedented violence, unchecked pollution, modern slavery, piracy on the rise, vanishing security, dwindling potable water supplies, rising unemployment and tempers.

People opt for what is in THEIR best interests and they do it consistently. Looking out for number one is the credo by which most people live. That sets the stage for selfishness and greed which is not in the "best interests of society." Could it be the "beast" that you claim is in them? It is the story of this dying and confused world. Following its ways is not working.

Why the dismal failure?

HUMANS DO NOT HAVE THE ABILITY TO GOVERN THEMSELVES PROPERLY.
“I well know, O Jehovah, that to earthling man his way does not belong. It does not belong to man who is walking even to direct his step.. . .” (Jeremiah 10:23)

There is a better way.
Not the way of the church - they're just as corrupt.
It is a way that is leading to a bright new world - after this one has been completely overhauled.
No more human rulers. No more corruption and wars. No more dying children. No more starvation and inequality. Run by a government that will never pass away.
That government is on the way and it is unstoppable!

“And in the days of those kings the God of heaven will set up a kingdom that will never be brought to ruin. And the kingdom itself will not be passed on to any other people. It will crush and put an end to all these kingdoms, and it itself will stand to times indefinite;” (Daniel 2:44)

The invitation to be a part of that beneficial system is still open - but not for much longer.


(\__/)
( ‘ .‘ )
>(^)<

Wilson

 

[outhouse]

The invitation to be a part of that beneficial system is still open - but not for much longer.

special pleading

 

[ImmortalFlame]

Nope! That is just noble talk. You have to face reality. Human society is on a death march. Deadlier weapons, higher prices, overwhelming corruption, political and social unrest, failed economic systems, unprecedented violence, unchecked pollution, modern slavery, piracy on the rise, vanishing security, dwindling potable water supplies, rising unemployment and tempers.

Nice to see your religion keeps you from being cynical.

Also, you asked for the source of human nobility, now you're saying that because bad things exist it somehow cancels out this answer. You're shifting the goalposts, Wilson.

People opt for what is in THEIR best interests and they do it consistently. Looking out for number one is the credo by which most people live. That sets the stage for selfishness and greed which is not in the "best interests of society." Could it be the "beast" that you claim is in them? It is the story of this dying and confused world. Following its ways is not working.

Why the dismal failure?

Because a lot of people are douches. And a lot of those douches are religious.

HUMANS DO NOT HAVE THE ABILITY TO GOVERN THEMSELVES PROPERLY.
“I well know, O Jehovah, that to earthling man his way does not belong. It does not belong to man who is walking even to direct his step.. . .” (Jeremiah 10:23)

There is a better way.
Not the way of the church - they're just as corrupt.
It is a way that is leading to a bright new world - after this one has been completely overhauled.
No more human rulers. No more corruption and wars. No more dying children. No more starvation and inequality. Run by a government that will never pass away.
That government is on the way and it is unstoppable!

“And in the days of those kings the God of heaven will set up a kingdom that will never be brought to ruin. And the kingdom itself will not be passed on to any other people. It will crush and put an end to all these kingdoms, and it itself will stand to times indefinite;” (Daniel 2:44)

The invitation to be a part of that beneficial system is still open - but not for much longer.

Interesting. So when will singups start for the cult of Wilson? Will there be a mass suicide?

 

[tumbleweed41]

Oh! - Now its "Nothing From Nothing" and not "Something from Something."
Glad to see you mend the error of your ways.
You're welcome!

Nothing comes from nothing.
Something comes from something.
The Universe is something, so it came from something.
That Something is God, who is exempt from the "Something from Something" argument.

Get over yourself and face facts.
You stick to the same tired phrase, and ignore the fact that you have exempted your own God from your "proof" of God.
You have only convinced yourself. Congratulations on your superb "logic".
You have proven God to yourself. That must have taken a lot of faith.