What exactly makes someone a TERF?

[PoetPhilosopher]

What's interesting / terrifying is that there are certain topics these days about which if a person disagrees, they are bullied and insulted every which way.

I'm actually sorry if I came off that way. It was more a warning about some "unfalsifiable" claims I was seeing, and it's very difficult to debate the unfalsifiable, so I simply warned about where (I thought) things might be heading. Sorry if I painted a bleak picture, presumed things, and/or was a bit hyperbolic.

 

[PoetPhilosopher]

The article has a bias, it's of course important to keep that in mind.

It was just a definition, though.

Do you have an unbiased definition?

 

[anna.]

It was just a definition, though.

Do you have an unbiased definition?

It's not a subject I follow, although I'm aware of the term.

My point was that if you follow the article source, it's not neutral - it's from a newsletter which has an anti-trans bias.

About - The Distance

A politically homeless shelter from woke and left-right discourse, by LGB United. Click to read The Distance, a Substack publication with thousands of subscribers.

www.thedistancemag.com

 

[PoetPhilosopher]

It's not a subject I follow, although I'm aware of the term.

My point was that if you follow the article source, it's not neutral - it's from a newsletter which has an anti-trans bias.

About - The Distance

A politically homeless shelter from woke and left-right discourse, by LGB United. Click to read The Distance, a Substack publication with thousands of subscribers.

www.thedistancemag.com

Yeah, I don't know. First time I've seen that article.

This was what I posted: You may have heard about TERFs - Gender Justice

 

[anna.]

Yeah, I don't know. First time I've seen that article.

It's the OP. I thought that's what you were talking about, sorry.

This was what I posted: You may have heard about TERFs - Gender Justice

That's in line with what I understand to this point.

 

[Orbit]

I'm proposing that most people who use the term are using it to silence ANY form of criticism. That it's not about supporting people, it's about defending agendas.

So I'd still like to hear specific examples of an action that renders a person a TERF?

I think you're asking the wrong crowd. As far as I can tell, RF has anti-trans people, trans people, and people who think trans people exist and shouldn't be persecuted. I haven't seen any "trans activists". But you had to have your weekly anti-trans thread, so whatever.

 

[icehorse]

I think you're asking the wrong crowd. As far as I can tell, RF has anti-trans people, trans people, and people who think trans people exist and shouldn't be persecuted. I haven't seen any "trans activists". But you had to have your weekly anti-trans thread, so whatever.

What I see on RF is people who tacitly or explicitly apologize for trans activists, no matter what.

No doubt trans people need support. No doubt that some of the trans activist's strategies are fine.

But we need to be able to criticize strategies and tactics without being bullied or slurred.

One thing I've experienced a lot recently is summarized in a recent post when I was told "i was not listening". There is a certain smug certainty to that orientation that does NOT smack of having good arguments. (In this case the poster apologized. That's appreciated and also rare as hen's teeth on RF.) And for the record, I DO listen, it's just that often I do not agree.

If a person has a good argument, they should easily be able to avoid using slurs or other bullying tactics, correct?

 

[YmirGF]

The term

I know TERF means trans exclusionary radical feminist.

But what exactly does a person have to believe to ACCURATELY be labeled a TERF?

Office Max is printing "Punch a TERF" materials? Those TERFs must be some awful people ??

Office Max/Office Depot Prints 'PUNCH A TERF' Cards at Eight Locations and Counting

The term applies to so-called "radical" feminists who are not supportive of transgender advocates mainly. So, they lean politically "left" but do not go along with all the Gender Identity nonsense. Think of them of as sane Lesbians opposing people who have clearly lost their collective minds. This all came to a head, pun intended, when Lesbians were told they needed to consider dating trans women and if they did not, they are bigots.

Gay men and women do NOT want a "trans" partner. FULL STOP! The sexuality is baked into SAME SEX ATTRACTION.

So, Terf's got angry at being told they had to date women with penises for the sake of inclusivity. The insanity never ends... and of course... the TERF are the bad one since they don't play along with the mass delusions infecting our society today. Oh, and just for fun, a Lesbian who does date a trans woman is still in a lesbian relationship even though her new partner brings something a little different to the relationship. (I'll leave you to work out the hilarious mental gymnastics required here.)

Lastly, the term is ALWAYS used as a pejorative and with more than a measure of disdain, imbuing the speaker with an imagined sense of superiority.

Hope this helps. @icehorse

Another amusing feature of this term is found in the term "radical". In my view, it's a play on words, in that the proponents of the term are implying that these feminists have been "radicalized" to NOT accept the indoctrinational lines of Transgenderism. (Ergo. Any reasonable person would agree with Gender Ideology and so to be against its unimpeded spread is deemed "radical".)

 

[Quintessence]

This one has only a very cursory awareness of what the opening poster references. From what I've gathered, it's a small group of humans who... sometimes have their hearts in the right place but fail to understand the complexities of intersectionality and othertimes they're outright bigots.

 

[icehorse]

It was more a warning about some "unfalsifiable" claims I was seeing

Again, I appreciate your reply.

If I made unfalsifiable claims, please point them out! thanks

 

[Soandso]

The term

The term applies to so-called "radical" feminists who are not supportive of transgender advocates mainly. So, they lean politically "left" but do not go along with all the Gender Identity nonsense. Think of them of as sane Lesbians opposing people who have clearly lost their collective minds. This all came to a head, pun intended, when Lesbians were told they needed to consider dating trans women and if they did not, they are bigots.

Gay men and women do NOT want a "trans" partner. FULL STOP! The sexuality is baked into SAME SEX ATTRACTION.

So, Terf's got angry at being told they had to date women with penises for the sake of inclusivity. The insanity never ends... and of course... the TERF are the bad one since they don't play along with the mass delusions infecting our society today. Oh, and just for fun, a Lesbian who does date a trans woman is still in a lesbian relationship even though her new partner brings something a little different to the relationship. (I'll leave you to work out the hilarious mental gymnastics required here.)

Lastly, the term is ALWAYS used as a pejorative and with more than a measure of disdain, imbuing the speaker with an imagined sense of superiority.

Hope this helps. @icehorse

Another amusing feature of this term is found in the term "radical". In my view, it's a play on words, in that the proponents of the term are implying that these feminists have been "radicalized" to NOT accept the indoctrinational lines of Transgenderism. (Ergo. Any reasonable person would agree with Gender Ideology and so to be against its unimpeded spread is deemed "radical".)

Speaking of mental gymnastics, that's one heck of a straw man you've assembled here. I'd like to see what you base this on

While there is no doubt a tiny minority of radical leftists who would say that it's transphobic to not want to date someone who's trans, what makes you think that what we see would amount to a "mass delusion?" I haven't seen anything that would lead me to this conclusion. The trans people I've known in real life are open and upfront about their status as being trans and understand that dating trans folks isn't for everyone. Everyone has preferences

 

[YmirGF]

Speaking of mental gymnastics, that's one heck of a straw man you've assembled here. I'd like to see what you base this on

While there is no doubt a tiny minority of radical leftists who would say that it's transphobic to not want to date someone who's trans, what makes you think that what we see would amount to a "mass delusion?" I haven't seen anything that would lead me to this conclusion. The trans people I've known in real life are open and upfront about their status as being trans and understand that dating trans folks isn't for everyone. Everyone has preferences

You need to get out more.

Lesbian dating platform sends a 'message to transphobes': Delete our app

The founder of popular queer dating app HER said transgender and nonbinary lesbians are welcome on the platform.

www.nbcnews.com

It's a thing. (No pun intended.)

 

[PoetPhilosopher]

Again, I appreciate your reply.

If I made unfalsifiable claims, please point them out! thanks

I'll try:

Office Max is printing "Punch a TERF" materials? Those TERFs must be some awful people ??

Discussing a person's character can involve subjective judgments and opinions, which can make it challenging to prove or disprove.

While some parts of a person's character might be observable through their actions and behaviors, others could be based on interpretation, making it less definite and more open to interpretation. Character-related claims may at times fall into the category of unfalsifiable claims, or at least nearly so. Especially if we don't (yet) have all information on a subject yet.

Also, the motivation might be different than the TERFs being awful people. For all we know, some of what goes on any more could be inside jokes or TikTok trends. Or it could just be a political or ideological push-back.

What I see is that trans activists use the term TERF to silence any criticism of their activism.

This is a really complex thing to debate. For example, which trans activists? All trans activists? Some trans activists? And how do we prove that when they say "TERF", they are using it in that way?

How do we define who is a trans activist and who isn't, as well?

Also, if you point to examples used in the forum here, it may be a straw man, because as someone else said, most of us are people other than trans activists - even if some of us are trans ourselves.

 

[PoetPhilosopher]

You need to get out more.

Lesbian dating platform sends a 'message to transphobes': Delete our app

The founder of popular queer dating app HER said transgender and nonbinary lesbians are welcome on the platform.

www.nbcnews.com

It's a thing. (No pun intended.)

I suspect that article isn't saying what you think it does.

 

[Soandso]

You need to get out more.

Lesbian dating platform sends a 'message to transphobes': Delete our app

The founder of popular queer dating app HER said transgender and nonbinary lesbians are welcome on the platform.

www.nbcnews.com

It's a thing. (No pun intended.)

I didn't see anything in that article that said that it was transphobic to not want to date trans people, or that people in a sizeable scale in the broader public thought so. All the article talked about was that the website affirmed it's support with trans people in the face of backlash from a small amount of TERFs who used the website. Maybe you could point out that part to me if I missed it?

We are talking about a minority of a minority. Where's the "mass delusion?" I feel like you are making baseless assertions. I'd like to see stats to back that claim, as I can't see that actually reflected in any meaningful way in real day to day life. How much of the public do you think views it as anti trans to just not be into dating trans people? Like I said, everyone has preferences. That's fine, and most folks I've known in the real world recognize that fact

 

[YmirGF]

I suspect that article isn't saying what you think it does.

Oddly, it seemed very clear to me. I am familiar with the backstory as well that the article does not go into.

 

[The Hammer]

Oddly, it seemed very clear to me. I am familiar with the backstory as well that the article does not go into.

Oooh. Juicy gossip. Do tell girl.

 

[Father Heathen]

The term

The term applies to so-called "radical" feminists who are not supportive of transgender advocates mainly. So, they lean politically "left" but do not go along with all the Gender Identity nonsense. Think of them of as sane Lesbians opposing people who have clearly lost their collective minds. This all came to a head, pun intended, when Lesbians were told they needed to consider dating trans women and if they did not, they are bigots.

Gay men and women do NOT want a "trans" partner. FULL STOP! The sexuality is baked into SAME SEX ATTRACTION.

So, Terf's got angry at being told they had to date women with penises for the sake of inclusivity. The insanity never ends... and of course... the TERF are the bad one since they don't play along with the mass delusions infecting our society today. Oh, and just for fun, a Lesbian who does date a trans woman is still in a lesbian relationship even though her new partner brings something a little different to the relationship. (I'll leave you to work out the hilarious mental gymnastics required here.)

Lastly, the term is ALWAYS used as a pejorative and with more than a measure of disdain, imbuing the speaker with an imagined sense of superiority.

Hope this helps. @icehorse

Another amusing feature of this term is found in the term "radical". In my view, it's a play on words, in that the proponents of the term are implying that these feminists have been "radicalized" to NOT accept the indoctrinational lines of Transgenderism. (Ergo. Any reasonable person would agree with Gender Ideology and so to be against its unimpeded spread is deemed "radical".)

Not all feminists are lesbians, trans exclusionary or otherwise. J.K. Rowling is regarded as a "TERF", and she's married to a man. Also, cis women/transwomen couples exist.

That said, I personally don't believe that declining to date trans people necessarily makes one transphobic. To me that's not a fair expectation.

 

[PoetPhilosopher]

Oddly, it seemed very clear to me. I am familiar with the backstory as well that the article does not go into.

You are familiar with a lesbian dating app? Ever used it?

 

[YmirGF]

Not all feminists are lesbians, trans exclusionary or otherwise. J.K. Rowling is regarded as a "TERF", and she's married to a man. Also, cis women/transwomen couples exist.

I stand corrected, @Father Heathen the term can be thrown at anyone who upsets the "Trangender Fragility" apple-cart. That allowed for, I stand by my assertion that this is primarily an issue hurled at lesbian feminists. But the term can be applied to anyone who provokes the ire of the keepers of the term.

That said, I personally don't believe that declining to date trans people necessarily makes one transphobic. To me that's not a fair expectation.

I agree. It's a pretty weird thing to expect