What Happens When You Die?

[Thief]

A huge part of logic, reason, and rationale is falsifiable evidence. That is how we understand and get what is true. We can say that fire is hot be cause we can touch it and feel the heat. It doesn't matter how many times you go to touch it, you will always feel the heat.
Mysticism teaches us that we can make that heat feel cold.
Mind over matter, etc.

I am sorry, you can step into the fire all you want, but I am most happy not being burnt to a crisp.

Falsify a notion against a preset of mind over matter?

so reality is what you think?...denial sufficient?
Or reality prevails even as you scream the flames don't hurt?

 

[Warren Clark]

I am afraid you are equating the mystical experience with superstition and quackery via the stereotypes you have been taught by the mainstream society. In short, mysticism is not 'mind over matter'. It is spiritual union with the divine source found within oneself. It is via this spiritual union that one's ordinary view of life becomes completely transformed, allowing one to see into the true nature of reality directly. In short, it is to see things as they actually are, rather than to see them as our conditioned (ie; 'rational/conceptual') mind tells us they are, summed up in the following observation:

"The universe is the Absolute as seen through the glass of Time, Space, and Causation"

You see. That is the problem with modern science. It is out of balance with the view afforded by nature. It attempts to make nature an object of clinical analysis via logic and reason. It has failed, and that is why Kaku said what he did, that 'nature is smarter than we are'. Science fails to understand the intelligent nature of the universe. When the conceptual filters of Time, Space, and Causation are removed from the mind, we can then see things as they are, and when we can see things as they are, we will have the right view. Until that occurs, we are only nibbling around the edges with our probes and instruments, gathering data and knowledge, but failing to attain any understanding at all.

Falsify a notion against a preset of mind over matter?

so reality is what you think?...denial sufficient?
Or reality prevails even as you scream the flames don't hurt?

According to some who believe so, you can make whatever you wish be.
When you are cold, all you have to do is think of being warm or something of the sort and you will be warm.

In some cases you can even bend matter to your will.
Bending spoons, and even walking through walls.

Sounds a tad bit insane, don't you think?



There is a show, and yes I know its completely fictional aside from the attempt of adding "real science" into it, Stargate: SG1 and Stargate: Atlantis.

The show takes real theories into consideration making an elaborate show with an amazing story line.
Atlantis is real, it really did sink. Merlin was an "Ancient", who belonged to a superbly advanced civilization.
Their final goal was to reach ascension. This is where your mysticism comes into play.
The thought that we could evolve past our mortal bodies and become pure energy.
Its a fun thought and makes a great show, but there is no reason to believe any of this has any merit in the real world.

 

[godnotgod]

According to some who believe so, you can make whatever you wish be.
When you are cold, all you have to do is think of being warm or something of the sort and you will be warm.

In some cases you can even bend matter to your will.
Bending spoons, and even walking through walls.

Sounds a tad bit insane, don't you think?

It is now documented that Tibetan monks can raise their skin temperatures by as much as 17 degrees F, and sleep outside in the snow in zero degree weather @ a 15,000 foot altitude in nothing more than their robes.

It is also documented that these same monks, through years of meditative practice, actually grow thicker cerebral cortexes than the average human, proof that consciousness produces the brain, and not the other way around as science has it.

Scientists also found a group in Sikkim, India that could lower their metabolism by 64 percent. For perspective on how remarkable this is, when you sleep your metabolism drops only 10-15 percent. See here:

Tibetan Monks Can Raise the Temperature of Their Skin Through Meditation

On a personal level, I attribute my calmness and clarity to my continued breathing excercises, which lowers my heart rate and keeps my blood pressue down. I am 67. Japanese women attribute their longevity and stamina to kinhin, a walking meditation.

There is a show, and yes I know its completely fictional aside from the attempt of adding "real science" into it, Stargate: SG1 and Stargate: Atlantis.

The show takes real theories into consideration making an elaborate show with an amazing story line.
Atlantis is real, it really did sink. Merlin was an "Ancient", who belonged to a superbly advanced civilization.
Their final goal was to reach ascension. This is where your mysticism comes into play.
The thought that we could evolve past our mortal bodies and become pure energy.
Its a fun thought and makes a great show, but there is no reason to believe any of this has any merit in the real world.

'Real world'? What do you mean?

Here...check this out....

[youtube]LJThU1jDT2o[/youtube]
Measurement Problem - Reality is an Illusion - YouTube

 

[godnotgod]

Their final goal was to reach ascension. This is where your mysticism comes into play.
The thought that we could evolve past our mortal bodies and become pure energy.
Its a fun thought and makes a great show, but there is no reason to believe any of this has any merit in the real world.

You see, the problem is that we conceive of the 'physical' and the 'spiritual' as distinct from each other. Those are only concepts. In reality, they are one and the same. We already ARE pure energy, just as a wave is pure energy, but manifests as form.

What you think is mysticism is incorrect. The mystic understands that the ordinary world is also the miraculous. They are one and the same. This is it. There is no 'other'. In other words, after the enlightenment process, you will find yourself right where you are in this eternal Present Moment; not in some pie in the sky ethereal 'other' world into which you have ascended; the 'ascended' world is right where you stand. It's just that your mind will have become completely transformed by the experience.

"Before I became Enlightened, trees were just trees, and mountains just mountains.
During my study, trees were no longer trees, and mountains no longer mountains.
When I became enlightened, trees were once again trees, and mountains once again mountains."

 

[atanu]

A stone doesn't think therefore it doesn't exist? A stone doesn't exist because it doesn't think?

You are correct, though.

Universe exists for the conscious. There is no proof that a stone exists without consciousness viewing it. Your question also arises only because you are conscious. That is the first truth in any observation and beneath every conclusion.

But unfortunately, some scientists deny the conscious self of the present to conclude that conscious rose from stones. They deny the very consciousness that leads them to make such unthinking conclusion. And thus they deny the immortal consciousness.

If consciousness rose determnistically from stones then what value the so-called scientific conclusions have? These could never be any different. In short, some scientists deny the science itself.

 

[ArtieE]

Universe exists for the conscious. There is no proof that a stone exists without consciousness viewing it.

Look at a stone. Use logic, reason and common sense and the evidence of your senses and conclude that the stone exists. Close your eyes. Use logic, reason and common sense and conclude that the stone didn't suddenly cease to objectively exist just because you closed your eyes.

 

[atanu]

Look at a stone. Use logic, reason and common sense and the evidence of your senses and conclude that the stone exists. Close your eyes. Use logic, reason and common sense and conclude that the stone didn't suddenly cease to objectively exist just because you closed your eyes.

Thanks ArtieE



Just because eyes are closed does not mean that consciousness is also closed. And that is the point.

 

[NIX]

"No matter where you go, there you are."

I'm goin with that one.

 

[ArtieE]

Thanks ArtieE



Just because eyes are closed does not mean that consciousness is also closed. And that is the point.

If hypothecially every existing creature with "consciousness" became "unconscious" would the stone objectively cease to exist?

 

[atanu]

If hypothecially every existing creature with "consciousness" became "unconscious" would the stone objectively cease to exist?

you tell me.

 

[ArtieE]

you tell me.

No why would the stone cease to exist even though nothing conscious perceived it?

 

[godnotgod]

No why would the stone cease to exist even though nothing conscious perceived it?

When you look at the stone without naming it, is there then a stone?......where is the stone, Artie?

 

[atanu]

No why would the stone cease to exist even though nothing conscious perceived it?

Can you even imagine the words 'objective' and 'subjective' without the conscious self? Can you even imagine the question of existence or non-existence?

 

[ArtieE]

When you look at the stone without naming it, is there then a stone?......where is the stone, Artie?

You are not making any sense at all. Of course the stone exists whether I name the round hard lump a stone or not. It exists no matter what I name it.

 

[ArtieE]

Can you even imagine the words 'objective' and 'subjective' without the conscious self? Can you even imagine the question of existence or non-existence?

Why wouldn't a stone exist just because I couldn't imagine or could imagine something?

 

[godnotgod]

You are not making any sense at all. Of course the stone exists whether I name the round hard lump a stone or not. It exists no matter what I name it.

If it exists, what is it that exists?

 

[godnotgod]

No why would the stone cease to exist even though nothing conscious perceived it?

An electron does not exist until a conscious entity is observing it, ala Quantum Mechanics.

 

[ArtieE]

If it exists, what is it that exists?

Depends on the sensory organs of the being experiencing it and any number of other factors. To an American it might be a stone to me being Norwegian it's a "stein". What exists is the material object how we experience it doesn't change the object one bit.

 

[ArtieE]

An electron does not exist until a conscious entity is observing it, ala Quantum Mechanics.

You think there's no difference between the properties of a subatomic particle and a stone?

 

[thau]

It means Chopra is nothing more than a grand speculator tyring to impress man and also acquire accolades upon himself. He is a dreamer.

Jesus contradicts his musings. So does the Word. So do the saints. I think he's boring, myself.