What if we accepted each others Religion?

[Link]

I agree and that is exactly what Baha'u'llah wrote:

“It follows, therefore, that every man hath been, and will continue to be, able of himself to appreciate the Beauty of God, the Glorified. Had he not been endowed with such a capacity, how could he be called to account for his failure? If, in the Day when all the peoples of the earth will be gathered together, any man should, whilst standing in the presence of God, be asked: “Wherefore hast thou disbelieved in My Beauty and turned away from My Self,” and if such a man should reply and say: “Inasmuch as all men have erred, and none hath been found willing to turn his face to the Truth, I, too, following their example, have grievously failed to recognize the Beauty of the Eternal,” such a plea will, assuredly, be rejected. For the faith of no man can be conditioned by any one except himself.”
Gleanings From the Writings of Bahá’u’lláh, p. 143

In theory a lot of what Baha'allah says is true if he would be a Prophet of God. But none of that actually is proof that he is a Messenger of God. Just like what the other fake Mahdi claimers if they claim to be from God, they are right per Quran, we should accept them. But that's a big if.

The Quran shows consistency in the religion of God, and so yes, denying any new Messenger would be wrong. However, Baha'allah interpretation is problematic, contradicts the Quran, and is impossible.

His interpretation that Mohammad (s) being stated by the Quran that he is the Final Nabi is in the same way Ali (a) or Mohammad (s) represents Adam (a) and is metaphorically Adam (a), is a game on language. There are expressions allowed to say you are one, those expressions are found in the Quran and hadiths, but they have their proper usage, terms, angles, context, and flow. It's clear, that when Quran says Mohammad (s) is the final end of Nabis, it's not hyperbola nor is it talking about unity of the final Prophet (other then Mohammad (s)) and Mohammad (s) being one. It's absurd.

But for the sake of helping you guys, I didn't just hold this to account. I entertained say it's possible. Bahai Faith contradicts Quran in other respects even aside from the day of judgment and finalizing of Nabiyeen. It contradicts the viewpoint that there is a living guide/witness/leader in all times in the Quran for example. Baha'allah and Bab not being relatives also violates a major principle of how God weeds out false claims to succession per Quran and that blood relations matter to God for a wise reason.

The twelve number is violated with respect to succession and months as well.

 

[Trailblazer]

The difference between older religions is noted. It brings nothing to the truth value of older or newer. There is bunch of new faiths asserting the Mahdi has come. You aren't the only ones.

All sorts of beliefs about the Mahdi (a) out there. Some more of the Sunni nature, some more of the Shiite nature, some a mix.

The amount of new religions are many, and there is a leader who asserts he is the current successor to Baha'allah and that the house thing is not supposed to be a thing.

There are also newer Prophets that acknowledge Baha'allah.

I know that claims abound, but claims are not evidence that the claims are true...

That said, people are free to believe whatever they want to believe, as am I.

We all have to decide for ourselves what we believe is true, and as you said, we are all responsible for our own beliefs.

 

[Link]

I know that claims abound, but claims are not evidence that the claims are true...

Okay, so what makes more sense to do is present evidence or your proof that would prove your point of view.

Or counter argument the arguments against your faith to at least maintain plausibility.

 

[Link]

Well at least this tack is consistent. Did you know that the Buddha was a Messenger of your God? It was news to me anyway...

I think some of the reincarnations of him might have been Messengers originally and their stories got put to the tale of being one of his past lives. But I don't know past that, but I think he didn't exist from my best guess.

I took a course about Buddhism, but I don't know much about it.

 

[Trailblazer]

I think there are levels of self-deception and lying to oneself. I believe it is taken to a new level with Bahai interpretation of the Quran. That takes a level of cognitive dissonance I thought was not even possible for humans.

I could say the same thing about Muslims but I do not even think that way, so I won't.
To say that someone is deceiving or lying to oneself is a personal insult.
Moreover, what you said takes egotism to a whole new level.

But Bahais are not interested in context. They will move verses way out of their place.

I gave up arguing about what scriptures mean a long time ago since it is an exercise in futility.
Every religious believer believes they know what the scriptures mean.
I can only say what I think they mean but I am not going to insist on MY interpretation.

 

[Secret Chief]

I think some of the reincarnations of him might have been Messengers originally and their stories got put to the tale of being one of his past lives. But I don't know past that, but I think he didn't exist from my best guess.

I took a course about Buddhism, but I don't know much about it.

Ok. Try to avoid using the word "reincarnation" iro Buddhism if poss!


"Reincarnation is not part of Buddhist teaching"

- Do Buddhists Believe In Reincarnation? - Faith Inspires

 

[Link]

I could say the same thing about Muslims but I do not even think that way, so I won't.

And you be a correct to a create degree if you did say what you won't and even Quran says if things go wrong, it's due to that. Quran repeats it's a clear book. If anything is unclear, we should wait or refer to clear, and it will become clear.

Majority of Muslims are denying the clear Quran. It's the unfortunate affliction we are in. The clearer the Quran becomes, the more exalted becomes as well. Satanic magic keeps people from seeing the clear Quran because the clarity of it and exalted nature go hand to hand. But per Quran, only those with hard hearts follow what Satan casts pertaining to it and only they follow unclear from the Quran.

But your interpretation doesn't help make Quran more clear, it makes it a book of riddles and deceptions.

 

[Trailblazer]

Okay, so what makes more sense to do is present evidence or your proof that would prove your point of view.

Or counter argument the arguments against your faith to at least maintain plausibility.

I have been on this forum long enough to know that:

There is no evidence that would prove any religion is true because religions are not subject to proof, only belief....​

​

There is also no evidence that would counter the arguments against the Baha'i Faith.​

​

Those arguments will keep coming, but it is like water off a duck's back for me.​

 

[Link]

I gave up arguing about what scriptures mean a long time ago since it is an exercise in futility.

That's unfortunate, Quran is meant to be used by people to dialogue and even debate. However, if we are of wrong views, we should accept when proven something right from it. It's the dishonesty that keeps people from accepting the clear interpretation safeguarded in the holy sayings of the 12 Imams (a).

 

[Link]

I have been on this forum long enough to know that:

There is no evidence that would prove any religion is true because religions are not subject to proof, only belief....​

​

Per Quran, belief in God and belief in his proofs/signs is one and the same. You have to seek proofs/proof for religion.

And proofs are a proof if they all work together to prove the same thing. Quran is a sufficient sign full of signs and proofs. Some are collective signs making a case together, some of it words are sufficient signs.

But you got to let it contextualize and explain itself. And yes hadiths are important, but not to search hadiths that are far fetch and impose them on Quran. Rather, use the family of the reminder to help you defeat the darkness regarding the written reminder.

They go together and are to be approached both with thirst.

 

[Trailblazer]

And you be a correct to a create degree if you did say what you won't and even Quran says if things go wrong, it's due to that. Quran repeats it's a clear book. If anything is unclear, we should wait or refer to clear, and it will become clear.

I only care that the Baha'i Writings are clear because I am a Baha'i.
I am not responsible for making other religious scriptures become clear.

 

[JustGeorge]

Ok. Try to avoid using the word "reincarnation" iro Buddhism if poss!


"Reincarnation is not part of Buddhist teaching"

I know some big dummy that has trouble understanding the differences between rebirth and reincarnation. She read the article, but still doesn't get it.

Can you give me an example I can share with her?

 

[Link]

I only care that the Baha'i Writings are clear because I am a Baha'i.
I am not responsible for making other religious scriptures become clear.

It would be the case if Bahai didn't acknowledge the Quran. However, they make claims about the Quran. For example, that the day of judgment is a prophecy of Baha'allah. This is their interpretation so we can see is it plausible or possible.

The Quran is a clear book. Baha'allah speaks of it as a book of riddles that scholars couldn't perceive.

The unclearness from Quran is not due to riddles, it's due to injustice of hearts and sorcery of Iblis hardening hearts - and real blockages of the clearer recitations. The hadiths help break all that.

 

[Link]

I know some big dummy that has trouble understanding the differences between rebirth and reincarnation. She read the article, but still doesn't get it.

Can you give me an example I can share with her?

I didn't get it either. So would be interested as well.

 

[Vinayaka]

Luckily there is no intent of disingenuous misrepresentation and misappropriation.

That is your interpretation of the conversations.

Regards Tony

'No intent' is no excuse. Lots of people, with no intent to do so, hurl insults. Does a judge accept 'I didn't mean to do it' as a valid excuse? Everyone here other than your fellow Baha'is, is informing you that it's disingenuous, and you dismiss them as fools. How very unifying.

 

[Trailblazer]

That's unfortunate, Quran is meant to be used by people to dialogue and even debate. However, if we are of wrong views, we should accept when proven something right from it. It's the dishonesty that keeps people from accepting the clear interpretation safeguarded in the holy sayings of the 12 Imams (a).

What a person honestly believes is correct is not dishonest....
It is only ego when people insist they have the clear interpretation and others don't.

You believe you have the clear interpretation but I do not want to argue with you because Baha'u'llah has enjoined Baha'is to not argue.

150) Say, We have determined the proclamation with clear evidence; do not argue with anyone, and he who desires to proclaim sincerely for the face of his Lord, the Holy Spirit will support him and inspire him with what illuminates the breast of the world, and how the breasts of the seekers. O people of Bahá, subjugate the cities of hearts with the swords of wisdom and eloquence. Indeed, those who argue with the passions of their souls, they are in a manifest veil. Say, the sword of wisdom is hotter than fire and sharper than a sword of iron if you are among those who know. If you bring it forth with my name and authority, then open with it the cities of the hearts of those who have fortified themselves in the fortress of passion; thus, your Lord, the Most Exalted, commands you when He was seated under the swords of the polytheists.
A Compilation of Baha’u’llah’s Writings - Suriy-i-Haykal (Surah of the Temple)

12 Say, O people, do not spread corruption on the earth and do not argue with people, for this was not the way of those who took shelter in the shadow of their Lord, who were on the path of truth and trust. And if you find someone thirsty, give them a drink from the cup of Kawthar and Tasneem. And if you find someone with receptive ears, recite to them the verses of Allah, the Almighty, the Mighty, the Merciful.
A Compilation of Baha’u’llah’s Writings - Suriy-i-Ghusn (Tablet of the Branch)

I think the reason why arguing is not allowed by God is because of the feelings behind arguing, which is often anger or a sense of superiority.
Two people mutually sharing perspectives, even if they differ, is not arguing as long as it is done in good faith and kindness.

 

[Link]

What a person honestly believes is correct is not dishonest....
It is only ego when people insist they have the clear interpretation and others don't.

You believe you have the clear interpretation but I do not want to argue with you because Baha'u'llah has enjoined Baha'is to not argue.

150) Say, We have determined the proclamation with clear evidence; do not argue with anyone, and he who desires to proclaim sincerely for the face of his Lord, the Holy Spirit will support him and inspire him with what illuminates the breast of the world, and how the breasts of the seekers. O people of Bahá, subjugate the cities of hearts with the swords of wisdom and eloquence. Indeed, those who argue with the passions of their souls, they are in a manifest veil. Say, the sword of wisdom is hotter than fire and sharper than a sword of iron if you are among those who know. If you bring it forth with my name and authority, then open with it the cities of the hearts of those who have fortified themselves in the fortress of passion; thus, your Lord, the Most Exalted, commands you when He was seated under the swords of the polytheists.
A Compilation of Baha’u’llah’s Writings - Suriy-i-Haykal (Surah of the Temple)

12 Say, O people, do not spread corruption on the earth and do not argue with people, for this was not the way of those who took shelter in the shadow of their Lord, who were on the path of truth and trust. And if you find someone thirsty, give them a drink from the cup of Kawthar and Tasneem. And if you find someone with receptive ears, recite to them the verses of Allah, the Almighty, the Mighty, the Merciful.
A Compilation of Baha’u’llah’s Writings - Suriy-i-Ghusn (Tablet of the Branch)

I think the reason why arguing is not allowed by God is because of the feelings behind arguing, which is often anger or a sense of superiority.
Two people mutually sharing perspectives, even if they differ, is not arguing as long as it is done in good faith and kindness.

Yet, you guys argued a lot with a lot of people.

 

[Link]

It is only ego when people insist they have the clear interpretation and others don't.

Those with mental clarity and are honest to themselves will follow clear signs and interpretation, and never follow what they don't know.

 

[Secret Chief]

I know some big dummy that has trouble understanding the differences between rebirth and reincarnation. She read the article, but still doesn't get it.

Can you give me an example I can share with her?

+ @Link

Well, reincarnation is generally taken to mean a continually abiding something (a soul) that passes from one sentient being to another. Buddhism rejects the notion of a continually abiding anything, Two of the three (or four....depending...) fundamentals of Buddhism are that one accepts as true:
1. Anicca (impermanance of all "things.")
2. Anatta (no abiding "essence.")
Hence: no soul -> no reincarnation.
As to rebirth, the concept is understood in more than one way, depending on the school of Buddhism - simply put : maybe lifetime to lifetime or maybe moment to moment. If you, sorry, the big dummy wishes to they could peruse this to get a taste of the variety of approaches:

- The Buddhist Teachings on Rebirth | Lion’s Roar

Any clearer?

 

[JustGeorge]

+ @Link

Well, reincarnation is generally taken to mean a continually abiding something (a soul) that passes from one sentient being to another. Buddhism rejects the notion of a continually abiding anything, Two of the three (or four....depending...) fundamentals of Buddhism are that one accepts as true:
1. Anicca (impermanance of all "things.")
2. Anatta (no abiding "essence.")
Hence: no soul -> no reincarnation.
As to rebirth, the concept is understood in more than one way, depending on the school of Buddhism - simply put : maybe lifetime to lifetime or moment to moment. If you, sorry, the big dummy wishes to they could peruse this to get a taste of the variety of approaches:

- The Buddhist Teachings on Rebirth | Lion’s Roar

Any clearer?

I'll take a peek at it when things level out here and if I, I mean, she can't get it, I'll let you know.