What if we accepted each others Religion?

[CG Didymus]

The Baha'i Writings state there has been many Prophets, the records have mostly been lost for a lot of them. It is also stated that in the future, the academia will pursue the records for possible Messengers, this age has more important issue. Unity is required before any academic pursuits will produce any lasting fruit.

"Thus there have been many holy Manifestations of God. One thousand years ago, two hundred thousand years ago, one million years ago the bounty of God was flowing, the radiance of God was shining, the dominion of God was existing."

‘Abdu’l-Bahá, Foundations of World Unity, p. 108

There is also more than one type of Prophet. The Messengers get their Message direct from God, other receive that message through these Messengers.

Now is not the time for this, unity of humanity is the urgent issue.

Regards Tony

But the Buddhist know of some, and Hindus know of some. They are not unknown. For example, one of the incarnations prior to Krishna was Rama. For me, I personally think that both were mythical. But we do have stories about them. I doubt very much that Baha'is would take the Ramayana or the stories of Krishna playing his flute for the gopis as being true.

 

[CG Didymus]

I not only reject all other religions except mine, I reject all interpretations of Quran but the one from God and Ahlulbayt (a), so let alone rejecting other religions.

Now that's being real. And I'm sure you have good reasons not to believe the others. Baha'is do have their reasons for believing all of them. But even they qualify it sometimes by saying the "original" teachings were true, but they got distorted.

 

[CG Didymus]

Nope.

On the rare occasion I've been doorstepped by a JW they soon give up with me!

Here's LH's chance to prove that he would accept them. The one I wanted him to go to was the snake-handling Christians. But even any Pentecostal Church meeting would be good. They'd be singing and dancing... speaking in tongues and laying hands on people to cast out the devil or to have God heal their arthritis and rheumatism.

 

[CG Didymus]

There is also more than one type of Prophet. The Messengers get their Message direct from God, other receive that message through these Messengers.

Even though they were part of Judaism, the prophets, like Elijah and Isaiah, seemed to be getting their messages direct from the God of Israel. Or, like me, you just take those stories as fictional myth.

 

[CG Didymus]

Which are these? And what texts do they focus on?

Do you not think it might be a tad arrogant to claim to understand Buddhism better than Buddhists?

Two Baha'is... two very different ways of approaching people from a different religion. Sadly, Tony, TransmutingSoul, is probably closer to Baha'i beliefs. But how much "uniting" and "accepting" will it bring? At least LH is trying to bring people in the other religions closer.

 

[CG Didymus]

proselytize​

advocate or promote (a belief or course of action)​

​

Google definitions​

It seems like anyone that believes their religious beliefs are true would have a hard time not to try to "promote" their religion and beliefs as true. And I'm okay with it. I just don't believe them.

 

[TransmutingSoul]

But the Buddhist know of some, and Hindus know of some. They are not unknown. For example, one of the incarnations prior to Krishna was Rama. For me, I personally think that both were mythical. But we do have stories about them. I doubt very much that Baha'is would take the Ramayana or the stories of Krishna playing his flute for the gopis as being true.

Doubt all you want to CG. The world does not need us to be arguing about who may have been Messengers from God and who may not have been, in the end it is quite simple.

In the end, all good is from God, all the rest is from our own selves.

"O peoples of the world! Forsake all evil, hold fast that which is good. Strive to be shining examples unto all mankind, and true reminders of the virtues of God amidst men."

Regards Tony

 

[TransmutingSoul]

Even though they were part of Judaism, the prophets, like Elijah and Isaiah, seemed to be getting their messages direct from the God of Israel. Or, like me, you just take those stories as fictional myth.

We all get our own choice in these matters CG.

Regards Tony

 

[Trailblazer]

It seems like anyone that believes their religious beliefs are true would have a hard time not to trying to "promote" their religion and beliefs as true. And I'm okay with it. I just don't believe them.

It is not hard at all. It is as easy as falling off a log not to promote my beliefs.
All I have to do is bear in mind that it is not my responsibility to promote the Baha'i Faith, and I don't even want to since I firmly believe that people should make their own choices about what to believe.

promote: to encourage people to like, buy, use, do, or support something:

promote

1. to encourage people to like, buy, use, do, or support something: 2. to…

dictionary.cambridge.org

Let's apply this to something else. Let's say that I just bought a new car that I think is a really good car, the best car I ever had.
I invite some friends over to see my car and tell them all about it. Does that mean I am encouraging them to like, buy, or use a car like mine?

 

[McBell]

It seems like anyone that believes their religious beliefs are true would have a hard time not to trying to "promote" their religion and beliefs as true. And I'm okay with it. I just don't believe them.

The fact of the matter is that "intent to convert" is not a requirement for the use of the word.
Unlike what some people want everyone to believe.

 

[Regiomontanus]

Firstly I am only referring to the major religions.

Next I’m speaking of accepting the Founder and the spiritual teachings such as virtues and prayer etc not the laws. The administration of each faith would remain.

So Christians would accept Buddha and Muhammad, Buddhists would accept Christ and Baha’is etc

And instead of segregating ourselves in our own churches, pagodas, temples and synagogues, we would visit each others places of worship to meditate and pray together. We Baha’is already do this and read from all the sacred scriptures of each religion in all our services.

In this way we can celebrate our diversity. I think in many places this is happening and also interfaith breaking down barriers. I myself I accept all the major religions and their Founders and Holy Books and find this enriches me greatly. So I read something Christ or Buddha said and it’s a great experience. Christ says to love and Buddha says to fight hate with love and that the greatest of all conquerors is he who conquers his own self. So much wisdom from all these faiths. Why should we deprive ourselves.? If you have any favourite verses please feel most welcome to share them.

Yes, some/many people have above average wisdom and intelligence. But that does not mean that their claims/teachings have equal merit. Jesus is the only begotten Son of the Creator of our Universe.

Diversity is great - up to a point; it stops when it comes to the ultimate TRUTH.

Only Jesus is our Lord and Savior. IMHO.

 

[CG Didymus]

Yes, some/many people have above average wisdom and intelligence. But that does not mean that their claims/teachings have equal merit. Jesus is the only begotten Son of the Creator of our Universe.

Diversity is great - up to a point; it stops when it comes to the ultimate TRUTH.

Only Jesus is our Lord and Savior. IMHO.

I don't think that the Bible supports any of the religions. Most of the time when another religion is mentioned it is a false religion that is worshipping false Gods. But by what Baha'is believe... no people were left without guidance from a messenger from God.

These days, it has become necessary for all of us to be more tolerant of each other's religions. But many people still believe theirs is the only true one and the others false. Baha'is, in a way, say all of them are true... it's just that they say that all of them got corrupted and distorted, including Christianity. Kind in the way Christians believe Judaism got corrupted.

For Baha'is, naturally, the only one that hasn't been corrupted is theirs, the Baha'i Faith.

 

[Truthseeker]

I consider all texts with a critical mind I hope. The Dalai Lama is not a particular reference point for me; for example he said "From a Buddhist point of view, men-to-men and women-to-women is generally considered sexual misconduct." I disagree with his pov, but it does seem consistemt with the Bahai position on homosexuality.

Anything else? What does this information have to do with the question of whether the Buddha mentioned God or not?

 

[Secret Chief]

Anything else? What does this information have to do with the question of whether the Buddha mentioned God or not?

Just thought it tied in nicely with the bahai misappropriation and misrepresentation of other religions.

 

[Truthseeker]

Just thought it tied in nicely with the bahai misappropriation and misrepresentation of other religions.

I'm sure you disagree from this answer just now about God existing and what the Buddha said and leave it at that. You have your opinion, and I have mine, which I'm just as entitled to as you are. The Baha'is are not in my opinion misrepresenting Buddhism, we just have our own opinion, which by the way differs somewhat with each Baha'i, we just have our own take, which we are not imposing on Buddhists. I'm fine with you having a different opinion on this. Buddhists of course each have their own opinion on Buddhism.

I don't see the Dalai Lama as someone who can't be wrong, either. The guy who was quoting him was just quoting someone who agreed with his own position, and on this it agrees with mine also.

The Baha'i opinion on other religions is not an opinion that we desire to impose on others, we just have our own perspective, as people of every religion do.

 

[Truthseeker]

"The unborn" refers to the underlying conscious awareness that you cannot observe to arise and pass away, as other thoughts, emotions, and mental states arise and pass away which you can observe arising and passing away.

If that's how you see it, that's fine with me.

 

[Truthseeker]

This is what Buddha said: you are out of your mind if you conjecture about the origin of the world:

​

Acintita Sutta: Unconjecturable

www.accesstoinsight.org

​

"There are these four unconjecturables that are not to be conjectured about, that would bring madness & vexation to anyone who conjectured about them. Which four?​

​

"The Buddha-range of the Buddhas[1] is an unconjecturable that is not to be conjectured about, that would bring madness & vexation to anyone who conjectured about it.​

​

"The jhana-range of a person in jhana...[2]​

​

"The [precise working out of the] results of kamma...​

​

"Conjecture about [the origin, etc., of] the world is an unconjecturable that is not to be conjectured about, that would bring madness & vexation to anyone who conjectured about it.​

​

"These are the four unconjecturables that are not to be conjectured about, that would bring madness & vexation to anyone who conjectured about them."​

What's the point of what you are saying here? It's not clear to me. I don't see any conjectures about the origin of the world in what that person i am quoting said. Maybe I being dense here, but I don't get it.

 

[loverofhumanity]

I was wondering which verses that mention reincarnation are you interpreting? So, I asked...

We have to look at those verses? What was the meaning of the word translated as "reincarnation"? What was the context of the verses where reincarnation is mentioned? Does the Baha'is interpretation fit and make sense?

You are the one that said that the Baha'is have interpreted reincarnation to mean that the "qualities" have returned. If you don't know the verses in the Hindu Scriptures, then how do you know the Baha'i interpretation is correct?

Baha'is do the same thing to Christians with the resurrection. Baha'is say it doesn't mean a literal, physical resurrection but is being symbolic and means a "spiritual" resurrection. But, when we look at the verses in the gospels, it is clearly claiming that the dead body of Jesus was gone, and he had come back to life.

Both the resurrection and reincarnation could be wrong. They could be just things that the writers of the Scriptures made-up. But with the resurrection, I think the writers, all four of them, tell a story that has Jesus coming back to life in some sort of flesh and bone body. And, with reincarnation, I think the writer is saying that the soul lives on after the body dies, and to progress and to grow spiritually, it comes back into a different body.

Both these could be wrong. But it makes the writers wrong. The Baha'is need the stories, because they are part of the Scriptures of those religions, to be true, just not literally true. Baha'is need a way to explain away how those things got accepted and believed by the followers in those religions, but how they got it wrong. The Baha'i explanation? The followers misinterpreted the "true" meaning of those Scriptures. The mistakenly took the resurrection and reincarnation way too literally. For Baha'is, those things were symbolic. The Baha'is say the "true" meaning was, for the resurrection, was that the spirit of Jesus rose, and, for reincarnation, the "qualities" of a person return in somebody else.

Look at the verses in Hindu Scriptures. Does the Baha'i interpretation work? Does it make sense? I think that the best explanation, if reincarnation is not true, that the writer just made-up the concept and pushed it off as being the truth.

But, who knows, for me, I think it would be just fine to come back and experience life in a different body in a different place and time. What better way for the soul to gain experience and wisdom?

Sorry about that but the Baha’i writings apart from maybe John the Baptist not being the reincarnation of Elijah does not interpret individual verses but the doctrine of reincarnation which it claims is man made. We Baha’is get our interpretation from authoritative sources. So regarding return and reincarnation. This topic is mention by Baha’u’llah in His Book of Certitude and by Abdul-Baha in Some Answered Questions. I cannot ‘interpret’ so I refer you to my Sources. They more than adequately deal with the topic. Even Christ too regarding John the Baptist being the return of Elijah. John denied being the self same personality as Elijah but Christ meant the qualities. The topic of reincarnation is fully addressed in the Baha’i writings. And that’s as good as taking any verse from the Gita and explaining it as it’s dealing with the topic of reincarnation itself which encompasses any belief in reincarnation from any religion Hindu or Buddhist or even Christian not any particular book. So if you want to know more then instead of a verse I suggest you study the Baha’i writings on the topic which I did because there is no specific verse interpreted I found, just an interpretation and explanation of reincarnation.

 

[loverofhumanity]

So, is this thread about accepting each other's religions and their prophet, founder, or manifestation, which ever one applies? Or about what Baha'is believe and say is true about the other religions?

If it is about accepting each other's religions, then why aren't Baha'is doing that? We have Buddhists, Hindus and I think there's been some Christians here. Does LH and any of the other Baha'is accept what you and the others here believe? Do they really accept your religion as you believe it and practice it? Would LH and any of the other Baha'is feel perfectly fine with what is said, taught and done at your religion's gatherings?

I really, really doubt it. I think there would be many things that they don't agree with and believe are false teachings.

But, If I were a Baha'i, and wanted to find potential converts, I'd tell them exactly the type of things being said here. "All religions are one. We all have so many things in common. We keep believing and following the teachings that separate us? We are one human family. We share one planet. Truth is not divided. There is only one truth. We must all put aside our differences and learn to live together in peace."

There's bound to be some people that would agree with that. Then I'd hit them with the next step. "There is only one God. He has sent messengers throughout time to teach us the truth. But it's been a progression of truth. We, when mankind was in its infancy, could bear or understand the complete truth. So, these messengers only revealed what could be understood by the people at the time. Today, however, humanity has become mature enough spiritually to understand... We are one. True religion has always been one. It has always taught people to love one another and not to hate. Now, we as a people, can say, there is one Earth and mankind is its citizens."

Then the next step... "God has sent a new messenger..." Of course, it's their prophet Baha'u'llah. Every religion that seeks converts does similar things. They start with meeting you where you are at and then take you on a journey into their truth.

Maybe LH is telling the truth. He really does accept our beliefs and religions. But lots of us have had those proselytizing religious people try and befriend us and show us love and kindness only to later try and cram their beliefs down our throats. But what else can they do? It's not like we will ever know or hear of their religion and beliefs if they don't do that. Or they could be honest up front. But, you know, I don't think that would work. Most of us would probably slam the door in their face.

Or if I was wanting world peace and wars and conflicts to end I would post that too. I appreciate you giving me the benefit of the doubt. To me these teachings can disarm ideologies of war and hatred and what do I want?

I want….

For people to be happy and get along
For everyone to have their basic needs food, clothing and shelter
For universal free Medicare
For work for all
For free universal education including university level
And so much, much more

The $trillions spent on armaments by the world if spent on people we could all live in a veritable paradise but war is being promoted to destroy life in order for arms dealers to get rich.

How is war promoted? By manipulating prejudiced masses and demonising another race, religion or nationality. But how much of this is truth? There is in reality only one planet, the globe and one human race. So we as humans are being manipulated and turned against one another to what end?. To make someone filthy rich.

Now imagine…

What would happen if the people of Russia refused to fight their neighbours in Ukraine? What if the Muslims and Jews embraced each other as brothers? What would happen if we all viewed each other as citizens of one planet? What if we stopped being antagonistic and hostile and celebrated our diversity instead? Well that’s what us Baha’is want for you and others. There’s nothing in it for us except a better world for you. But I understand the mistrust and suspicion because when do you ever come across anyone today that cares without a selfish motive.

So I don’t blame anyone for being suspicious of our motives. I was very suspicious of Baha’is 50 years ago until I found out that they were sincere and didn’t want anything from me or anyone, only human happiness, wars to end and people to have a wonderful world. That’s the true reward, that all humanity be as a family. So we try to promote the consciousness of the oneness of all humanity’ believing it will lead to peace. We see disunity as a grave threat to humanity especially in this nuclear age.

 

[loverofhumanity]

I was wondering which verses that mention reincarnation are you interpreting? So, I asked...

We have to look at those verses? What was the meaning of the word translated as "reincarnation"? What was the context of the verses where reincarnation is mentioned? Does the Baha'is interpretation fit and make sense?

You are the one that said that the Baha'is have interpreted reincarnation to mean that the "qualities" have returned. If you don't know the verses in the Hindu Scriptures, then how do you know the Baha'i interpretation is correct?

Baha'is do the same thing to Christians with the resurrection. Baha'is say it doesn't mean a literal, physical resurrection but is being symbolic and means a "spiritual" resurrection. But, when we look at the verses in the gospels, it is clearly claiming that the dead body of Jesus was gone, and he had come back to life.

Both the resurrection and reincarnation could be wrong. They could be just things that the writers of the Scriptures made-up. But with the resurrection, I think the writers, all four of them, tell a story that has Jesus coming back to life in some sort of flesh and bone body. And, with reincarnation, I think the writer is saying that the soul lives on after the body dies, and to progress and to grow spiritually, it comes back into a different body.

Both these could be wrong. But it makes the writers wrong. The Baha'is need the stories, because they are part of the Scriptures of those religions, to be true, just not literally true. Baha'is need a way to explain away how those things got accepted and believed by the followers in those religions, but how they got it wrong. The Baha'i explanation? The followers misinterpreted the "true" meaning of those Scriptures. The mistakenly took the resurrection and reincarnation way too literally. For Baha'is, those things were symbolic. The Baha'is say the "true" meaning was, for the resurrection, was that the spirit of Jesus rose, and, for reincarnation, the "qualities" of a person return in somebody else.

Look at the verses in Hindu Scriptures. Does the Baha'i interpretation work? Does it make sense? I think that the best explanation, if reincarnation is not true, that the writer just made-up the concept and pushed it off as being the truth.

But, who knows, for me, I think it would be just fine to come back and experience life in a different body in a different place and time. What better way for the soul to gain experience and wisdom?

This is from the Book of Certitude regarding the return of the qualities not the same individuals which reincarnation says.

“Therefore, those who in every subsequent Dispensation preceded the rest of mankind in embracing the Faith of God, who quaffed the clear waters of knowledge at the hand of the divine Beauty, and attained the loftiest summits of faith and certitude, these can be regarded, in name, in reality, in deeds, in words, and in rank, as the “return” of those who in a former Dispensation had achieved similar distinctions. For whatsoever the people of a former Dispensation have manifested, the same hath been shown by the people of this latter generation. Consider the rose: whether it blossometh in the East or in the West, it is none the less a rose. For what mattereth in this respect is not the outward shape and form of the rose, but rather the smell and fragrance which it doth impart.”

The Kitáb-i-Íqán
Bahá’u’lláh