What if we accepted each others Religion?

[Dawnofhope]

Would it be safe to say, then, that the Baha'is include only religions that honor any of those afore mentioned figures?

Most religions and belief systems did not originate from the handful of figures the Baha'i writings identify as Manifestations of God, Indigenous religions for example. From a Baha'i perspective they are not excluded or invalided because they are not specifically mentioned. Hinduism is vast and the Vaishnavites are not the only valid group because they worship Krishna.

The Quran (Surah 16:36) states there is Messenger for every people so this idea of a Creator God guiding every peoples is nothing new. Religious figures such as Buddha, Jesus and Muhammad built on what has come before. With change comes affirmation of what was working well in the past but also recognizing some practices and beliefs need to be discarded.

 

[Vinayaka]

I understand that Vinayaka. You are still using Hinduism, un fact, many times in this discussion.

Regards Tony

Yes I understand, TS, that you 'think' you understand everything we say.

 

[Vinayaka]

Its okay to be incorrect, but when corrected, I'd think there'd be discussions about change.

Depending on individuals, but don't get your hopes up.

 

[Vinayaka]

Most religions and belief systems did not originate from the handful of figures the Baha'i writings identify as Manifestations of God, Indigenous religions for example. From a Baha'i perspective they are not excluded or invalided because they are not specifically mentioned. Hinduism is vast and the Vaishnavites are not the only valid group because they worship Krishna.

The Quran (Surah 16:36) states there is Messenger for every people so this idea of a Creator God guiding every peoples is nothing new. Religious figures such as Buddha, Jesus and Muhammad built on what has come before. With change comes affirmation of what was working well in the past but also recognizing some practices and beliefs need to be discarded.

See post 1100. But at the same time, I congratulate you personally in being able to listen, and hence alter your list of manifestations, as seen in this post, to exclude Krishna, at least in this forum.

 

[CG Didymus]

I found that many Buddhists and Hindus accepted Baha’u’llah fulfilled their scriptures.

Then what happened? Did they officially become Baha'is? Or did they keep practicing their old religion?

What's a little unclear is what all these friends of yours know about your Baha'i beliefs. Like the ones that say that the old religions have lost their original, true teachings and are now believing traditions and interpretations of men that Baha'is say are wrong.

Do they know this and still want to be your friend? Or do you keep that part of the teachings of the Baha'i Faith to yourself? Which, I think, would be the smart thing to do. Who'd want to be your friend if the first thing you tell them is how wrong their religious beliefs are.

But how about them? Do they try and talk you into believing their religion?

 

[TransmutingSoul]

Sure, I give that. But the details are even more embarrassing in my view for the Bahai Faith especially give how clear and how many verses clarify these subjects in the Quran.

One can say that about all Religious Scriptures.

Example.

Jesus said “I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me” (John 14:6).

So that would exclude Muhammad and all other Messengers.

One has to see the explanation behind what was recorded.

Regards Tony

 

[Link]

One can say that about all Religious Scriptures.

Example.

Jesus said “I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me” (John 14:6).

So that would exclude Muhammad and all other Messengers.

One has to see the explanation behind what was recorded.

Regards Tony

There is room for interpretation for many concepts and verses. But then there is taking language way out of place, and following ambiguity out of caprice.

The Quran quotes Jesus (a) often, never quoted that part, so I can't verify if he said it or not. But I know according to Gospels Jesus (a) did say he was light of the world so long as he was in the world. And Quran shows the spirit in Mohammad (s) is a light by which God guides who he pleases, and the hadiths show that spirit went to Imam Ali (a) and Imams (a) after and so the holy spirit or spirit of God's Authority/Command is a station held by the Imams (a) one after another.

Between Jesus (a) and Mohammad (s) it was held by Elyas/Elijah (a).

If we read the prophecy of the praised one/comforter (however you translate it), then definitely is clear Mohammad (s) was going to come. The trinity is an obscure derivation from the gospels with no basis.

If Christians stick to what is clear, they would hold one God and see the holy spirit to be a station held by his chosen and is a light in the souls of all mankind true but is not a 1/3 godhead thing.

The problem is not solved by making all of Quran ambiguous and making Angels not real, etc.. This doesn't help alleviate people following caprice with respect to scripture but amplifies it.

 

[TransmutingSoul]

There is room for interpretation for many concepts and verses. But then there is taking language way out of place, and following ambiguity out of caprice.

The Quran quotes Jesus (a) often, never quoted that part, so I can't verify if he said it or not. But I know according to Gospels Jesus (a) did say he was light of the world so long as he was in the world. And Quran shows the spirit in Mohammad (s) is a light by which God guides who he pleases, and the hadiths show that spirit went to Imam Ali (a) and Imams (a) after and so the holy spirit or spirit of God's Authority/Command is a station held by the Imams (a) one after another.

Between Jesus (a) and Mohammad (s) it was held by Elyas/Elijah (a).

If we read the prophecy of the praised one/comforter (however you translate it), then definitely is clear Mohammad (s) was going to come. The trinity is an obscure derivation from the gospels with no basis.

If Christians stick to what is clear, they would hold one God and see the holy spirit to be a station held by his chosen and is a light in the souls of all mankind true but is not a 1/3 godhead thing.

The problem is not solved by making all of Quran ambiguous and making Angels not real, etc.. This doesn't help alleviate people following caprice with respect to scripture but amplifies it.

What it boils down to Link is the Word of God.

In tge end, It is your own opinions VS what Baha'u'llah offered as a Messenger.

You get to make your choice, as I do mine. I see Baha'u'llah has explained the Quran and Bible in great detail.

I personally can embrace all God given religions and their scriptures, that after all is what the OP is all about.

Regards Tony

 

[Dawnofhope]

See post 1100. But at the same time, I congratulate you personally in being able to listen, and hence alter your list of manifestations, as seen in this post, to exclude Krishna, at least in this forum.

I've responded to post 1100. Thank you.

Like you I am here to ensure my faith is properly represented and participants understand what the Baha'i is and what it teaches. It does not bother me if participants disagree or don't like the Baha'i Faith. My concern is to correct misunderstandings.

Krishna is not the Founder of Hinduism. Many Hindu sects such as Saivite don't believe in Avatars. Krishna is seen as Vishnu incarnate. These are obvious and easy things to correct. Similarly there are basic misunderstandings non-Baha'is have about the Baha'i Faith.

 

[Link]

What it boils down to Link is the Word of God.

It is your opinions VS what Baha'u'llah offered as a Messenger.

You get to make your choice, as I do mine. I see Baha'u'llah has explained the Quran and Bible in great detail.

I personally can embrace all God given religions and their scriptures, that after all is what the OP is all about.

Regards Tony

You are caught in circular reasoning. Baha'allah has explained some of Quran in great detail but is his explanation reasonable? If you say it reasonable because he is a Messenger of God, and I ask you how can we know if it's reasonable what he says, do you not see how it's circular reasoning?

We have to assess if what he says is reasonable, so we have to put on hold if he is a Messenger of God or not to do that. We cannot just say it must be reasonable as he is a Messenger of God because we throw away the tools to see the content to verify if he what he says is reasonable or not.

It's important not to reject true Prophets for reasons we reject fake Prophets. You and I both reject fake Prophets such as the Maitreya who accepts Baha'allah and you don't accept other fake Mahdi claimants.

 

[Vinayaka]

I've responded to post 1100. Thank you.

I must have missed that. Which post number was your response?

 

[Vinayaka]

Like you I am here to ensure my faith is properly represented and participants understand what the Baha'i is and what it teaches. It does not bother me if participants disagree or don't like the Baha'i Faith. My concern is to correct misunderstandings.

Krishna is not the Founder of Hinduism. Many Hindu sects such as Saivite don't believe in Avatars. Krishna is seen as Vishnu incarnate. These are obvious and easy things to correct. Similarly there are basic misunderstandings non-Baha'is have about the Baha'i Faith.

Which parts of the Baha'i faith do you feel need clarification, and non-Baha'i's here have misunderstanding about?

 

[Dao Hao Now]

Like you I am here to ensure my faith is properly represented and participants understand what the Baha'i is and what it teaches. It does not bother me if participants disagree or don't like the Baha'i Faith. My concern is to correct misunderstandings.

In your opinion, would you say it is a proper representation of the Baha’i faith to say that the Baha’i faith “accepts” the teachings of all the other major religions in the same way that the adherents of those other major religions “accept” the teachings of those religions?

 

[Dao Hao Now]

I personally can embrace all God given religions and their scriptures, that after all is what the OP is all about.

It’s interesting that you go from “accepting” other religions (but not in the same way the adherents of those other religions “accept” those religions)
to “embracing” other religions as your new equivocation in masking the fact that you believe that the adherents of those other religions are deceived and wrong about their beliefs.

Have you ever heard the expression
“don’t **** on my boots and tell me it’s raining?”

 

[Link]

It’s interesting that you go from “accepting” other religions (but not in the same way the adherents of those other religions “accept” those religions)
to “embracing” other religions as your new equivocation in masking the fact that you believe that the adherents of those other religions are deceived and wrong about their beliefs.

Have you ever heard the expression
“don’t **** on my boots and tell me it’s raining?”

You know, I think every religion should have a chance to present itself and propagate it's views. But if it's unreasonable, and people point it out to their followers were there are flaws, they should grow thicker skin, and not be offended.

 

[Link]

The only exception is when their views causes havoc and disrupts the security of the country. I don't know enough about Bahai Faith but from what @InvestigateTruth has told me, it maybe Islamic societies have to forbid it under the command to not allow harmful public speech per Quran.

This is because they see Muslims are being punished by God and work against them with their enemies. I didn't believe this was the case when I was in high school and came across Bahai Faith and always told people that they should be allowed to practice their religion, but the way @InvestigateTruth talks about Muslims being in the fire right now according to Quran and other notions he links to political situation they are in, I can see concerns security wise for a country that is predominantly Muslim.

 

[Link]

Imagine there was a new religion saying the holocaust was a punishment from God and the people deserve it. I don't know enough about Bahai Faith, like I said, but sounds awfully like that to me from @InvestigateTruth .

 

[Dao Hao Now]

You know, I think every religion should have a chance to present itself and propagate it's views.

I have no problem with a religion presenting itself and attempting to propagate its views.
I do have a problem with willful deceit.
I consider bait and switch to be willful deceit.

 

[Dawnofhope]

I must have missed that. Which post number was your response?

#1113

 

[Link]

I have no problem with a religion presenting itself and attempting to propagate its views.
I do have a problem with willful deceit.
I consider bait and switch to be willful deceit.

I think Baha'allah taught a very dishonest approach to religion. Instead of seeing the invitation from them, take it as an opportunity to help them out or educate people about them.

@InvestigateTruth and I have been discussing and at for a while now. I don't think either of us is under illusion the other will change. But we are helping people be educated about Bahai Faith and Islam.

One of the things I didn't even consider is the security issue with Bahai Faith. Imagine in Israel, there was a new religion emerging there saying holocaust is a punishment from God against the Jews. Would Israel allow it? Would the world expect them to allow it?

I use to think Khamenei was wrong about not officially recognizing Bahai Faith as a religion (while letting them practice the religion unofficially). I think it's a huge security issue given how much western money goes into destabilizing Iran. I might even go further and not even allow unofficial practice of the religion if what @InvestigateTruth says is true. I don't know at the end nor can say he represents all Bahais, but it's a very scary faith how they interpret punishment of God with the political situation of oppressed people.