What if Adam and Eve wouldn't have sinned?

[wiskeychris]

Would they still be here? Makes me think that Gods original purpose was for them to live here on the Earth. Does it make you rethink the whole going to heaven thing? I mean, why would god make a physical creature(man)only to intend him to live in Heaven? I mean God had already created billions of angels to live in heaven. Doesn't make sense to me.

 

[Ceridwen018]

God's original intention was that they would sin. I mean, he is all-powerful, so that means that nothing happens that he doesn't want to happen, right?

 

[jewscout]

i think it can also be viewed as an alagory for when man became more than just a primal hominid and became homo sapiens

 

[DC85]

Exactly Ceridwen018... but when many Christians are faced with such a question they seem to forget that they believe he is all knowing... I have been in many debates about Adam and Eve and noticed Christians have a hard time grasping what the Bible says. Like it says in the Bible that Adam and Eve didn't know what good and evil where (the difference) before they ate the fruit.... So obviously they could not obey since they could not comprehend that God is good and the serpent is bad. I always to get this however..... " If God created them they should know he is good". Are these people not paying attention?

 

[wiskeychris]

So your essentially saying that god has no choice but to see the future? If thats the case, then he is not all powerful. I believe that if God has the ability to see th future, he also has the ability not to see the future. Not that I'm comparing myself with God, but imagaine an existance where you knew the outcome of everything before it even happened. Does God have the ability, yes, but I believe he choses when to use it. To believe that God intended Adam and Eve to sin, contradicts the entire bible.

 

[jewscout]

So your essentially saying that god has no choice but to see the future? If thats the case, then he is not all powerful. I believe that if God has the ability to see th future, he also has the ability not to see the future. Not that I'm comparing myself with God, but imagaine an existance where you knew the outcome of everything before it even happened. Does God have the ability, yes, but I believe he choses when to use it. To believe that God intended Adam and Eve to sin, contradicts the entire bible.

or that Adam and Eve had free will, chose to eat the apple, HaShem saw the out come of both eating and not eating the apple...but allowed them to learn their lesson...some of the best lessons are the ones where you have to screw up to learn them....

the question is what does G-d allow and what does He intend? Who is to say...

these opening chapters in Genesis have been and probably will always continue to be hotly debated between theologians and scholars

 

[michel]

God's original intention was that they would sin. I mean, he is all-powerful, so that means that nothing happens that he doesn't want to happen, right?

i think it can also be viewed as an alagory for when man became more than just a primal hominid and became homo sapiens

I think the answer lies in between the above two statements; basically you are both right, but, as Jewscout pointed out, I don't actually believe in the Adam and Eve story 100% - it is merely a way of conveying an idea in simplistic terms.

 

[wiskeychris]

Well then, throw out the entire bible. You cant take bits and pieces. Either it is the word of God or it isn't. If Adam wasnt a real person, why is he mentioned in the geneology of Jesus? Why is he such a real person to many of the biblical prophets? Adam and Eve had children, 3 of which are named. If you believe in the bible, you must believe in Adam and Eve.

 

[jewscout]

Well then, throw out the entire bible. You cant take bits and pieces. Either it is the word of God or it isn't. If Adam wasnt a real person, why is he mentioned in the geneology of Jesus? Why is he such a real person to many of the biblical prophets? Adam and Eve had children, 3 of which are named. If you believe in the bible, you must believe in Adam and Eve.

well first off i'm a follower of the jewish faith...so jesus is sort of a non-issue for me...
secondly...in the jewish faith there are as many interpretation of the Bible as there probably Jews walking the earth, people who look at it literally, alagorically, as mythology, and pretty much everywhere whichway in between so i don't think one's interpretation necessarily makes the scripture any more or less important to their lives.

if it's the word of G-d to you wiskeychris...do you eat pork and shave?

 

[wiskeychris]

Yes I do eat pork, and Yes I do shave. Why? Because Christians are no longer bound by the mosaic law. The mosaic law was completely fullfilled in the messiah, Jesus. Jesus did away with the old law and instituted a new one; the law of love. The Mosaic law was simply a "mirror" for the Jews for them to realize they could not follow the law perfectly and needed a savior. Jesus was the only Human in history besides Adam who had the ability to perfectly follow that law code. Now, let me ask you... Do you eat pork? Do you offer up animal sacrifices for your sins?

 

[jewscout]

Now, let me ask you... Do you eat pork? Do you offer up animal sacrifices for your sins?

pork - no
sacrifices - that's impossible to do, there is no Temple..instead i pray and repent through performing mitzvot

Because Christians are no longer bound by the mosaic law

well unless you were born a jew wiskeychris you weren't bound by them to begin with

i'll stop here before i get anymore off topic...if you would like to continue this discussion else where feel free to open another thread wiskeychris

 

[jimbob]

Yes I do eat pork, and Yes I do shave. Why? Because Christians are no longer bound by the mosaic law. The mosaic law was completely fullfilled in the messiah, Jesus. Jesus did away with the old law and instituted a new one; the law of love. The Mosaic law was simply a "mirror" for the Jews for them to realize they could not follow the law perfectly and needed a savior. Jesus was the only Human in history besides Adam who had the ability to perfectly follow that law code. Now, let me ask you... Do you eat pork? Do you offer up animal sacrifices for your sins?

hey smart one, Jews don't believe Jesus was the messiah, so why would they stop their customs?

 

[angellous_evangellous]

i think it can also be viewed as an alagory for when man became more than just a primal hominid and became homo sapiens

I agree, only spelling allegory correctly.

 

[Katzpur]

Would they still be here? Makes me think that Gods original purpose was for them to live here on the Earth. Does it make you rethink the whole going to heaven thing? I mean, why would god make a physical creature(man)only to intend him to live in Heaven? I mean God had already created billions of angels to live in heaven. Doesn't make sense to me.

Personally, I think they'd still be here, but I don't think we would be. Before they ate the forbidden fruit, remember, they were immortal in the sense that they could not die. That's difficult for us to understand. I mean, each of them had a heart. What was there about that heart that would guarantee that it would keep on beating forever? We can't even imagine body parts that wouldn't wear out after 6000 years. My own belief (and I admit that it is not expressly stated in the Bible) is that, not only were they unable to die, they were unable to create new life. I believe that when they were cast out of Eden, and made mortal, they became able to do both of these things.

I know people say that we'd all (all 100 billion or so of us) be living happily in Eden today if Adam and Eve had not fallen from grace, but that makes no sense at all to me. To begin with, Eden was literally a place on this earth, and even if it had essentially covered the entire earth, it would be pretty darned crowded by now. When I hear the argument that "everything would have worked out just fine," I've got to think that somebody's just ignoring the obvious.

I think that God knew full well that they were going to disobey. This doesn't mean that I believe they were pre-destined to disobey, rather that God knows each of us perfectly and can predict with 100% accuracy how we will respond to certain temptations. He put them in the Garden with being (Satan/Lucifer) who was the epitome of evil. They were like two little children. They didn't even know right from wrong. Yes, they disobeyed, but until after they ate the forbidden fruit, they didn't really comprehend that obedience was "good" and disobedience was "evil." My gosh, of course they transgressed! How on earth could we have expected them not to?

Finally, I believe that this was all a part of God's plan for His children (us included). As wonderful as the Garden of Eden sounds, Adam and Eve would certainly have not been able to grow, learn and progress if they were to experience only the good things in life. Without experiencing sickness, they wouldn't be able to appreciate good health. Without sorrow, they wouldn't be able to comprehend joy. Everything has its opposite, and it was only by experiencing both good and evil that they were able to attain their full potential. The same holds true for each one of us.

Kathryn

 

[DC85]

Because Christians are no longer bound by the mosaic law. The mosaic law was completely fullfilled in the messiah, Jesus. Jesus did away with the old law and instituted a new one

In that case homosexuality is alright? ( I will open a new topic if you guys want)

 

[cardero]

What if Adam and Eve wouldn't have sinned?

We wouldn't be debating The Bible.

 

[Cordoba]

God's original intention was that they would sin. I mean, he is all-powerful, so that means that nothing happens that he doesn't want to happen, right?

Right. God allowed that to happen.

By creating Adam and Eve, God created new creatures with the gift of free will.

By definition, free will means the freedom of choosing between alternatives.

Humans are free to choose belief or disbelief, and if they believe, they are free to choose to obey God's Commands or disobey.

Adam and Eve disobeyed God, but they later repented, and God forgave them.

He is The Most Merciful.

 

[EnhancedSpirit]

If Adam and Eve had not eaten of the Tree of Knowlegde, we would be like all the other animals on earth. Living in perfect harmony with God's creation.

 

[Ori]

I don't believe in Adam and Eve as a real event, more of a moralistic story.

 

[DC85]

Right. God allowed that to happen.

By creating Adam and Eve, God created new creatures with the gift of free will.

Are you sure Adam and Eve had free will in the way Christians say they did and we do? The Bible clearly says they didn’t.... (Not that I think they existed)

Genesis 3.22 are given this

“And the Lord God said, Behold, the man is become as one of us, to know good and evil; “ I don’t know about you but this says to me that they could not tell the difference between good and evil before eating the fruit. Obviously they could not obey since they could not comprehend that God is good and the serpent is bad. So Adam and Eve didn't sin...