What Happens When You Die?

[Thief]

Some are; some not. Those who are asleep think they are awake. Those who are awake know they are no longer asleep.

Those lost in the corridor of Identification, in which they imagine themselves to be an ego they refer to as 'I' and which is acting upon the world are asleep. We call this state 'Waking Sleep'.

Sleep walking............yeah right.

I've heard some people say the dead are only asleep.

Where does that put 'you'?

 

[Muffled]

Mormons believe every word the Bible has to say about Jesus Christ, including that He is our Savior, that He is God, and that He is perfect and sinless. I would strongly suggest that you not try to tell people on this forum "what Mormons believe," because you clearly don't know. I do, and trust me, I will be there to call you on your half-truths and outright lies every single solitary time.

I believe he got th eJW's right but maybe Mormons gey lumped with them because they also go door to door. That seems like a shallow way to look at things if that is the case.

 

[Muffled]

Okay, I apparently haven't posted in this thread prior to today's posts, but I did find a response I gave on another very similar thread. So here is the Mormon belief on "What happens when you die?":

When a person dies, his spirit leaves his body but does not die itself. It continues to exist as a cognizant entity apart from its physical tabernacle. It is immediately given what we might describe as preliminary judgment of sorts, and is sent to the Spirit World to await the resurrection of all mankind and the Last Judgement. While there are no physical boundaries to the Spirit World (herding spirits, I imagine, is much like herding cats ), there is, nevertheless, a division into two states or conditions. Depending upon how a person lived his life (regardless of his religion -- or lack of religion -- during mortality), he will find himself either in "Paradise" or in "Prison."

Paradise is a place of peace and rest. People often confuse it with Heaven, although they are not one and the same. Jesus told the repentant thief who hung next to Him on the cross that He would see him on that very day in Paradise, and yet three days later, on Easter morning, He told Mary not to touch Him since He had not yet ascended to His Father in Heaven. The wicked, on the other hand, will find themselves in the Spirit Prison. The Spirit Prison could accurately be described as hell, although it need not be a permanent hell. In 1 Peter, Jesus is said to have preached to the spirits in prison during the three days His body lay in the tomb. Judging from what the scriptures say, then, it appears as if He visited those in Paradise and those in Prison before being resurrected.

The scriptures give no indication (or even the slightest hint, for that matter) that either Paradise or the Spirit Prison have since ceased to exist, and we don't believe they have. There have been so many people live and die without ever having had the opportunity to hear the gospel of Jesus Christ that it would hardly be either loving or just for God to condemn them all to an eternity in Hell for something over which they had no control. We believe that the missionary work Christ commissioned His Apostles to carry out continues today in the Spirit World. Those who know of His gospel are testifying to those who don't. Many who lived wicked lives out of ignorance will repent and recognize that they need not be destined to an unending punishment. Other people may have lived good lives, doing the best they knew how in the circumstances into which they were born, even though they did not gain an understanding of the Atonement of Jesus Christ during their lifetimes. At any rate, the gospel will continue to be taught by those who believe to those who died not believing. As a person in the Spirit Prison comes to recognize the power of faith in Christ, he will be released from the Prison and allowed to experience Paradise. By the time of the Last Judgment, when each of us stands before God to be judged, all will have had the chance to hear and understand Christ's message and to either accept or reject the gift of forgivness He offers.

I believe there is no evidence that they are not the same place. There is no evidence that they are the same place. The two do have things in common however. Both are repositories for spirits after their bodies die. Both have an idea of perfection and both have God present. I believe there is enough in common to suggest that they may be the same place.

I believe the yet refers to the time immediately afte His resurrection not to previous times so the argument doesn't hold water. I have not yet drunk my cup of coffee this morning but I have drunk several cups of coffee. Can you see what I am saying?

I do not believe this to be the case. It is possible for God to refrain from re-incarnating the wicked and that might seem like restraint but I doubt God imprisons spirits in any particular place at this time. Spirits will be imprisoned in Hell eventually but not immediately after death except perhaps at the end of the world.

I believe this refers to those who are in the grave. The translators sometimes translated grave as Hell. Eph 4:9 (Now this, He ascended, what is it but that he also descended into the lower parts of the earth?

 

[Muffled]

Yes indeedee! On that fateful day, corpses will go flying skyward up, up, and away out of their graves and crypts, body to body, bones 'a jangling;

"Hey!" one was overheard to shout to another:

"Isn't that MY metatarsal you've got there?" :angel2:

Rejoin the flesh? Why, of course, silly! Why, without flesh, how would you enjoy the Supercalifragilisticexpialidocious titillations of celestial ice cream, sex, fragrances, and visual delights? Don'cha know? Christian Heaven is all about the flesh, on Earth as it is in Heaven, world without end. Amen! Cheeez!

I beleive I am sorry the virgins stay that way. A lot of terrorists who thought they would get lots of sex have been misguided even if there were a chance they would get there. Sex is necessary for reproduction but with eternal life there is no need to reproduce since everybody who is going to be there will be there already.

I believe god gave us physical lives to enjoy and without evil to make things less than enjoyable we should all have a good time.

I don't believe this is likely. I believe spirits will ascend from graves and join a new body but God is capable of creating a new one as opposed to using the old one. So for those cremated there is no bother about worrying about whether there are bones.

 

[godnotgod]

I beleive I am sorry the virgins stay that way. A lot of terrorists who thought they would get lots of sex have been misguided even if there were a chance they would get there. Sex is necessary for reproduction but with eternal life there is no need to reproduce since everybody who is going to be there will be there already.

I believe god gave us physical lives to enjoy and without evil to make things less than enjoyable we should all have a good time.

I don't believe this is likely. I believe spirits will ascend from graves and join a new body but God is capable of creating a new one as opposed to using the old one. So for those cremated there is no bother about worrying about whether there are bones.

So what is the purpose of reunification with the flesh? Why not just be free of it once and for all, and enjoy divine bliss and rapture for eternity without encumbrances?

 

[Nakosis]

So what is the purpose of reunification with the flesh? Why not just be free of it once and for all, and enjoy divine bliss and rapture for eternity without encumbrances?

I'm surprised about the certainty people have about existence after death.

Because I recall other lives and other deaths I believe that existence somehow continues. I even recall in once case the moment of separation. However after that, nothing.

I kind of like the Tibetan Book of the Dead. If I had my rathers, that is how I'd like to believe it happens. However just because I like it to be true doesn't mean I'm going to go about telling others this is what occurs with any certainty.

Faith provides certainty without knowledge. I'm fine with uncertainty because I think that is the reality. A person doesn't know what they don't know. To me, unless you have actual experience with these things, they are just interesting stories.

 

[godnotgod]

I'm surprised about the certainty people have about existence after death.

Because I recall other lives and other deaths I believe that existence somehow continues. I even recall in once case the moment of separation. However after that, nothing.

I kind of like the Tibetan Book of the Dead. If I had my rathers, that is how I'd like to believe it happens. However just because I like it to be true doesn't mean I'm going to go about telling others this is what occurs with any certainty.

Faith provides certainty without knowledge. I'm fine with uncertainty because I think that is the reality. A person doesn't know what they don't know. To me, unless you have actual experience with these things, they are just interesting stories.

I think Awakening is the key to both reincarnation and solving the riddle of death. One might think of reincarnation as the continuation of the state of Identification, or Waking Sleep, which is a karma-driven state, and continues until an Awakening occurs, which is a way-driven state. It is this Awakening that dissolves the dream-state of Identification, and brings the karma-driven life to an end. This is because Awakening is the realization that the self is illusory. Therefore, who lives? Who dies? If there is no self, then who is there that can go round and round on the never ending wheel of birth and death? This leads to the realization of no-birth and no-death, and if that is the case, who or what is it that goes on to an afterlife?

I think most people who do believe in an afterlife see themselves continuing on after death as they now exist, and I think that what is at the root of this belief is what is called Metaphysical Anxiety, a deep seated psychological emotional concern with what will become of them, ie, their egos, as it is based on fear.


'The fundamental difference between Buddhism and other religions is that Buddhism has no God or gods before whom people bow down in return for peace of mind. The spirit enmeshed in the Buddha’s teachings refuses to offer a god in exchange for freedom from anxiety. Instead, freedom from anxiety can only be found at the point where the Self* settles naturally upon itself.'

from: 'From the Zen Kitchen to Enlightenment', by Dogen/Uchiyama

The ultimate experience is the Awakening to the fact that Absolute Joy (sat-chit-ananda) is already the case, as exemplified here:

"From brilliancy I came;
to brilliancy I return.
What, then, is this?"

*Self here does not refer to the self of Identification, but to universal awakened mind.

 

[godnotgod]

Sleep walking............yeah right.

I've heard some people say the dead are only asleep.

Where does that put 'you'?

Not born; not dead.

 

[Muffled]

So what is the purpose of reunification with the flesh? Why not just be free of it once and for all, and enjoy divine bliss and rapture for eternity without encumbrances?

I believe new experiences come from material life. Heaven just has old experiences and fantasy. That gets boring after a while. However I came back from Heaven to evangelize and when the Kingdom comes I will still have opportunity to do so although I am tempted to stay and enjoy life.

I believe I will always have divine bliss and rapture and physical life does not encumber it. Of course if a person has a personal fetish for it I suppose one could be attached to bliss and be encumbered from enjoying life as a monk who is devoted to God but misses out on family.

 

[Muffled]

Sleep walking............yeah right.

I've heard some people say the dead are only asleep.

Where does that put 'you'?

I believe death is often viewed as sleep because the body appears to be sleeping but the idea is that a dead person may appear dead but in some way he is alive.

 

[Thief]

I believe death is often viewed as sleep because the body appears to be sleeping but the idea is that a dead person may appear dead but in some way he is alive.

and science has discovered our brains to be more active when we sleep.

Can't help but wonder about coma.
Can't help but wonder....if the body is no more than a temporary connection.
Designed to expose the new forming sol to the physical creation....
WITHOUT the Spirit directly interfering.

This way you become unique.

Yep.....I sure do think so.

 

[Nakosis]

I don't know if it would make any difference to you or not, but Mormons believe this is something Jesus really wanted to do for us -- purely out of love. It wasn't something that was forced upon Him by His Father.

I can understand the desire to alleviate the pain and suffering of others.
I just have no desire to accept something I didn't earn myself. It's not an ego thing, it's just I think it would be wrong to benefit from someone else's suffering.

That's just a personal thing however.

There are some similarities to what I think happens after death. Though I imagine this earth, live here is the "Spirit Prison". We experience life over and over again until learn/understand what is necessary for us to learn.

Then people get released from this spirit prison. Easier to herd spirits if they believe they are still alive and have something to lose.

 

[Katzpur]

I can understand the desire to alleviate the pain and suffering of others.
I just have no desire to accept something I didn't earn myself. It's not an ego thing, it's just I think it would be wrong to benefit from someone else's suffering.

I can understand that. I just want to explain one further thing, not in an attempt to change your mind, but just to clarify our belief. A lot of Christians -- notably fundamentalist Protestant denominations -- say "All you have to do is believe in Jesus in order to be 'saved.' Nothing more is expected of you." Mormons don't believe that. Self-improvement is very important to us. We believe that we are each responsible to live life the best we possibly can, and that if we do and if we accept Jesus Christ's sacrifice for us, we will not be punished when we fail to live up to the standards we believe have been set for us. I personally feel a whole lot better in believing that than I would feel if I were to think, "Well, Jesus already suffered for me. I'm going to take full advantage of the fact that I'm home free."

 

[Christ's Prophet]

:yes:What happens when you die? You have only to look to experience and stories people have told. Luke 16:19-31 tells the story of the poor man, Lazarus and the rich man who both died. The rich man went to Hell and the poor man went to Heaven. Hell is a place where everything is taken away; it is the spiritual rubbish dump. In it is everyone that has refused God, and therefore God cannot use them. Our souls do indeed go on forever. The existence of our eternity is authenticated by the resurrection of our Lord Jesus Christ, who proclaimed that He has the power over life and death and that He is the perfect Judge. God only formulizes the process of sending people to Hell. People actually send themselves there, by their rejection of Christ. Don’t let anyone trivialize Hell. Don’t let anyone play around with your eternity. Check things out. In the end, Love is the key; a love for God and a love for your fellow man to see that he doesn’t go to Hell.
Albert Brownsey, Certainty For Eternity.

 

[outhouse]

You have only to look to experience and stories people have told. .

So far there has factually never been anyone experienced in any aspect of what happens after your stone cold dead for a day. None what so ever.


And stories are just that, imagination based on wish and want.

Our souls do indeed go on forever.

How so?

Souls, factually do not even exist at this time. It is a concept born of mythology for ancient mens ignorance of what the conscious mind actually is.

You have NO evidence to substantiate your claim outside mythology.

 

[outhouse]

"All you have to do is believe in Jesus in order to be 'saved.' Nothing more is expected of you."

I have always thought that methodology to be hypocritical.


I don't want to go to heaven with a bunch of murders who on their death bed changed belief.

To messy and to many inconsistency with the mythology surrounding ones last trial before the god concept.

 

[InChrist]

I have always thought that methodology to be hypocritical.


I don't want to go to heaven with a bunch of murders who on their death bed changed belief.

To messy and to many inconsistency with the mythology surrounding ones last trial before the god concept.

Actually, the biblical concept of repentance and belief means to turn from self-will and change the wrong direction one has been going in their life and live according to the will of God. So when a person truly repents and submits their life to the Lord a change should be evident.

 

[Ingledsva]

:yes:What happens when you die? You have only to look to experience and stories people have told. Luke 16:19-31 tells the story of the poor man, Lazarus and the rich man who both died. The rich man went to Hell and the poor man went to Heaven. Hell is a place where everything is taken away; it is the spiritual rubbish dump. In it is everyone that has refused God, and therefore God cannot use them. Our souls do indeed go on forever. The existence of our eternity is authenticated by the resurrection of our Lord Jesus Christ, who proclaimed that He has the power over life and death and that He is the perfect Judge. God only formulizes the process of sending people to Hell. People actually send themselves there, by their rejection of Christ. Don’t let anyone trivialize Hell. Don’t let anyone play around with your eternity. Check things out. In the end, Love is the key; a love for God and a love for your fellow man to see that he doesn’t go to Hell.
Albert Brownsey, Certainty For Eternity.

According to the story they both went to Sheol.


There is no Hell or Heaven in this story.



*

 

[InChrist]

According to the story they both went to Sheol.


There is no Hell or Heaven in this story.



*

Maybe so, but Lazarus was with Abraham in comfort and the rich man was in torment with a great gulf fixed between them.

The rich man also died and was buried. And being in torments in Hades, he lifted up his eyes and saw Abraham afar off, and Lazarus in his bosom. “Then he cried and said, ‘Father Abraham, have mercy on me, and send Lazarus that he may dip the tip of his finger in water and cool my tongue; for I am tormented in this flame.’ But Abraham said, ‘Son, remember that in your lifetime you received your good things, and likewise Lazarus evil things; but now he is comforted and you are tormented. And besides all this, between us and you there is a great gulf fixed, so that those who want to pass from here to you cannot, nor can those from there pass to us.’ Luke 16:22-26

 

[Thief]

Maybe so, but Lazarus was with Abraham in comfort and the rich man was in torment with a great gulf fixed between them.

The rich man also died and was buried. And being in torments in Hades, he lifted up his eyes and saw Abraham afar off, and Lazarus in his bosom. “Then he cried and said, ‘Father Abraham, have mercy on me, and send Lazarus that he may dip the tip of his finger in water and cool my tongue; for I am tormented in this flame.’ But Abraham said, ‘Son, remember that in your lifetime you received your good things, and likewise Lazarus evil things; but now he is comforted and you are tormented. And besides all this, between us and you there is a great gulf fixed, so that those who want to pass from here to you cannot, nor can those from there pass to us.’ Luke 16:22-26

So....close enough to see each other.....and close enough to have conversation....

The great gulf is a metaphor within the story.
Guess most people don't catch that.