PolyHedral
Superabacus Mystic
Why are they in holy books, rather than other historical sources?
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What evidence for God
- Thread starter nonbeliever_92
- Start date
hopefulboy
Member
because some signs are completely fantastic specially in those times that u can not guess its creator is a human,and u can not compare historical sources with holy books
Orias
Left Hand Path
Ah, but Judaism isn't "God".
Of course they have, they still do in less than implicative ways
outhouse
Atheistically
no but in my eyes they are the creator of the original most true form of the abrahamic god
my point is that god started with them and spread from there. IT did not start with a deity talking to all parts of the earth and all people, magically only one race and one culture at one time/ish does this abrahamic god come into existance.
Orias
Left Hand Path
Ah, then you would be looking at Abraham himself, not the Jewish people.
To be more specific you would be looking at Issac.
And why you just calling out the Abrahamic "God" why not the more pragmatic and logical?
Actually, the term "God" existed almost 11,000 years before the rise of those silly Abrahamic faiths.
outhouse
Atheistically
because thats the one that i have studied and also it is the most popuar in which the major religions are based off of.
see i dont find that to be true in any sense
God - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
The earliest written form of the Germanic word god comes from the 6th century Christian Codex Argenteus.
Wombat
Active Member
First up....I refer you to the unmet, unanswered-
http://www.religiousforums.com/forum/2421319-post1036.html
Originally Posted by Wombat
And if it should come to pass/evolve that "the same god is evenly distributed globally" and the major living religious traditions recognised that the god worshiped is 'one God'......would think it would be solid proof there IS god?
I wouldn't......but surely you hold the inverse of your proposition to be true....?
Ah....I see....it must “start” as “proof”....it cannot ‘evolve’ as understanding and be recognized as “proof”.
Fascinating...................................and very handy.
first ancient hebrews started the abrahamic god.
An unsubstantiated proposition wide open to obvious and valid alternatives- the first and foremost being that pre Hebrew Animists recognised God....that “abrahamic god” only reflects our evolving understanding.
a thousand years later with people that already know the fables and history branch away into christianity with a proclaimed son of god.
then a few hundred years later after already knowing the same history the muslims start their religion.
Well done!...there ya go!...you have started to come to terms with and recognise the sequential nature of the worlds major living faiths raised way back in #1036! You have identified two of the sequential isolated blips on the religion timeline ....1......1.....1......1....1....1....
Now perhaps one day someone can explain why (unlike >any other< field of human endeavour) there has to be a gap- “a thousand years later” before “people that already know the fables and history branch away into” the next isolated and sequential living faith?
Atheists claim that humans love to “start”/invent their religions (for status, prophet and power) and many claim it’s easy to do so...and history is littered with the bones of thousands of attempts to do so.....so why do we never get two major living faiths “starting” in the same timeframe?
you want proof,
Nope. I’ve never said I wanted/expected “proof” of God.
I am well satisfied with the abundant and persuasive rational ‘evidence’ of God.
show me god went and talked to all different races and cultures at the same time and the same storys spread evenly.
Strange proof...sounds something akin to a Fundamentalist Creationist expecting “proof” of Evolution of life to be “all different life forms and species evolve at the same time and the same evolutionary stories/events spread evenly”.
Once more you may find it profitable to invert and examine your scenario and invite-
Show me a people/culture, among all the apparent/seeming “different races” that are in fact >One Race<...human...(just like One God huh ;-), that did not have an evolving notion of Spirit/God/afterlife........does that universality and simultaneity constitute “proof”?
You cannot and fail this exercise.
Given it was the “exercise” of laying on the couch envisaging non existent “different races” I failed to see the point of attempting an exercise that does not strengthen understanding.
http://www.religiousforums.com/forum/2421319-post1036.html
Originally Posted by Wombat
And if it should come to pass/evolve that "the same god is evenly distributed globally" and the major living religious traditions recognised that the god worshiped is 'one God'......would think it would be solid proof there IS god?
I wouldn't......but surely you hold the inverse of your proposition to be true....?
Ah....I see....it must “start” as “proof”....it cannot ‘evolve’ as understanding and be recognized as “proof”.
Fascinating...................................and very handy.
first ancient hebrews started the abrahamic god.
An unsubstantiated proposition wide open to obvious and valid alternatives- the first and foremost being that pre Hebrew Animists recognised God....that “abrahamic god” only reflects our evolving understanding.
a thousand years later with people that already know the fables and history branch away into christianity with a proclaimed son of god.
then a few hundred years later after already knowing the same history the muslims start their religion.
Well done!...there ya go!...you have started to come to terms with and recognise the sequential nature of the worlds major living faiths raised way back in #1036! You have identified two of the sequential isolated blips on the religion timeline ....1......1.....1......1....1....1....
Now perhaps one day someone can explain why (unlike >any other< field of human endeavour) there has to be a gap- “a thousand years later” before “people that already know the fables and history branch away into” the next isolated and sequential living faith?
Atheists claim that humans love to “start”/invent their religions (for status, prophet and power) and many claim it’s easy to do so...and history is littered with the bones of thousands of attempts to do so.....so why do we never get two major living faiths “starting” in the same timeframe?
you want proof,
Nope. I’ve never said I wanted/expected “proof” of God.
I am well satisfied with the abundant and persuasive rational ‘evidence’ of God.
show me god went and talked to all different races and cultures at the same time and the same storys spread evenly.
Strange proof...sounds something akin to a Fundamentalist Creationist expecting “proof” of Evolution of life to be “all different life forms and species evolve at the same time and the same evolutionary stories/events spread evenly”.
Once more you may find it profitable to invert and examine your scenario and invite-
Show me a people/culture, among all the apparent/seeming “different races” that are in fact >One Race<...human...(just like One God huh ;-), that did not have an evolving notion of Spirit/God/afterlife........does that universality and simultaneity constitute “proof”?
You cannot and fail this exercise.
Given it was the “exercise” of laying on the couch envisaging non existent “different races” I failed to see the point of attempting an exercise that does not strengthen understanding.
His creation. What he has made. (Psalms 19:1,2)
outhouse
Atheistically
outhouse
Atheistically
First up....I refer you to the unmet, unanswered-
http://www.religiousforums.com/forum/2421319-post1036.html
Originally Posted by Wombat
And if it should come to pass/evolve that "the same god is evenly distributed globally" and the major living religious traditions recognised that the god worshiped is 'one God'......would think it would be solid proof there IS god?
I wouldn't......but surely you hold the inverse of your proposition to be true....?
Ah....I see....it must “start” as “proof”....it cannot ‘evolve’ as understanding and be recognized as “proof”.
Fascinating...................................and very handy.
first ancient hebrews started the abrahamic god.
An unsubstantiated proposition wide open to obvious and valid alternatives- the first and foremost being that pre Hebrew Animists recognised God....that “abrahamic god” only reflects our evolving understanding.
a thousand years later with people that already know the fables and history branch away into christianity with a proclaimed son of god.
then a few hundred years later after already knowing the same history the muslims start their religion.
Well done!...there ya go!...you have started to come to terms with and recognise the sequential nature of the worlds major living faiths raised way back in #1036! You have identified two of the sequential isolated blips on the religion timeline ....1......1.....1......1....1....1....
Now perhaps one day someone can explain why (unlike >any other< field of human endeavour) there has to be a gap- “a thousand years later” before “people that already know the fables and history branch away into” the next isolated and sequential living faith?
Atheists claim that humans love to “start”/invent their religions (for status, prophet and power) and many claim it’s easy to do so...and history is littered with the bones of thousands of attempts to do so.....so why do we never get two major living faiths “starting” in the same timeframe?
you want proof,
Nope. I’ve never said I wanted/expected “proof” of God.
I am well satisfied with the abundant and persuasive rational ‘evidence’ of God.
show me god went and talked to all different races and cultures at the same time and the same storys spread evenly.
Strange proof...sounds something akin to a Fundamentalist Creationist expecting “proof” of Evolution of life to be “all different life forms and species evolve at the same time and the same evolutionary stories/events spread evenly”.
Once more you may find it profitable to invert and examine your scenario and invite-
Show me a people/culture, among all the apparent/seeming “different races” that are in fact >One Race<...human...(just like One God huh ;-), that did not have an evolving notion of Spirit/God/afterlife........does that universality and simultaneity constitute “proof”?
You cannot and fail this exercise.
Given it was the “exercise” of laying on the couch envisaging non existent “different races” I failed to see the point of attempting an exercise that does not strengthen understanding.
there is a old indian saying that reminds me of your post
"white man talk so much and say so little"
you were not replied to because you have not shown the smallest bit of proof, allthough you have showed your opinion only
Wombat
Active Member
Guess they hadn't come up with the term "Cop out"
"Indians"..............which "different race" are they again? Indian or American...in your "opinion"?
Wombat
Active Member
Yea.....I have "proof" that I entered this discussion way back by pointing out the distinction between proof and evidence and that while the former may be absent it does not mean/imply the latter is also.
I never spoke, argued, suggested, advocated, offered or expected proof of God....but please...do carry on with the circular semantics and cop out evasion..........alone :beach:
waitasec
Veteran Member
if god were real, why don't we all objectively experience god the same way?
doesn't there need to be a fundamental understanding that is consistently empirical and undeniable throughout all faiths in order for people to be able to recognize who and what god is?
the only thing that i see being presented as the common understanding is the metaphysical which is entirely subjective.
we know that people can be good without god and vice versa
we know people can be evil with god and vice versa
so where is the evidence, and why is faith considered to be a moral attribute when it only encourages people to make uninformed decisions while adhering to the mob mentality...
:rainbow1:
doesn't there need to be a fundamental understanding that is consistently empirical and undeniable throughout all faiths in order for people to be able to recognize who and what god is?
the only thing that i see being presented as the common understanding is the metaphysical which is entirely subjective.
we know that people can be good without god and vice versa
we know people can be evil with god and vice versa
so where is the evidence, and why is faith considered to be a moral attribute when it only encourages people to make uninformed decisions while adhering to the mob mentality...
:rainbow1:
The heavens and the earth. Or do you think they just poofed into existence? Creation of matter requires almost limitless energy. Creation of life requires limitless intelligence. The Bible invites us "Raise your eyes high up and see. Who has created these things? It is the One who is bringing forth the army of them even by number, all of whom he calls even by name. Due to the abundance of dynamic energy, he also being vigorous in power, not one of them is missing." (Isaiah 40:26)
The billions of galaxies, and the microscopic atom all shout "Design. Intelligence. Purpose."
waitasec
Veteran Member
it would seem the 'creation', for argument sake, of the heavens and the earth is just as indifferent as the tornadoes and tsunamis we have witnessed as of late
no purpose but a result of pressure...no feelings or lives are being considered and so forth...
Orias
Left Hand Path
Your a smart guy, you should broaden your horizon.
Yes, basing knowledge off of wikipedia is something that only people of "secondhand" knowledge do, since wikipedia can easily be changed by those who wish to see it fit as they want others to know. ( mean no offense by this but you know its true)
I wasn't speaking of the earliest form of the Germanic word for "God", I was speaking of the earliest word of "God" period, which I have studied over numerous doctrines in school as well as on my free time.
Look here to find out more.
And to reference wikipedia's earliest definition of "God" it would come from the early Chinese translation of "Supreme" or "Most High", but this only dates back to 2,000 years which ales in comparison to the 15,000 year old translation of Hu or "God".
outhouse
Atheistically
im focusing on ancient hebrew culture and how egyptian and sumerian's influenced early semetic speaking people. I still have allot to learn with the current history i seek.
Lot of religions and gods to learn dealing with the hebrews and sumerians and egyptians.
Oh i agree whole hearted, i was kind of backing what I already know. We know writing goes back to 6000 years between 3 large cultures and not one of them mentions a god figure which as wiki pointed out started rather late in history. If you had said deitys go back 11,000 -15,000 years I would have agreed as im sure they go back further then homo sapiens.
I think you would have been better off with deity