What Happens When You Die?

[horizon_mj1]

In Biblical terms Jesus turned the other cheek, but you only have so many cheeks to turn and was this not shown in relation to Jesus' anger toward the Church? As far as arguing what "physically" exists beyond the physical existence is a mute conversation for most for they can only see what is before their eyes and not what is in the Soul.

 

[Thief]

The Carpenter did not say HE was inside you; he said the kingdom of God is within.

God is still an object to you. God cannot be encapsulated via object, form, definition, image, etc. It is the ESSENCE of the divine that is within, not a person. YOU are that essence. It is the 'I Am'.



It's a troubled voyage in perfectly calm weather.



You can take the long way home, if you wish. I think I'll stay right here, at home.

Apparently it depends on what day of the week it happens to be.....
One day you argue that I don't exist and this is all illusion....
Then you tell me I AM the essence.

White man speak with forked tongue.....again.
old Indian saying.

 

[ZenMonkey]

'Jesus' IS the problem, because it is a fabrication that has been developed over a long period of time, especially by Paul. Having said that, I firmly believe there was an original personage whose name was Yeshu upon whom this fabrication was spun into the modern myth that has become 'Jesus'. There was no such 'Jesus' in the 1st century.


Yeshua (or Yahushua) bar Yosef (Yeshua, son of Joseph) is the original Aramaic name for Jesus the Nazarene. His parents, siblings, disciples, and followers called him by that name. The name "Jesus" is a misspelling and mispronunciation that resulted from the translation of Yeshua's name after his death, first into the Greek Iesous (pronounced "ee-ay-SUS"), and then from the Greek Iesous into the Latin Iesus. The Latin Iesus ("ee-ay-SUS") wasn't pronounced as "Jesus" with a "J" because the letter "j" didn't come into the English language until the middle of the seventeenth century. The King James Bible, written at the beginning of the seventeenth century, has the name Iesous ("ee-ay-sus"), with no "j." So even in English, no one spoke the name "Jesus" until sometime after the middle of the seventeenth century.

Yeshua before 30 CE

If you'r good believing the biblical Jesus is made up, then that's cool with me. I won't try to convince you otherwise. I really don't care. It doesn't matter what you believe. It doesn't matter what I believe either. I'll stick with him just the same. He's a pretty cool cat to hang with. He reminds me a lot of Lenny Kravitz.

The other way of saying 'place on a pedestal' is simply 'projection of the ego', but you don't see that because your ego is in the way. Yes, YOU placed them on pedestals....YOU! You fail to understand the significance of the Ordinary and the Miraculous as being one and the same. What this tells me is that you have not yet had a transformative experience that allows you to see that. You are still in the sphere of belief and idolatrous love.

If you truly love Jesus and follow his teachings, and you are offended by what you perceive as insults, then you should forgive me instead of taking up arms and getting all huffy.

I love and respect those who deserve it. I still love those who I haven't much respect for, even those who don't like me much. I love humanity. The murderer on death row I love but I don't have much respect for him. There's a difference between love and respect. Also, I do forgive, but I won't roll over either. Love and forgiveness doesn't mean a person should allow others to be abusive. Love can be like a she bear protecting her cubs also.

'Christians who judge me?' I thought Christians were instructed NOT to judge others. As for you, you have been making false judgments about me all through this thread, pointing the finger of accusation rather than trying to understand what is being pointed to.

The fatal error you continue to make is to discriminate between the 'worthy' and the 'unworthy', making your 'love' a personal thing, when it should be indiscriminate, like the supreme love of the Sun. Until you see beyond your own ego, you won't understand that, and will continue to become offended due to your emotional attachment to your idol. You seem not to understand Yeshu's dictum:

'Be thou wise as serpents and harmless as doves'

You should probably look in the mirror. You've done nothing less.

There must be a balance between the cool intellect and the passion of the heart. You seem absorbed by the passion of the heart and are quick to anger in defense and subsequently, offense. The Buddha fully understood this in developing his philosophy of the Middle Path, in which he realized that all dual views were extreme views.

BTW, there is no such 'Buddha' to love as an object, 'Buddha' being an inner experience rather than an external divine figure like 'Jesus'. In fact, Yeshu is also an inner experience rather than an external divine figure. This is the true meaning of 'I Am'.

I'm not angry. I did have my say in the matter ... as if I'd just roll over and let your accusations and judgments go unchallenged.

I guess you're still looking for a role model, an ideal to emulate. But you need look no further than what is inside of you, and no, not your ego. You say you love the Buddha, but if you really did, you would understand what he said, and that is:[/COLOR]

'Place no head above your own'

Shocked? Find out why.

I choose love. that's enough for me. Jesus, and many others are lights who lived through this spirit. They are examples of who I myself can be and will be and already am. Had you truly attempted to understand my position, you'd realize this by now. I made it abundantly clear. It's not the people that are being idolized (worshiped) it's the spirit they live through. It's what they did and gave of themselves that I find so honorable (respectable). You're more like a clanging cymbal. One day you might understand why I say this.

 

[godnotgod]

If you'r good believing the biblical Jesus is made up, then that's cool with me. I won't try to convince you otherwise. I really don't care. It doesn't matter what you believe. It doesn't matter what I believe either. I'll stick with him just the same. He's a pretty cool cat to hang with. He reminds me a lot of Lenny Kravitz.

Zen Monkey is Jesus, playing Hide and Seek with himself.

I have more to indicate that Jesus is a myth than you have to show that he isn't.

I love and respect those who deserve it. I still love those who I haven't much respect for, even those who don't like me much. I love humanity. The murderer on death row I love but I don't have much respect for him. There's a difference between love and respect. Also, I do forgive, but I won't roll over either. Love and forgiveness doesn't mean a person should allow others to be abusive. Love can be like a she bear protecting her cubs also.

I neither deserve nor not-deserve; am neither worthy nor not-worthy. What then? You make your love and respect conditional. If you truly did love and respect, you would do so unconditionally. I refuse to jump through hoops for you or your 'Jesus' just to 'earn' such love and respect. Stop playing games. Bottom line is that love and respect are not contingent upon what you do, but what you are. To do so based on what one does is to judge them, and that, Zen Monkey (whaaaaa?) goes against what Jesus said.

You should probably look in the mirror. You've done nothing less.

You're just circumventing the issue. You discriminate, which is judgment.

I'm not angry. I did have my say in the matter ... as if I'd just roll over and let your accusations and judgments go unchallenged.

Instead of addressing the information I provided, you chose instead to feel insulted. Can you address the issue of ego projection, or not? Or are you even aware that it occurs, or is applicable to the question of Jesus? Can you admit that it is?

I choose love. that's enough for me. Jesus, and many others are lights who lived through this spirit. They are examples of who I myself can be and will be and already am. Had you truly attempted to understand my position, you'd realize this by now. I made it abundantly clear. It's not the people that are being idolized (worshiped) it's the spirit they live through. It's what they did and gave of themselves that I find so honorable (respectable). You're more like a clanging cymbal. One day you might understand why I say this.

You say you choose love, as if others who don't revere your Jesus do not. It's simply that many of us do not see Jesus as a reality, but more as a principle.

I'm sure that if you were to ask the people you idolize and honor about it, they would just tell you that it is Nothing Special; that is simply their nature to do the things they do. If you were awake, you would see that as well, but you want to make some 'Special Case' about it, and place them on pedestals, which is none other than Idolatrous Love, a projection of your ego.

But all of that is really besides the point, in the context of the topic:

How does the shedding of allegedly divine blood, and the symbolic or actual drinking of divine blood and eating of divine flesh cause one to be 'saved' and enjoy an afterlife in some heaven?

I cannot place any credibility upon this belief. What do you have to support it?

BTW, what is the significance of your avatar name, 'Zen Monkey'?

 

[godnotgod]

In Biblical terms Jesus turned the other cheek, but you only have so many cheeks to turn and was this not shown in relation to Jesus' anger toward the Church? As far as arguing what "physically" exists beyond the physical existence is a mute conversation for most for they can only see what is before their eyes and not what is in the Soul.

And even seeing both still cannot convince that a 'physicality exists beyond the physical existence.'

That's curious, though, because it seems to me that Christianity is all about the flesh, rather than the spirit, as presented. Not only did Jesus ascend physically and spiritually into the sky, but the rest of us will as sell on Judgment Day, save those who are deemed 'unworthy'. It just makes me wonder what the fate of the victims of Hiroshima, for example, whose bodies were vaporized, might be. That we might enjoy the pleasures of the flesh to the nth degree in some future heaven, or the agony of the flesh in some forgotten hell, is, in my view, a child's view of reality. In fact, if you think about it, for those who think in punitive terms, the flesh is central.

 

[godnotgod]

Apparently it depends on what day of the week it happens to be.....
One day you argue that I don't exist and this is all illusion....
Then you tell me I AM the essence.

If you exist, then you also not-exist, by definition. Existence is temporal, like a cloud that appears and disappears in the sky.

'I Am' is not about temporal existence, but about being, which is eternal. It is your essence, not your form, not your identity, not your history.

Why else do you think Yeshu said: 'Before Abraham was, I Am'?

If you cling to your existence, and want to carry it onward beyond death into some imaginary afterlife, then you are in the state of Identification, and asleep.

When you awaken, you see that your Identity is fiction, and that your true nature (I Am) has always been the case, and that there is no 'before and after'. There is only this eternal present moment.

 

[outhouse]

but about being, which is eternal.

.

Being is not eternal.

"Being" is about life and existing, that is something that factually ends with your death.

To date, afterlife is only taken on faith by certain religions. It is not fact, or scientific, nor does it carry any credibility because you want it too.

If you exist, then you also not-exist, by definition

Sorry but that does not make any sense as written.

By definition, you are one or the other.

'I Am' is not about temporal existence

This is your PERSONAL definition, not everyone elses.

 

[ZenMonkey]

Zen Monkey is Jesus, playing Hide and Seek with himself.

Not Jesus - Just another Christ in the making

I have more to indicate that Jesus is a myth than you have to show that he isn't.

Well, my Johnson is bigger than yours. And and I can pee further than you too.

I neither deserve nor not-deserve; am neither worthy nor not-worthy. What then? You make your love and respect conditional. If you truly did love and respect, you would do so unconditionally. I refuse to jump through hoops for you or your 'Jesus' just to 'earn' such love and respect. Stop playing games. Bottom line is that love and respect are not contingent upon what you do, but what you are. To do so based on what one does is to judge them, and that, Zen Monkey (whaaaaa?) goes against what Jesus said.

You mistake a couple things actually. I do love equally, and I likewise show as much respect as I am shown. I have respect (reverence) for those who are respectable and worthy of such veneration. I show respect to all until I'm disrespected. I love and show love to all. If you want to be respected, then don't wiz in the pool. No point in going through hoops ... just be an honorable person. Be a Buddha. :beach:

You're just circumventing the issue. You discriminate, which is judgment.

Speak for yourself. I hold greater honor for those who show they are honorable. I hold less honor for those who show they are less honorable. We know them by their fruits.

Instead of addressing the information I provided, you chose instead to feel insulted. Can you address the issue of ego projection, or not? Or are you even aware that it occurs, or is applicable to the question of Jesus? Can you admit that it is?

I didn't choose to be insulted, I was insulted. There was no choice involved. It was passing, however. You were being a tool and disrespectful too, so I called you on your BS. I'll continue to do so.

You say you choose love, as if others who don't revere your Jesus do not. It's simply that many of us do not see Jesus as a reality, but more as a principle.

I'm sure that if you were to ask the people you idolize and honor about it, they would just tell you that it is Nothing Special; that is simply their nature to do the things they do. If you were awake, you would see that as well, but you want to make some 'Special Case' about it, and place them on pedestals, which is none other than Idolatrous Love, a projection of your ego.

I'll have honor for whom I will have honor. I love all. I show respect to all, but I reserve my veneration for those who have proven to be honorable. We know them by their fruits. It's not difficult.

How does the shedding of allegedly divine blood, and the symbolic or actual drinking of divine blood and eating of divine flesh cause one to be 'saved' and enjoy an afterlife in some heaven?

I cannot place any credibility upon this belief. What do you have to support it?

We're not being saved from death, we're being saved (free'd) from ignorance. Again, literal blood and literal flesh has nothing to do with it. Pay attention to 'our' conversation. Death is illusory. When I die I will return to where I always was, which is to say I'll continue living. We all will.

BTW, what is the significance of your avatar name, 'Zen Monkey'?

I dig the Zen vibe when it's truly Zen and I'm a big fan of Hanuman.


Hanuman


ZM

 

[godnotgod]

We're not being saved from death, we're being saved (free'd) from ignorance. Again, literal blood and literal flesh has nothing to do with it. Pay attention to 'our' conversation. Death is illusory. When I die I will return to where I always was, which is to say I'll continue living. We all will.

That's way more Buddhist than Christian. Most Christians hold that Jesus died for their sins via literal flesh and blood sacrifice on the cross. Jesus has the disciples drinking his blood and eating his flesh symbolically at the Last Supper specifically as a means of sin redemption. Behind that, the idea is that Jesus came to Earth to die on the cross as the ultimate sacrifice that would re-open the gates of Paradise that Adam and Eve had closed with Original Sin. At least that's the most common Christian scenario/doctrine. The other part of the doctrine actually does state that we are saved from death; from the 'eternal grave',

You won't return to where you always are because you never left. You'll simply awaken to that fact.

Hanuman? What does he have to do with Zen?

Does the 'Monkey' part of your avatar have to do with the idea of 'monkey mind' in Zen?

 

[godnotgod]

Being is not eternal.

"Being" is about life and existing, that is something that factually ends with your death.

To date, afterlife is only taken on faith by certain religions. It is not fact, or scientific, nor does it carry any credibility because you want it too.

Being is not existence. It is what is behind both existence and non-existence. It has no opposite. It is outside of time and space; it is formless, tasteless, invisible, silent, odorless.

If you exist, you do so in time and space. That's how you tell.

Sorry but that does not make any sense as written.

By definition, you are one or the other.

But you can only be one or the other BECAUSE of their opposites. These are relative values, neither of which can exist without its counterpart. You cannot exist without first having not-existed. Together they make up existence/non-existence, or more accurately, manifestation/non-manifestation as encompassed by Being. I am here providing a working definition of how I am using the word 'being' as compared to the dualistic definition of being as contrasted with non-being, which is mere existence.

This is your PERSONAL definition, not everyone elses.

What other definitions are there?

 

[godnotgod]

Not Jesus - Just another Christ in the making

Heaven save us all!

Well, my Johnson is bigger than yours. And and I can pee further than you too.

I'm sure both fantasies are founded on the same basis as that of the Jesus myth. But not to worry; your secret is safe with me. :biglaugh:

You mistake a couple things actually. I do love equally, and I likewise show as much respect as I am shown. I have respect (reverence) for those who are respectable and worthy of such veneration. I show respect to all until I'm disrespected. I love and show love to all. If you want to be respected, then don't wiz in the pool. No point in going through hoops ... just be an honorable person. Be a Buddha. :beach:

Speak for yourself. I hold greater honor for those who show they are honorable. I hold less honor for those who show they are less honorable. We know them by their fruits.

I'll have honor for whom I will have honor. I love all. I show respect to all, but I reserve my veneration for those who have proven to be honorable. We know them by their fruits. It's not difficult.

blah, blah, blah....



Without Action

Not praising the worthy prevents contention,
Not esteeming the valuable prevents theft,
Not displaying the beautiful prevents desire.

In this manner the sage governs people:
Emptying their minds,
Filling their bellies,
Weakening their ambitions,
And strengthening their bones.

If people lack knowledge and desire
Then they can not act;
If no action is taken
Harmony remains.

Tao te Ching, Ch 3
*****
Hypocrisy

When the Way is forgotten
Duty and justice appear;
Then knowledge and wisdom are born
Along with hypocrisy.

When harmonious relationships dissolve
Then respect and devotion arise;
When a nation falls to chaos
Then loyalty and patriotism are born.

Tao te Ching, Ch 18
*****

Truly free

Since I abruptly realized the unborn,
I have had no reason for joy and sorrow
At any honor or disgrace.

Song of Enlightenment, Ch 23

Commentary: "Once you are in harmony with the Tao, honour and disgrace cease to matter to you. This is incredible. You have got rid of your ego to such an extent that your own reputation cannot touch you. What an incredible form of independence. You are beyond the influence of flattery or abuse. You are immune to praise and public forms of acclaim. The way people look at you cannot influence you positively or negatively in your resolve. You will not act to become popular, nor will you shut up because you are afraid of what others might say. You can think with great clarity, unimpeded by the shackles of your own vanity. You will even stand against the majority if you feel you have to, and you will not flinch, for disgrace does not touch you.

If I have ever read a definition of true power and freedom, this is it."
*****
Total harmony, complete insight

High in the Himalayas, only fei-ni grass grows.
Here cows produce pure and delicious milk,
And this food I continually enjoy.
One universal Dharma encloses all Dharmas.
One moon is reflected in many waters;
All the water-moons are from the one moon.
The Dharma-body of all Buddhas has entered my own nature,
And my nature becomes one with the Tathagata.
One level completely contains all levels;
It is not matter, mind or activity.
In an instant eighty-thousand teachings are fulfilled;
In a twinkling the evil of eons is destroyed.
All categories are no category;
What relation have these to my insight?
Beyond praise, beyond blame,
Like space itself it has no bounds.

Song of Enlightenment, Ch 36


Jos - Shodoka

So when you finally become a Christ, will you be wise enough to know how to place yourself above both praise and blame, thereby avoiding indulgence in the dual world, and all the emotions that come with being insulted or proud? You will never become a Christ so long as you allow yourself indulgence in insult, posturing defense and offense. That is beneath the sage. Don't you know? Respect and disrespect; honor and dishonor; praise and blame: all born of the same root.

And, oh, BTW, no one has ever 'become' a Buddha or a Christ. Such goings on are neither Budda-like nor Christ-like, since that which seeks to become them is neither.

 

[Thief]

If you exist, then you also not-exist, by definition. Existence is temporal, like a cloud that appears and disappears in the sky.

'I Am' is not about temporal existence, but about being, which is eternal. It is your essence, not your form, not your identity, not your history.

Why else do you think Yeshu said: 'Before Abraham was, I Am'?

If you cling to your existence, and want to carry it onward beyond death into some imaginary afterlife, then you are in the state of Identification, and asleep.

When you awaken, you see that your Identity is fiction, and that your true nature (I Am) has always been the case, and that there is no 'before and after'. There is only this eternal present moment.

I AM...transcends you post.

Was ...is....and shall always be.

We are destined to share that ability.

 

[Aupmanyav]

One does not return to a far off place. When I (as they term it) die, I would not go to Timbuktoo. Most of what I am constituted of will remain in Delhi itself after my cremation, in the atomosphere, in the soil, in millions of living and non-living things where the atoms constituting my body go. Of course, the calcium part will to to River Ganges in Haridwar when my bones are immersed there and will form the part of sedimentary system there.

Life and death are illusions. Nothing substantial is born or dies. Only the sense of 'self', dissolves in nature. May not be worded correctly, but the grand picture is this.

 

[ZenMonkey]

Heaven save us all!



I'm sure both fantasies are founded on the same basis as that of the Jesus myth. But not to worry; your secret is safe with me. :biglaugh:


So when you finally become a Christ, will you be wise enough to know how to place yourself above both praise and blame, thereby avoiding indulgence in the dual world, and all the emotions that come with being insulted or proud? You will never become a Christ so long as you allow yourself indulgence in insult, posturing defense and offense. That is beneath the sage. Don't you know? Respect and disrespect; honor and dishonor; praise and blame: all born of the same root.

Speak to what you know. You're not nearly as astute as you think yourself to be. I claim love. God is love. I claim life. God is life. I have a heart, and emotions are a part of having a heart. While you may choose indifference and callousness, I have chosen love. Love feels and that's just a fact of life.

And, oh, BTW, no one has ever 'become' a Buddha or a Christ. Such goings on are neither Budda-like nor Christ-like, since that which seeks to become them is neither.[/COLOR]

Christ simply means anointed one of God (God is love) - beyond that the term Christ has little meaning. There are many anointed of God on earth today. There have been many in the past and will be many more in the future. We are the body of Christ after all and temples of the living God. Love unites all things in heaven and earth through Christ. All things in heaven and earth will be united through us in other words. We are the body of Christ. In love is our union (reconciliation) with our Heavenly Father. It's the "marriage" (union) of the lamb. Through this union we become one with God, just as Jesus was one with God and became a Christ (anointed of God). What you call Christ consciousness is a shadow of the reality I just alluded to. I'm not Jesus nor am I (The Christ) but I Am a Christ in the making, as we all are. We are sons and daughters of God. God is life and God is love.


ZM

 

[godnotgod]

Speak to what you know. You're not nearly as astute as you think yourself to be. I claim love. God is love. I claim life. God is life. I have a heart, and emotions are a part of having a heart. While you may choose indifference and callousness, I have chosen love. Love feels and that's just a fact of life.

Though my heart is on fire, my eyes are as cold as dead ashes.

Christ simply means anointed one of God (God is love) - beyond that the term Christ has little meaning. There are many anointed of God on earth today. There have been many in the past and will be many more in the future. We are the body of Christ after all and temples of the living God. Love unites all things in heaven and earth through Christ. All things in heaven and earth will be united through us in other words. We are the body of Christ. In love is our union (reconciliation) with our Heavenly Father. It's the "marriage" (union) of the lamb. Through this union we become one with God, just as Jesus was one with God and became a Christ (anointed of God). What you call Christ consciousness is a shadow of the reality I just alluded to. I'm not Jesus nor am I (The Christ) but I Am a Christ in the making, as we all are. We are sons and daughters of God. God is life and God is love.

That is just your belief, whose argument is erroneous because it means God is discriminating between the annointed and the not-annointed. IOW, your concept of God discriminates; has a preference for one over the other. It also states that we become one with God, but the reality is that union is already the case. It has always been the case. Anything else is delusion. What you fail to understand is that the gifts of the Incarnaiton were already given from the get-go. There is no need for 'annointing'. We are already annointed by default. All that is necessary is to awaken to the fact.

Unconditiional love has no preferences. That's why the Buddha recognized that everything has 'buddha nature'. He did not discriminate between that which did and that which did not, because there is nothing that is without it.

Christ consciousness is no shadow; it is the state of completeness and union. Otherwise it would not be Christ consciousness. What is shadow is the ego always becoming, always seeking. But the ego cannot become that which it seeks because it is an illusion.

You keep talking about Christ, but there is no Christ when union is realized. There is only union with everything. Otherwise it cannot be true union. 'Christ' just dissolves into the Infinite. You continue to discriminate, separating reality from itself.

"When an ordinary man gains wisdom, he becomes a sage; when a sage gains understanding, he becomes an ordinary man"

You have yet to come full circle and once again become an ordinary man. 'Christ' is 'Nothing Special'.

 

[Straw Dog]

Q: So... Deepak Chopra, as I know him [questioner taps the sitting Chopra solidly on the knee for effect] my friend Chopra... doesn't exist?

Chopra: A transient behavior of... the total universe.

What do you think Chopra means when he says:

"What happens when you die, is you return to where you always are."

It might mean that he doesn't want to take responsibility for his own existence and would rather annihilate his subjectivity in order to elude mortality awareness.

Is he really any more satisfied than the rest of us?

If I may ask godnotgod, are you any more complete realizing "Oneness"?

What's the point?

 

[Thief]

Christ consciousness is no shadow; it is the state of completeness and union. Otherwise it would not be Christ consciousness. What is shadow is the ego always becoming, always seeking. But the ego cannot become that which it seeks because it is an illusion.

You keep talking about Christ, but there is no Christ when union is realized. There is only union with everything. Otherwise it cannot be true union. 'Christ' just dissolves into the Infinite. You continue to discriminate, separating reality from itself.

"When an ordinary man gains wisdom, he becomes a sage; when a sage gains understanding, he becomes an ordinary man"

You have yet to come full circle and once again become an ordinary man. 'Christ' is 'Nothing Special'.

We have linear existence.
Circular reasoning is shallow.

 

[ZenMonkey]

Though my heart is on fire, my eyes are as cold as dead ashes.


That is just your belief, whose argument is erroneous because it means God is discriminating between the annointed and the not-annointed. IOW, your concept of God discriminates; has a preference for one over the other. It also states that we become one with God, but the reality is that union is already the case. It has always been the case. Anything else is delusion. What you fail to understand is that the gifts of the Incarnaiton were already given from the get-go. There is no need for 'annointing'. We are already annointed by default. All that is necessary is to awaken to the fact.

Unconditiional love has no preferences. That's why the Buddha recognized that everything has 'buddha nature'. He did not discriminate between that which did and that which did not, because there is nothing that is without it.

Christ consciousness is no shadow; it is the state of completeness and union. Otherwise it would not be Christ consciousness. What is shadow is the ego always becoming, always seeking. But the ego cannot become that which it seeks because it is an illusion.

You keep talking about Christ, but there is no Christ when union is realized. There is only union with everything. Otherwise it cannot be true union. 'Christ' just dissolves into the Infinite. You continue to discriminate, separating reality from itself.

"When an ordinary man gains wisdom, he becomes a sage; when a sage gains understanding, he becomes an ordinary man"

You have yet to come full circle and once again become an ordinary man. 'Christ' is 'Nothing Special'.

We're all the same and I've said nothing less. I love all people and I show respect to all people. Some just happen to be more revered by my because of what they give of themselves. Do you revere child rapists, murderers, and terrorists? I do not revere any of these. Love them as people I do, and would even show them respect in our dealings unless disrespected first. Those I revere are those who serve the needs of others and they deserve such veneration. - You seem to revere no one -

 

[godnotgod]

We're all the same and I've said nothing less. I love all people and I show respect to all people. Some just happen to be more revered by my because of what they give of themselves. Do you revere child rapists, murderers, and terrorists? I do not revere any of these. Love them as people I do, and would even show them respect in our dealings unless disrespected first. Those I revere are those who serve the needs of others and they deserve such veneration. - You seem to revere no one -

The issue is not whether I revere or love anyone; Idolatrous Love is not reverence; it is projection of the ego onto another. It is not about the 'other', but about oneself, and how oneself sees the 'other'.

Essentially, you have stated that Jesus saves us from death through his own sacrificial death, which is just an extrapolation of earlier superstitious beliefs, namely, that of the scapegoat, animal sacrifice for sin redemption, and the slaughter and consumption of the Paschal Lamb, Jesus being the spotless, and therefore 'worthy', 'Lamb of God'. Does this 'salvation' apply to all, including child rapists, murderers, and terrorists, or just to those who believe that it does?

 

[Thief]

I don't believe in scapegoating.
However the Carpenter is my Inspiration.

There are lines drawn.