What evidence is there that christians are all mass deluded?

[linwood]

The classic example is of a schizophrenic who claimed to be dead. Psychiatrist talks with her, and asks, among other things, if dead people bleed. She says no. He shows her a pin and asks what will happen if she is pricked. She says there will be no blood, because dead people don't bleed. With her permission, he pricks her, and she gasps, "Wow, dead people DO bleed!"

This is an incorrigable belief. There was nothing that can convince the woman that she was alive. Likewise, it was impossible and demonstrably incorrect, on a reasonably OBJECTIVE level.

To be honest DS you and other theists I`ve debated are guilty of this exact same "incorrigible" belief concerning the validity of their holy texts and doctrine.

All your posturing and name-calling can't hide the fact that you have no such reasonable OBJECTIVE stance to prove Christian experience to be incorrigable, impossible or demonstrably incorrect.

You`ve got to be kidding.

This standard of incorrigibility isn`t mine but for the sake of argument I`ll deal with it for now.

Are you arguing that the majority of the Christian faithful do not have an incorrigible hold on their folklore dogma and doctrine?

I don`t even know where to begin...

The Flood
Creation
6000 year old cosmos
The doctrine of Hell
Virgin birth
Golden plates
Hebrew Indians
The validity of the BOM

Christianity is nothing if not packed full of incorrigible belief!

The subjective nature of their experience resists proving it to be impossible or demonstrably incorrect.

True but the tenants and doctrine and sources for their belief have been evidenced to be "incorrect" over and over again.
The very substance most rest their faith upon has been falsified endlessly to no avail due to their incorrigible belief.

 

[linwood]

Question DS.

Does the Church of Mormon still make the not so subtle implication that Native Americans are Isrealites?
Do you personally hold this belief?

 

[Beaudreaux]

...Psychiatrist talks with her, and asks, among other things, if dead people bleed. She says no. He shows her a pin and asks what will happen if she is pricked. She says there will be no blood, because dead people don't bleed. With her permission, he pricks her, and she gasps, "Wow, dead people DO bleed!"

Man talks with a Christian who insists that God exists and asks her if God answers prayers. She says yes. He asks what will happen if she prays and asks God to heal her amputated limb. She says God will heal the limb because God answers the good requests of the faithful. The man has her pray for healing which does not occur. Afterward she gasps "Wow, sometimes God answers with a 'no'".

Man talks with a Christian who insists that God exists and asks her if almighty God loves us. She says yes. He asks if God protects his children. She says yes. The man shows her a room full of children and infants dieing of AIDS and cancer. She gasps "Wow, suffering a painful early death must be a good thing!"

 

[Autodidact]

Finally someone gets into the DSM-style definitions of delusion. These are things that psychiatrists look for when making a diagnosis--incorrigable, impossible, demonstrably incorrect.

The classic example is of a schizophrenic who claimed to be dead. Psychiatrist talks with her, and asks, among other things, if dead people bleed. She says no. He shows her a pin and asks what will happen if she is pricked. She says there will be no blood, because dead people don't bleed. With her permission, he pricks her, and she gasps, "Wow, dead people DO bleed!"

This is an incorrigable belief. There was nothing that can convince the woman that she was alive. Likewise, it was impossible and demonstrably incorrect, on a reasonably OBJECTIVE level.

All your posturing and name-calling can't hide the fact that you have no such reasonable OBJECTIVE stance to prove Christian experience to be incorrigable, impossible or demonstrably incorrect. The vast numbers of converts into and out of Christianity testify against it being incorrigable. The subjective nature of their experience resists proving it to be impossible or demonstrably incorrect.

Funny thing is, this puts you in exactly the same position as the Christians who want you to accept their beliefs without question: each of you is trying to foist the burden of proof onto the other person.

O.K., so a delusion is not falsifiable. There is no possible circumstance that could cause the deluded individual to give up their belief.

What circumstance would cause you to give up your religious belief?

 

[dogsgod]

O.K., so a delusion is not falsifiable. There is no possible circumstance that could cause the deluded individual to give up their belief.

What circumstance would cause you to give up your religious belief?

Reason worked for me. I lost the religious beliefs I held by reasoning my way out. I might be deluded, but not when it comes to religion.

 

[Autodidact]

Reason worked for me. I lost the religious beliefs I held by reasoning my way out. I might be deluded, but not when it comes to religion.

Well your avatar is sure confusing.

 

[Mister Emu]

The doctrine of Hell
Virgin birth

Neither of these falls under impossible or demonstrably false... nor does creation in a broad sense, but I think you meant in a YEC framework...

Man talks with a Christian who insists that God exists and asks her if God answers prayers. She says yes. He asks what will happen if she prays and asks God to heal her amputated limb. She says God will heal the limb because God answers the good requests of the faithful. The man has her pray for healing which does not occur.

That God did not answer a single prayer in not proof of God not answering prayer at all... and yes, her belief was faulty that God would answer her every whim...

The difference here is that the belief that dead people don't bleed is a correct belief... a correct belief was changed to co-exist with the delusion...

What circumstance would cause you to give up your religious belief?

What circumstances would cause you to give up your belief that the computer you typed this question on exists?

 

[Autodidact]

What circumstances would cause you to give up your belief that the computer you typed this question on exists?

If I could not see, hear, or feel the computer. If I typed and nothing happened. If everyone else told me they couldn't perceive it. If I was unable to post.

Now, what circumstances would cause you to give up your belief in God?

 

[Autodidact]

Clearly, YEC's meet the DSM criteria for delusion. They persist in demonstrably false beliefs despite proof to the contrary. They adjust their beliefs about reality to conform to their delusion, which is incorrigible.

For example, they agree that insects cannot live underwater. But according to you they lived underwater for a year! Oh, how about that, insects can live underwater. Same for plants.

They agree that neither fresh nor salt water fish can live in brackish water, but they did for a year. Oh, I guess they can.

They agree that Egyptians cannot keep written records while underwater. Oh, I guess they can, and all without noticing they're underwater.

They assert that new species do not evolve. Then how did we get so many more "kinds" than could fit on on ark? Oh, I guess they do actually hyper-evolve.

They agree that wooden boats cannot exceed 350 feet without breaking up. But you say the ark did. Oh, I guess they can.

They simultaneously assert that the flood carved the grand canyon, but did not break a wooden boat.

Clearly delusional.

 

[averageJOE]

What circumstances would cause you to give up your belief that the computer you typed this question on exists?

If someone were to pick up this computer, throw it at my face with all their strength, and nothing happens...then I'll consider the possiblity that this computer doesn't exsist.

But I won't try it cause I know it does.

 

[Mister Emu]

If I could not see, hear, or feel the computer. If I typed and nothing happened. If everyone else told me they couldn't perceive it. If I was unable to post.

Now, what circumstances would cause you to give up your belief in God?

So if someone took your computer you would believe it doesn't exist I mean if I took your computer, you wouldn't be able to see it, hear it, or feel it ? If your computer no longer worked, and no one else perceived it, how would you explain the posts you have written, and other people have responded to, on that very, now non-existant, computer?

For me to doubt God, as God is not a physical object I can't just have other people come by and say, "nothing is there", I would have to have it proven to me that my abilities to perceive the world around me are seriously flawed...

 

[Mister Emu]

according to you

Since I brought up YEC, am I to assume this "you" is me? Or is it a general you?

 

[Autodidact]

So if someone took your computer you would believe it doesn't exist I mean if I took your computer, you wouldn't be able to see it, hear it, or feel it ?

Of course I would. I would only have to go to where you took it.

If your computer no longer worked, and no one else perceived it, how would you explain the posts you have written, and other people have responded to, on that very, now non-existant, computer?

No, if my computer did not exist, I would not be able to post.

For me to doubt God, as God is not a physical object I can't just have other people come by and say, "nothing is there", I would have to have it proven to me that my abilities to perceive the world around me are seriously flawed...

You're not understanding the question. Go back to the hypo. The doctor and patient agree, if I prick you and you bleed, then you are not dead. If the patient accepted the evidence, then she is not delusional. If she doesn't, she is. If she said, "No matter what you show me, I know I'm dead anyway, then she would be delusional. Right? So, to establish that you're not delusional, what can we agree in advance would, purely in theory, demonstrate to you that God does not exist? Is your hypothesis falsifiable under any theoretically conceivable circumstance? If so, what? If not, then, by your own description, you're not open to having your belief disproved. That is, your belief is incorrigible. IOW, delusional.

This is how I became an atheist. I said to myself, "If it turns out that intercessory prayer doesn't work, then a God who answers such prayers (the God everyone talks about and prays to) does not exist." If there is a God, He either does not intervene in human affairs or does not answer our prayers, so is not the Christian, Jewish or Muslim God. I read the research. Intercessory prayer doesn't work. So I concluded that God does not exist. You can read the same research. If you persist in your belief that such a God exists, then you're delusional.

 

[Autodidact]

Since I brought up YEC, am I to assume this "you" is me? Or is it a general you?

"You," a hypothetical YEC. If you subscribe to YEC, then it includes you. Anyone who does is demonstrably delusional.

 

[Bware]

The question is not unfair Kerr. I'm not trying to ask people to prove there is no god or that there is, im asking for evidence that christians are crazy or delusional. I mean....surely there are scientific ways to prove this right?

Are our brains not wired properly....ya know....or what?

What did someone call you crazy or something? Look it doesn't matter what evidence we put out there to refute your beliefs, you will find some way to refute our evidence based on "your" view point. It goes the both ways, this old argument for and against religion will never end (until a god thingy drops from the sky with lightning bolts, and that's a requirement, because any cool god thingy would have lightning bolts!)

Do I think Christians are crazy? Well no, that would make my whole family certifiable. I do however admit that they are not logical IMO. And you I'm sure will say where is the proof that they are not logical? I don't have any, other than the fact, that my whole life is based on logic, I always make the logical decision, whether right or wrong, it is the most logical path. My logic tells me that Christianity and all of the other major religions are false. But again that's me.:angel2:

 

[Bware]

Hmmm....millions of christians are brainwashed. Ok...great so by what mechanism are christians brainwashed. What brainwashes us? What makes us suseptable to being the type to be brainwashed?

It's not just Christians, you just got your feelings hurt by someone. It's most (not all) organized religions. Me personally I use Christianity in all of my arguments because it's what I knwo and how I was raised, but I'm sure that if I were raised Islamic then my arguments would be against Islam.
Also it has to do with the fact that alot of Christians go out of there way (kind of like in this thread) to jump up and try to convert us, or say why are you attacking me? Remember you started this thread about us thinking you were crazy. It seems to happen alot with Christians, so of course people rail against you. It's kind of like a little kid haning upside down by his feet from a tree and shouting "hey look at me!", you look shake your head and walk off, then the kid jumps down and says "hey why did you walk away, hey play with me, hey, hey!". Same thing, of course we focus on you.:shout

 

[Bware]

Quote:
The doctrine of Hell
Virgin birth

Neither of these falls under impossible or demonstrably false... nor does creation in a broad sense, but I think you meant in a YEC framework...

How is Virgin birth not impossible? Barring invitro fertilization?

 

[Humanistheart]

Emu, I'm curious, why do you not include the name or the link to the posts you quote? Is it so no one can check on their accuracy?

 

[Mister Emu]

Emu, I'm curious, why do you not include the name or the link to the posts you quote? Is it so no one can check on their accuracy?

Yeah, that is why

I don't use the quote button on the bottom of posts, I grab the pertinent parts of posts I want to respond to, and them paste them in the quick reply box... I try to remember to put names in if I quote multiple people, but sometimes I forget...

If you think I make up quotes call me out... I'll go back and get the post number if you do, because everything I quote is said by somebody

 

[linwood]

Neither of these falls under impossible or demonstrably false... nor does creation in a broad sense, but I think you meant in a YEC framework...

Fine, throw `em out I`ll replace them with

prayer
faith healing.

If ya don`t like those I`ll replace them too.

I got back-ups.