What happened to Jesus

[ThePainefulTruth]

Roman execution by crucifixion was used almost exclusively for those who participated in insurrection. So, just to begin with, the other two (two hundred???) crucified with Jesus were probably rebels as well, not thieves. What event, then, precipitated this Roman reaction, and Sanhedrin betrayal?

I believe it had to be the cleansing of the Temple just prior to his death.

First off, Jesus didn't do it on his own as tradition has depicted it, any more than the other famous Joshua fought the battle of Jericho by himself. They led the battles. One man wasn't going to go in and disrupt the Temple merchants who were there under the protection of the priesthood. The merchants would have stopped one man on their own, and keeping order was the reason for there being Temple guards. Not only did Jesus (and his armed men) cleanse the Temple, they held it for a day, during which time they stopped all Temple commerce.

I am convinced that Jesus' faith led him to expect his actions would lead to God to re-inhabiting the Temple and ruling Israel/the World from there, with him as God's messiah/anointed one. But God didn't show, so many of his followers scattered, some of those turning on him for his failure and their disappointment--and the rest is history with this event being its most historic kernel.

I don't think it was until he was dying on the cross that Psalm 22 came to his mind, "My God, my God, why have you abandoned me?"

What can we take from this? That Jesus was just a man like any other, and God never interferes lest He destroy the free will He created this natural, rational universe to provide us. Every catastrophe, from one meaningless death of an innocent to the genocide of millions, are monuments to God's commitment to our free will. It is the one and only purpose for Creation. And we need no revelation. Morality is born in each of us the instant we become self-aware, giving us the ability to put ourselves "in the shoes" of another.

For me, Adam is the name we give to that first anonymous human....being, ever to become fully self-aware.

 

[Jayhawker Soule]

Roman execution by crucifixion was used almost exclusively for those who participated in insurrection....

Evidence?

 

[ThePainefulTruth]

Evidence?

"The Romans used crucifixion to maintain peace and order and punish rebellious provincials for incitement to rebellion and acts of treason."

From BAR Jan/Feb 2006 article,
What Did Jesus’ Tomb Look Like?
By Jodi Magness

It won't let me post a link yet.

This is a commonly accepted idea that I've come across often.

 

[Gjallarhorn]

Yeshua Bar-Abba: Jesus Barabbas, son of the Father. Known as a lestes (robber) who participated in a stasis (riot/insurrection).

 

[Jayhawker Soule]

Roman execution by crucifixion was used almost exclusively for those who participated in insurrection.

Evidence?

"The Romans used crucifixion to maintain peace and order and punish rebellious provincials for incitement to rebellion and acts of treason."

Are you capable of distinguishing between ...

• The Romans used crucifixion to maintain peace and order and punish rebellion.
• Roman execution by crucifixion was used almost exclusively to punish insurrection.

 

[ThePainefulTruth]

Yeshua Bar-Abba: Jesus Barabbas, son of the Father. Known as a lestes (robber) who participated in a stasis (riot/insurrection).

Yes, although I'm not familiar with stasis being a riot/insurrection.

Are you capable of distinguishing between ...

• The Romans used crucifixion to maintain peace and order and punish rebellion.
• Roman execution by crucifixion was used almost exclusively to punish insurrection.

"The Romans used crucifixion to maintain peace and order and punish rebellious provincials for incitement to rebellion and acts of treason."

 

[Lintfelmy]

What can we take from this? That Jesus was just a man like any other, and God never interferes lest He destroy the free will He created this natural, rational universe to provide us. Every catastrophe, from one meaningless death of an innocent to the genocide of millions, are monuments to God's commitment to our free will. It is the one and only purpose for Creation. And we need no revelation. Morality is born in each of us the instant we become self-aware, giving us the ability to put ourselves "in the shoes" of another.

For me, Adam is the name we give to that first anonymous human....being, ever to become fully self-aware.

Really like where you are coming from there. I have some of the same beliefs in JC and what he was really saying.

 

[Jayhawker Soule]

Are you capable of distinguishing between ...

• The Romans used crucifixion to maintain peace and order and punish rebellion.
• Roman execution by crucifixion was used almost exclusively to punish insurrection.

"The Romans used crucifixion to maintain peace and order and punish rebellious provincials for incitement to rebellion and acts of treason."

I'll take that as a "no".

 

[E. Nato Difficile]

I don't think it was until he was dying on the cross that Psalm 22 came to his mind, "My God, my God, why have you abandoned me?"

What can we take from this? That Jesus was just a man like any other, and God never interferes lest He destroy the free will He created this natural, rational universe to provide us.

But Jesus kept saying in Gethsemane that the Scripture had to be fulfilled. It had nothing to do with his will, it was God's will: "Yet not what I will, but what you will.”

Every catastrophe, from one meaningless death of an innocent to the genocide of millions, are monuments to God's commitment to our free will. It is the one and only purpose for Creation.

That's an odd statement.

-Nato

 

[ThePainefulTruth]

Really like where you are coming from there. I have some of the same beliefs in JC and what he was really saying.

Is this a newbie test?

Sorry, you're going to have to rephrase. To begin with, most of the major theology, tenets and dogma of Christianity should rightly be called Paulism--which Jesus wouldn't recognize, or worse, find blasphemous.

 

[Lintfelmy]

Is this a newbie test?

Sorry, you're going to have to rephrase. To begin with, most of the major theology, tenets and dogma of Christianity should rightly be called Paulism--which Jesus wouldn't recognize, or worse, find blasphemous.

Test? nope. I agree that christianity today is NOT christianity.

To rephrase: I really like what you are saying and where you are coming from. I hold similar beliefs.

 

[Jayhawker Soule]

To begin with, most of the major theology, tenets and dogma of Christianity should rightly be called Paulism--which Jesus wouldn't recognize, or worse, find blasphemous.

You may well be correct, but I'm curious: on what basis do you presume to know what Jesus would or would not have recognized?

 

[ThePainefulTruth]

But Jesus kept saying in Gethsemane that the Scripture had to be fulfilled. It had nothing to do with his will, it was God's will: "Yet not what I will, but what you will.”


That's an odd statement.

But exceptionally reasonable. The only evidence for revelation or miracles is hearsay; and given human nature, there's more than ample cause to believe they were misperceptions or fabricated, often with sincere "good" intentions.

 

[E. Nato Difficile]

The statement I called odd was as follows:

Every catastrophe, from one meaningless death of an innocent to the genocide of millions, are monuments to God's commitment to our free will. It is the one and only purpose for Creation.

I can't imagine what would constitute the basis for God's alleged commitment to human free will. But Christ's death on the cross certainly wouldn't, because it was only carried out to fulfill God's will in the first place.

-Nato

 

[ThePainefulTruth]

You may well be correct, but I'm curious: on what basis do you presume to know what Jesus would or would not have recognized?

First and foremost, the fact that Jesus was a very observant, esthetic Jew. He may have believed he was a/the messiah, but that was no claim to divinity at all. That is another Paulism.

Test? nope. I agree that christianity today is NOT christianity.

What do you believe Christianity is? The Ebionites have a good claim on the label, or rather, followers of what Jesus actually believed and taught. They, as I do, believe that Paul is the beast of Revelation (not the "anti-christ", but its author's target, and the Dead Sea Scrolls' "Spouter of Lies", they was trying to expose).

 

[Jayhawker Soule]

First and foremost, the fact that Jesus was a very observant, esthetic Jew.

And you presume to know this how?

 

[ThePainefulTruth]

The statement I called odd was as follows:

Every catastrophe, from one meaningless death of an innocent to the genocide of millions, are monuments to God's commitment to our free will. It is the one and only purpose for Creation.

I can't imagine what would constitute the basis for God's alleged commitment to human free will. But Christ's death on the cross certainly wouldn't, because it was only carried out to fulfill God's will in the first place.

-Nato

First of all, no one can die as a substitute for your repentance, not even God. Both Jesus and John the Baptizer preached repentance as they were baptizing along the Jordan River. Human sacrifice is a profane sacrilege against God, and that's what we're talking about here--and Jesus isn't the first instance of it in the Bible. If God told you to sacrifice one of your children, would you? it's a fair question.

What's not to understand about free will? What is love but an empty word if we're pre-programmed to feel it, or not.

---"If you love something, set it free. If it comes back to you, it's yours. If not, it never was."

 

[Lintfelmy]

First and foremost, the fact that Jesus was a very observant, esthetic Jew. He may have believed he was a/the messiah, but that was no claim to divinity at all. That is another Paulism.



What do you believe Christianity is? The Ebionites have a good claim on the label, or rather, followers of what Jesus actually believed and taught. They, as I do, believe that Paul is the beast of Revelation (not the "anti-christ", but its author's target, and the Dead Sea Scrolls' "Spouter of Lies", they was trying to expose).

At the most basic level Christianity is being human(all that is good) instead of animal(materialistic, domination, in the rat race, competition, etc.). So by making a conscious daily effort to do good, practicing genuine humility, and helping my brothers and sisters(all of humanity) or in other words, strive to be completely selfless. By doing this I(we) can experience much of heaven in this journey of life. Much, if not all, of JC teachings were not understood by even his disciples. This is just a little, i'm not very eloquent but this is in the range of what I believe at the moment.

 

[E. Nato Difficile]

If God told you to sacrifice one of your children, would you? it's a fair question.

Wow.

That question is so loaded it belongs under Reverend Rick's pillow.

-Nato

 

[ThePainefulTruth]

And you presume to know this how?

His knowledge of and adherence to, the Law--which he claimed he came not to change, but to fulfill.