• Welcome to Religious Forums, a friendly forum to discuss all religions in a friendly surrounding.

    Your voice is missing! You will need to register to get access to the following site features:
    • Reply to discussions and create your own threads.
    • Our modern chat room. No add-ons or extensions required, just login and start chatting!
    • Access to private conversations with other members.

    We hope to see you as a part of our community soon!

What For You is the Single Biggest Political Issue of the 2016 Election?

esmith

Veteran Member
I read the below highlighted (my highlight) as advocating for the federal government to mandate minimum wages. Maybe I'm wrong but I don't think so. How say you?
Midnight Rain said:
The federal government is the only way to ensure that people of the whole nation make a livable wage. 15 an hour isn't outrageous even in the boonies.
MR was talking about the minimum wage, and I don't see whereas he stated or implied that this should be done across the aboard. However, raising the minimum wage to $15 would have the effect of enticing other businesses to raise their employee's wages to that level or maybe a bit beyond in order to keep their employees.

So saying that the federal government is the only way to ensure the whole nation makes a livable wage does not imply that the government will set a wage? What are they going to do beg companies to pay their workers more or maybe beg State governments to mandate livable wages? All I hear form liberals/progressives is that a livable wage is an increase of the minimum wage an saying "the only way to ensure people make a livable wage" is to mandate a livable wage. So spin this any way you wish to make your point but all you are doing is spinning.


So let's go to the source.
Midnight Rain did you mean to imply that the federal government should set a minimum wage/livable wage?
 

metis

aged ecumenical anthropologist
So saying that the federal government is the only way to ensure the whole nation makes a livable wage does not imply that the government will set a wage?
No, that would only set the minimum wage, and even that would only apply to businesses that have interstate facilities. Obviously, it is now the states that primarily do this, and most do. If one is consistent along your lines, then they logically should also be opposed to states doing this.
 

esmith

Veteran Member
No, that would only set the minimum wage, and even that would only apply to businesses that have interstate facilities. Obviously, it is now the states that primarily do this, and most do. If one is consistent along your lines, then they logically should also be opposed to states doing this.
That's your spin on the discussion. Let's just wait for Midnight Rain to clarify, you nor I can say for sure what (MR) meant.
 

Revoltingest

Pragmatic Libertarian
Premium Member
No, that would only set the minimum wage, and even that would only apply to businesses that have interstate facilities.
Coverage is broader than this.
Government defines "interstate commerce" very very broadly.
http://www.dol.gov/whd/regs/compliance/whdfs14.htm
".....employees are protected by the FLSA if their work regularly involves them in commerce between States ("interstate commerce"). The FLSA covers individual workers who are "engaged in commerce or in the production of goods for commerce."

Examples of employees who are involved in interstate commerce include those who: produce goods (such as a worker assembling components in a factory or a secretary typing letters in an office) that will be sent out of state, regularly make telephone calls to persons located in other States, handle records of interstate transactions, travel to other States on their jobs, and do janitorial work in buildings where goods are produced for shipment outside the State.

Also, domestic service workers (such as housekeepers, full-time babysitters, and cooks) are normally covered by the law."

Why would a cook be covered?
They'd argue the Interstate Commerce Clause applies because food was grown in another state, energy used was produced in another state, or the cook's clothing was produced outside of the state. There is nothing the fed gov cannot regulate, except perhaps buying a melon at an Amish roadside stand.
 
Last edited:
What for you is the single biggest political issue of the 2016 election? Why?




For me, the biggest issue is the increasing concentration of income, wealth and political power in the hands of fewer and fewer people. Because of that, America is now a near oligarchy, and if the trend is not reversed, America will at some point change from an oligarchy into a dictatorship. That has been the pattern through-out history. There is no reason to suppose we will escape it if we do not act to reverse the trend.
I agree. Interestingly, there is and has been a broad consensus that this is the key issue facing our country. McCain was a strong proponent of campaign finance reform. Romney's message, when he wasn't being secretly videotaped at least, was that the middle class was getting burned. Ted Cruz mentioned hedge fund managers paying lower taxes than their secretaries and Trump often mentions that he'll do what's right because he isn't beholden to lobbyists' money. Sanders' focus on wealth inequality and campaign finance reform goes without saying.

I am not certain how genuinely Hillary Clinton cares about this issue, unfortunately.
 

Sunstone

De Diablo Del Fora
Premium Member
I am not certain how genuinely Hillary Clinton cares about this issue, unfortunately.

My hunch is she doesn't much care about it. But, if that's the case, I'd be very curious why it is not an issue to her, because she's a highly intelligent person with a generally sound grasp of things and their consequences. Even her enemies, the ones who actually know her, say that much about her.

Of course, who knows what she really thinks?
 

mindlight

See in the dark
What for you is the single biggest political issue of the 2016 election? Why?.


The management of the US - Europe alliance and how relations with the Muslim world are to be handled are the crucial issues in my view. These are crucial for world stability on which peace and prosperity and freedoms depend
 

esmith

Veteran Member
My hunch is she doesn't much care about it. But, if that's the case, I'd be very curious why it is not an issue to her, because she's a highly intelligent person with a generally sound grasp of things and their consequences. Even her enemies, the ones who actually know her, say that much about her.

Of course, who knows what she really thinks?
The Clinton's are for the Clinton's. If it doesn't directly affect them it is not something they really care about. Now of course they will say or do anything as long as the actions or words will further the agenda that benefits them. This is true about many politicians.
 

Nous

Well-Known Member
Premium Member
For me, the biggest issue is the increasing concentration of income, wealth and political power in the hands of fewer and fewer people.

I think that the disparity of wealth issue is number one because it is potentially the most destabilizing trend.
A number of economists have warned about the dangers of increasing income inequality. I’m inclined to agree. I’m not sure that the cause of the trend of increasing income inequality of the past 3 or 4 decades in the US has been identified with any degree of certainty (the trend might be partly due immigration policies and illegal immigration). Nevertheless, surely the trend can be forestalled to some degree by tax measures. But such measures are something that Congress will have to attend to. Even a President who is concerned about and wishes reverse the current trend (as I think Obama has been) can only do so much arming-twisting and begging.

It's an interesting phenomenon that Americans place so much emphasis on the President relating to issues that s/he really has little control over.
 

Nous

Well-Known Member
Premium Member
It would be a big issue for me too, if only I knew which candidate posed the greater danger.
But I don't, so it becomes an issue upon which I can't decide.
Actually, of all the uncertainties that I have about Clinton (who seems will be the Democratic candidate), I suspect that she would nominate a quite capable justice to the Court.

In contrast, of all the uncertainties I have about Trump (who seems will be the Republican candidate), that is the biggest and most troubling uncertainty to my mind. I can't imagine whom he might nominate--maybe one of the judges from Dancing with the Stars.
 

Revoltingest

Pragmatic Libertarian
Premium Member
Actually, of all the uncertainties that I have about Clinton (who seems will be the Democratic candidate), I suspect that she would nominate a quite capable justice to the Court.

In contrast, of all the uncertainties I have about Trump (who seems will be the Republican candidate), that is the biggest and most troubling uncertainty to my mind. I can't imagine whom he might nominate--maybe one of the judges from Dancing with the Stars.
I don't see the contrast between the 2 as being so stark.
Hmmm......Hillary might do something so utterly bonkers as nominating Barry or Bill.
 

Rainbow Mage

Lib Democrat/Agnostic/Epicurean-ish/Buddhist-ish
Actually, of all the uncertainties that I have about Clinton (who seems will be the Democratic candidate), I suspect that she would nominate a quite capable justice to the Court.

In contrast, of all the uncertainties I have about Trump (who seems will be the Republican candidate), that is the biggest and most troubling uncertainty to my mind. I can't imagine whom he might nominate--maybe one of the judges from Dancing with the Stars.

We can rely on Clinton to give is someone like Ginsburg, its a pretty safe bet. I'm blue all the way in this. I don't know what considerations some think I ought to consider that would make me choose Republican, but I will never choose GOP until they cease their unconstitutional theocratic agenda for this nation. Nothing they can offer is worth that trade off.
 

Midnight Rain

Well-Known Member
I read the below highlighted (my highlight) as advocating for the federal government to mandate minimum wages. Maybe I'm wrong but I don't think so. How say you?
Yes. And its not mandating wages. Its drawing a line in the sand and saying you cannot hire people for less than that. It doesn't mean that you cannot pay people what you will. No one is saying that you have to pay your physicist 80 grand a year. No one is saynig you need to pay your CEO 200,000 a year. No one is saying that a manager has to make $25 an hour. It is simply setting a minimum you have to pay you're lowest workers.
If the cost of living in an area mandates $15 for hamburger flippers fine, say like San Francisco or New York fine, but if your living in Podunk _______ then it is too much. Let the local economy determine the wage not the &^%^$#$ federal government.
Problem being that the local economy trends towards poverty wages. Yeah you can say you need to take initiative and get a better job. We can all agree on that. But there will ALWAYS be people stuck on the bottom. We can't all be doctors. The economy doesn't work like that. We can't function without these "minimum wage jobs' and in droves of them.

So that means that a certain percentage of our population is ultimately doomed to these low wages. This means that without a minimum wage a certain percentage of our population is doomed to poverty. That isn't right in my opinion. I can agree that 15 bucks an hour might be a lot in boonies. But state governments have jerked around without any real progress. This is especially true in conservative states. So perhaps if the state and local governments weren't such colossal failures in the re guard we wouldn't need a sweeping federal law.
 

esmith

Veteran Member
Yes. And its not mandating wages. Its drawing a line in the sand and saying you cannot hire people for less than that. It doesn't mean that you cannot pay people what you will. No one is saying that you have to pay your physicist 80 grand a year. No one is saynig you need to pay your CEO 200,000 a year. No one is saying that a manager has to make $25 an hour. It is simply setting a minimum you have to pay you're lowest workers.

Problem being that the local economy trends towards poverty wages. Yeah you can say you need to take initiative and get a better job. We can all agree on that. But there will ALWAYS be people stuck on the bottom. We can't all be doctors. The economy doesn't work like that. We can't function without these "minimum wage jobs' and in droves of them.

So that means that a certain percentage of our population is ultimately doomed to these low wages. This means that without a minimum wage a certain percentage of our population is doomed to poverty. That isn't right in my opinion. I can agree that 15 bucks an hour might be a lot in boonies. But state governments have jerked around without any real progress. This is especially true in conservative states. So perhaps if the state and local governments weren't such colossal failures in the re guard we wouldn't need a sweeping federal law.

So metis we now have our answer to what Midnight Rain was advocating for and it appears to be a "sweeping federal law"
 

Midnight Rain

Well-Known Member
So metis we now have our answer to what Midnight Rain was advocating for and it appears to be a "sweeping federal law"
National minimum wage is already a thing. I advocate raising it a mite. Everything that is federal law is sweeping federal laws.

I would imagine metis knew exactly what I was saying.
 

Shadow Wolf

Certified People sTabber & Business Owner
So metis we now have our answer to what Midnight Rain was advocating for and it appears to be a "sweeping federal law"
This "sweeping federal law" must sometimes happen. If it didn't, then pretty much every minority that has equal rights wouldn't have them and those that still lack them are not guaranteed them in all 50 states and may never have them.
 
Top