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What has Sarah Palin actually done?

A

angellous_evangellous

Guest
Hi Contentius,



The next step is to show how many of the 25% teens with an STD were abstinence-only education. And a rather simple question to pose is how many teens would have an STD if they abstained from sexual activity.

Being taught abstinence is not the same thing as practicing it. :facepalm:

You're right, you've asked a simple question... too simple, in fact.

You should compare the teens who were taught "safe sex" who have STDs and compare that to teens who were taught "abstinence only" and have STDs. In both cases, the sex education methods have failed in some respect.

It's already well known that teens who are taught abstinence only are more likely not to use condoms or other forms of birth control. Not teaching kids about these methods seems inhuman and misanthropic to me.
 
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Magic Man

Reaper of Conversation
Hi mball,
It looks like we are both guessing here. But it seems to be an important question.

Hey, if you want to consider mine a guess, go ahead, but it's like:
Me: The world is round.
You: The world is flat.

They might both be guesses, but mine is definitely 20,000 times more likely than yours.

What are you talking about? I point to a fact (25% of teens with an STD) and it seems that this is not what it was like before 'safe sex' education. No one here has adequately explained this. Contentius has come close.

Wow, that's quite the misleading technique. I guess you're well versed in that being a conservative, though.

Here's another fact for you that you should like, considering your idea of logic:

Did you know that the less pirates there were in the world, the more global warming there was? I'd say that obviously points to a lack of pirates being the cause of global warming.

This is a nice evasion. The social science on clear on mongoamy (in the context of marriage). It is better for the people involved and children than a promiscuous lifestyle.

Sooooo...let's try this one more time:

Why is having sex with only one person your whole life better than having sex with several people?

I'm going to start taking bets on the over-under of number of times I have to say this to get a real response from you. I'm putting it at infinity, and I'm going with the over.
 

Joe_Stocks

Back from the Dead
Hi angellous,

Being taught abstinence is not the same thing as practicing it. :facepalm:

You're right, you've asked a simple question... too simple, in fact.

You should compare the teens who were taught "safe sex" who have STDs and compare that to teens who were taught "abstinence only" and have STDs. In both cases, the sex education methods have failed in some respect.

It's already well known that teens who are taught abstinence only are more likely not to use condoms or other forms of birth control. Not teaching kids about these methods seems inhuman and misanthropic to me.

Obviously, being a conservative I believe it is up to each school board as to what it teaches in their sex ed programs.

However, I am skeptical of the claim that the 25% of teens that have an STD were taught abstinence only education.
 

Joe_Stocks

Back from the Dead
Hi mball,

Wow, that's quite the misleading technique. I guess you're well versed in that being a conservative, though.

Here's another fact for you that you should like, considering your idea of logic:

Did you know that the less pirates there were in the world, the more global warming there was? I'd say that obviously points to a lack of pirates being the cause of global warming.

Why are teens infected by STDs at a higher rate now than before?

Sooooo...let's try this one more time:

Why is having sex with only one person your whole life better than having sex with several people?

I'm going to start taking bets on the over-under of number of times I have to say this to get a real response from you. I'm putting it at infinity, and I'm going with the over.


I posted the link, if you don't want to discuss it then that's your prerogative.
 

xkatz

Well-Known Member
Besides claiming that she can see Russia from her house (the people deny that she ever said that), what else has she done? What are her policies, what is she planning to do as president?

She wants to gun down liberals in DC from a helicopter.
 

Vile Atheist

Loud and Obnoxious
Hi angellous,



Obviously, being a conservative I believe it is up to each school board as to what it teaches in their sex ed programs.

However, I am skeptical of the claim that the 25% of teens that have an STD were taught abstinence only education.

You don't get the point.

Compare a group of kids who have been taught safe sex to a group that was taught abstinence-only.

What I posted shows that the kids who pledge abstinence are not only more likely to have sex, they are more likely to develop disease or get pregnant because they haven't been taught safe sex.

What I posted shows that kids who are taught about safe sex not only have sex slightly less than kids who are taught abstinence only, but the fewer acquire STDs because they are educated in safe sex and are more (obviously) more likely to put that knowledge to work in protecting themselves.


What you are doing is simply reporting 25% of teens have STDs and then merely assuming they've all had sex education. Equal sex education at that. All you've said is that you're "skeptical" that those 25% were taught abstinence only. You haven't actually provided any evidence to show that those kids had adequate safe sex education.
 

Magic Man

Reaper of Conversation
Hi mball,

Why are teens infected by STDs at a higher rate now than before?

First, who says they are? All I've seen you quote is the rate of the current generation. I haven't heard any numbers on older generations.

Second, if they are infected at a higher rate, it's most likely because they are having more [unprotected] sex.

I posted the link, if you don't want to discuss it then that's your prerogative.

I'm really liking that over now. Here we go again:

Why is having sex with only one person your whole life better than having sex with several people?

I'll try explaining it one more time. This has nothing to do with marriage, and it has nothing to do with being promiscuous. This is about the difference between having sex with one person your whole life and having sex with multiple people in your life. If you have sex with 4 people in your life, you're hardly promiscuous, and if you have sex with 3 people and then marry the fourth one you have sex with, then you're still married and you've had sex with more than one person in your life.

So, with that said, why is having sex with only one person your whole life better than having sex with several people?
 

Joe_Stocks

Back from the Dead
Hi Contentius,

What you are doing is simply reporting 25% of teens have STDs and then merely assuming they've all had sex education. Equal sex education at that. All you've said is that you're "skeptical" that those 25% were taught abstinence only. You haven't actually provided any evidence to show that those kids had adequate safe sex education.

Yes, because I don't believe it has been shown that the 25% of teens with an STD were taught abstinence-only education. Not that this can actually been proven so it is most likely a moot point.

And the larger point I am making is that I believe that teens are more sexual active than in previous generations. And I believe this is because of the culture created by those who believe that 'hey, they are going to have sex anyways, so let's teach them how to do it safely.' I believe this culture created the environment where 25% of teens get STDs. Kids are having more sex because we are teaching them that it is okay to have sex and the social outcomes are very poor in my opinion.
 

Joe_Stocks

Back from the Dead
Hi mball,

First, who says they are? All I've seen you quote is the rate of the current generation. I haven't heard any numbers on older generations.

Second, if they are infected at a higher rate, it's most likely because they are having more [unprotected] sex.

I'm going on the safe assumption that 20 or 30 years ago 25% of teens weren't infected with an STD. I could be wrong.

Why is having sex with only one person your whole life better than having sex with several people?

I'll try explaining it one more time. This has nothing to do with marriage, and it has nothing to do with being promiscuous. This is about the difference between having sex with one person your whole life and having sex with multiple people in your life. If you have sex with 4 people in your life, you're hardly promiscuous, and if you have sex with 3 people and then marry the fourth one you have sex with, then you're still married and you've had sex with more than one person in your life.

So, with that said, why is having sex with only one person your whole life better than having sex with several people?

That is why I brought up the sacrament of Holy Matrimony. I'm Catholic if you haven't noticed. So, there is no sex outside of marriage. So, when you say that this has nothing to do with marriage you are wrong. I believe you should only be having sex with your husband or wife. And the link I posted some replies back applies here. The social benefits of marriage outweigh cohabitating or living a promiscuous lifestyle.
 

Vile Atheist

Loud and Obnoxious
Yes, because I don't believe it has been shown that the 25% of teens with an STD were taught abstinence-only education. Not that this can actually been proven so it is most likely a moot point.
Are you quoting a non-belief of yours as a statistic?

You don't believe that 25% of teens are taught abstinence only education.

And again, you miss the point.

The point is not what percentage of those infected were taught what. But what group is more likely to have sex and what group is going to have a higher risk. And all statistics point to the abstinence-only group being inferior. They have sex just as much, if not more than safe sex educated teens and their risk of infection or pregnancy is higher because they haven't been properly educated on how to protect themselves.

What you believe is contradicted by the statistics, Joe. Let me repeat this again for you. Kids who are taught abstinence-only are just as likely, if not, more likely to have sex than those who are taught safe sex practices.

There is absolutely nothing wrong with "Hey, they are going to have sex anyways, so let's teach them how to do it safely." In fact, it's commendable. We're no longer sweeping the problem under the rug and pretending it isn't there. We're actually educating kids on how to prevent the spread of disease and unwanted pregnancy.

If kids choose to be abstinent, that's awesome for them. But not every teen will be. Inevitably, they WILL do it.

Your logic is akin to this:

"Alcohol should be banned in this country. And we shouldn't have detox facilities or AA because clearly if they just didn't drink in the first place, the problems of alcoholism wouldn't exist in society."

...Disregarding the fact that people are going to continue to drink and will still require help.
 

Magic Man

Reaper of Conversation
Hi Contentius,
Yes, because I don't believe it has been shown that the 25% of teens with an STD were taught abstinence-only education. Not that this can actually been proven so it is most likely a moot point.

OK, just stop for a minute. Here are facts:

Teens who are taught abstinence only are just as likely as those who aren't to have sex.

Teens who are taught abstinence only are less likely than those who aren't to use protection when having sex.

Clearly, those taught abstinence only are at a higher risk for contracting STDs than those who aren't. So, it stands to reason that a portion of those 25% have been taught abstinence only.

And the larger point I am making is that I believe that teens are more sexual active than in previous generations. And I believe this is because of the culture created by those who believe that 'hey, they are going to have sex anyways, so let's teach them how to do it safely.' I believe this culture created the environment where 25% of teens get STDs. Kids are having more sex because we are teaching them that it is okay to have sex and the social outcomes are very poor in my opinion.

It is OK to have sex. You just need to be careful about it.
 

Dirty Penguin

Master Of Ceremony
Hi Contentius,



The next step is to show how many of the 25% teens with an STD were abstinence-only education. And a rather simple question to pose is how many teens would have an STD if they abstained from sexual activity.

Look, the bottom line is...the program and pledges don't work the way you want them to. I'm not saying it's not a good option but teenagers, young adults as well as older adults continue some form of sexual relations after taking the pledge. Here is some information I found that was posted by WEBMD.

Virginity Pledges Don't Cut STD Rates

If you read that article in light of the other one I posted you'll quickly realize that STD statistics among pledge-takers remained the same as those that didn't take it. This may be do to what I said earlier......those that take the pledge, in a means to be "true" to their pledge, engage in oral and/or anal sex.

I honestly don't know why we keep discussing this non-issue. The studies have been done. Although abstinence is a good teaching tool, provided the information is honest and correct, it should NEVER be the only one taught. You will NEVER be able to stop teens from having sex. You can teach them how to be responsible if they so choose to.
 
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Just_me_Mike

Well-Known Member
What has Sarah Palin actually done?
Well whatever it is, I REALLY hope she got whatever was in her eye out. It looked like she always had something in that left eye. I felt really bad for her. :yes:

palin_wink.jpg
 

McBell

Admiral Obvious
Well whatever it is, I REALLY hope she got whatever was in her eye out. It looked like she always had something in that left eye. I felt really bad for her. :yes:

palin_wink.jpg

it is rather comical that she wants so badly to be thought of as some kind of "rogue", yet continuously does this Popeye impression...
 

Darkness

Psychoanalyst/Marxist
Joe Stocks said:
That is why I brought up the sacrament of Holy Matrimony. I'm Catholic if you haven't noticed. So, there is no sex outside of marriage. So, when you say that this has nothing to do with marriage you are wrong. I believe you should only be having sex with your husband or wife. And the link I posted some replies back applies here. The social benefits of marriage outweigh cohabitating or living a promiscuous lifestyle.

If I am wrong and there is a Just God, the Catholic Church will have a lot to answer for given its infantile stance on birth control (even condoms) has led to the deaths of countless peoples.
 

dale1257

dfd001
We all know that Sarah Palin is evil. However, there are people I know that like her. This is a problem. I can't do much to counteract it because I don't actually know much about her policies.

Besides claiming that she can see Russia from her house (the people deny that she ever said that), what else has she done? What are her policies, what is she planning to do as president?

Really? How is she evil?

Ignorant as to the ways of the world? Clearly.
A lightening rod for media attention? Absolutely

And why is it a problem if I like her? Which, btw, I do. But liking her does not mean that I think she would be an effective President. Although I do think that if I had it to do over again, without McCain, hindsight tells me we would have been much better off with her as president, instead of Obama. For that matter, hindsight tells me that we that Hillary would have been a better choice. If she were president, I think we would have an entirely different set of problems than we face now. But major problems none the less.

As to her policies, you ask as though she is planning a run for the white house. Personally, I don't see it, although after reading her book, I am of the belief that politics is definately in her future. I think Sarah Palin would not be a very effective president, but thats not to say that she would not be very effective in a cabinet position. I think she would make a good energy secretary. But unless something drastic happens, I don't see her in much higher role than that.
 
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