Accepting something and agreeing with it are two different things. For example Baha'is accept that Buddhists from a Western background usually see Buddha as atheistic. However Baha'is believe Buddha was fundamentally theistic.
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What if we accepted each others Religion?
- Thread starter loverofhumanity
- Start date
I'm sorry, but I just don't see it.
Post 1100:
True. For practical reasons it’s impossible to list all the religions. There is truth everywhere. In science, in humanism in man made organisations which do a wonderful service to help people all over the world.
But Baha’is believe there is actually only one religion progressively revealed throughout the ages to meet the needs of each age. “This is the changeless faith of God, eternal in the past, eternal in the future.” (Baha’u’llah)
To be recognised as a major religion or a part of ‘progressively revealed’ religion, Baha’is believe it must be inaugurated by a Manifestation of God.
In about the last 7,000 years of known history we believe that God progressively revealed His religion through certain Manifestations. The Ones we believe revealed His religion are Krishna, Buddha, Zoroaster, Moses, Christ, Muhammad, the Bab, Baha’u’llah and after about a thousand years another Manifestation will appear.
Each Manifestation gave laws and teachings for the people and age in which He appeared and covenanted with His followers that He would send them another Teacher in due time. So ideally Hindus would have accepted Buddhism, Jews - Christianity and Christians -Islam and there would only have been one religion. But because we have free will we are free to reject the subsequent Manifestation and most did leaving humanity fragmented and disunited.
As with Hinduism. I don’t know why but it’s also a definition used by the wider community which is misleading I agree and I at first didn’t realise that there were so many sects. Aren’t Vausnavism believers Hindu too? So are you saying the term ‘Hindu’ should not be used at all? The term is used online everywhere. When is it ever ok then to use the term ‘Hindu’.?
Post 1113: Sorry you feel that way. Out of interest, what branch of Japanese/Chinese Buddhism do you follow?
Dao Hao Now
Active Member
Yes “accepting” and “agreeing” can be two different things; they can also be synonymous…and knowing that when asked the question…..
To come back with; “Accepting something and agreeing with it are two different things.”…..
is yet another attempt at an equivocation.
When @loverofhumanity kept going on about
“accepting” the other religions… I asked him the question as I have asked you in the quote above;
Which was answered in equivocations just as you have done.
How about being honest, forthright, and upfront, as opposed to resorting to equivocations, obfuscations, and casuistry and answering the question actually asked:
Does Baha’i faith “accept” (i.e. regard as true) the teachings all the other major religions in the same way that the adherents of those other major religions “accept” (i.e. regard as true) the teachings of those religions?
Why do you call yourself a Hindu and not a Vaishnavite. I’m always get scolded for saying we believe in Hinduism yet you are saying you’re a Hindu but you don’t accept Avatars. ??
Yes, only those Figures.
Yes I do often mistakenly use the term ‘Hindu’ when referring to Kalki Avatar. Officially, those are the Figures which represent our belief in progressive revelation of God’s Faith throughout the ages.
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Baha’is fully accept the Founders of each of the major religions and their original teachings.
It’s a very large brush you’re painting how the adherents follow and accept and regard as their teachings when they mostly disagree with one another. Which sect are you referring to because there does not exist such a thing as ‘the same way that the adherents of those other major religions “accept” (i.e. regard as true) the teachings of their respective religion? Namely because they do not have a common accepted ‘understanding ’ amongst them. The some 40,000 sects of Christianity alone disagree on so many issues so whom are you actually referring to when you say ‘same way’ because there is no same way,
Also, Baha‘is, unlike the followers of other religions do not interpret their scriptures or other religions scriptures nor have priests or scholars who interpret. We follow only the interpretations of Baha’u’llah and His appointed Interpreters which were His eldest son Abdul-Baha and Shoghi Effendi. Now we have no interpreters.
InvestigateTruth
Veteran Member
I backed everything I said, with Hadithes.
Didnt I quote so many Hadithes that says, Day of Resurrection, Trumpet, Appointed Time are metaphors for the Manifestation of the Qaim? Didnt I quote so many Hadithes as well as verses of the Quran, that says "Dead" is a metaphor for "disbeliever", and alive is a metaphor for "believer"? Didnt I quote Hadithes and verses of the Quran that says, Day of Resurrection comes in 1000 years? Didnt I quote Quran and Bible that, people in the past Ages, were in Fire and some were admitted to Heaven, thus, the idea that in future people physically Resurrect is not correct?
If you cannot accept the Hadithes and Holy Books, and instead want to stick with what most human beings understand, it is upto you. I choose to go with what Prophets and infallible Imams said.
Then we can consider we are all caught up in circular reasoning.
Muhammad has explained things in the Bible, but are Muhammad's explanations reasonable? If you say it reasonable because he is a Messenger of God, and I ask you how can we know if it's reasonable what he says, do you not see how it's circular reasoning?
I could use the entire rest of your post as my reply.
I have found the Explanations given by Baha'u'llah to be reasonable, you have not. Does not the same apply to Islam?
Regards Tony
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Sorry I was looking at 1110, not 1100. My mistake.
I would not have responded in that manner.
The questions from @JustGeorge were:
"It would take a long time to list all of the excluded religions... maybe a better question would be who many Baha'is think should be excluded, and why?
I have also yet to see a Baha'i explain why they use the term "Hindu" when a closer term would be Vaishnaivism. They exclude Saivas, Shaktas, and Smarthas(three other major branches within Hinduism), but do not address this."
In regards the second aspect of the question, Hinduism is referred to in the Baha'i writings as a religion of Divine origins. It would be reasonable to assume all four major branches would be considered as having Divine origins.
The word 'religion' is a well established part of English language. There is no reason to assume the word should have a different meaning for Baha’is. The question about what constitutes a religion and what doesn't is best answered by students and experts in religious studies.
Humanity's experience with religion begins with the origins of the first humans. A religion does not need to be inaugurated by one of the Manifestations of God identified in Baha'i writings to be considered a religion.
CG Didymus
Veteran Member
Do Baha'is accept Adam, Noah, Abraham and Moses as manifestations of God? If so, what religion did each one of them found?
What religion did Krishna found and what was his original teachings?
And... What were the original teachings of Jesus? And do you include the teachings found in the New Testament as the original teachings of Jesus?
What do you mean when you say that you "accept" all the other religions? It seems like with those religions from India that we call "Hinduism", the only acceptable one is the one that believes in Krishna. But even with them there is a problem. Krishna is either an incarnation of one of the Gods or he is worshipped as a God. So, why do Baha'is accept them?
Again, it seems like the decision was made because Krishna was the closest person in those religions we call "Hinduism" that could be made to fit into the Baha'i belief of progressive revelation. But then what do you do with those others? The ones that don't believe in Krishna or Kalki? The easy solution would be to find the person the wrote the Scriptures and founded that religion and make him a "manifestation."
Link tends to leave out the material that would support Baha'u'llah.
I did not read the conversations you had with Link in the light he posted, I saw researched and informed replies, with ample Hadith support.
Regards Tony
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Dao Hao Now
Active Member
So once again resorting to equivocations, obfuscations, and casuistry and not answering the question actually asked.
Two of the other adherents of the Baha’i faith have managed to finally straightforwardly answer this question. (Thank you to @Dawnofhope and @TransmutingSoul )
Do you think you could manage to do so?
There is no problem accepting any of the beautiful spiritual truths and virtues all these Manifestations taught. They all taught a special virtue. Christ taught love and forgiveness, Krishna taught that we are not our body and not to be attached to the fruits of our deeds, Buddha ta meditation and the eightfold path - Right Understanding, Right Thought, Right Speech, Right Action, Right Livelihood, Right Effort, Right Mindfulness and Right Concentration, Christ the Beautitudes , Muhammad to return good for evil. How can we not fully accept any of these spiritual teachings?
We only accept as true religions of God, those which have a Manifestation and there are only a very few. Each One had a prescribed Mission and we learn from Them many truths. Abdul-Baha described Abraham as the Founder of Monotheism. We believe Krishna was a Manifestation of God. Anyone who does not accept these things are entitled to their views.
Thanks for your answer. This makes Baha'i seem more open than I've read from some.
Do you find opinions on what is accepted as a religion varies pretty widely from Baha'i to Baha'i?
Baha’is fully accept and agree with the Manifestations of God and their teachings not the followers Interpretations.
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Opinions will vary on this topic. Baha'is are an eclectic group with diverse experiences, education and understanding of the Baha'i writings.
I responded the best I could but I am not perfect. Sorry to all. Far from it. I have books like the Vedas and they read just like any Word of God. Then there are groups like the Sufis who Baha’u’llah quotes so often. But I have very often come across Hindu and Hinduism in the Baha’i writings but never Vaisnavism.
The term ‘Hindu’ is mentioned in the Baha’i writings frequently by Baha’u’llah, Abdul-Baha and Shoghi Effendi. They never used the term Vaishnavism.
“The distinguished Ṣáḥib, may God graciously aid him, hath written that the Hindus and Zoroastrians do not permit or welcome outsiders who wish to join their ranks. This runneth counter to the purpose underlying the advent of the Messengers of God” (Baha'u'llah)
The eighth is the religion of the Báb and the remaining seven are: Hinduism, (Shoghi Effendi)
As regards religions….
There can be no doubt whatever that the peoples of the world, of whatever race or religion, derive their inspiration from one heavenly Source, and are the subjects of one God. All of them, except a few which are the outcome of human perversity, were ordained of God, and are a reflection of His Will and Purpose. (Baha’u’llah)
''The number nine, which in itself is the number of perfection, is considered by the Bahá'ís as sacred, because it is symbolic of the perfection of the Bahá'i Revelation which constitutes the ninth in the line of existing religions, the latest and fullest Revelation which mankind has ever known. The eighth is the religion of the Báb and the remaining seven are: Hinduism, Buddhism, Zoroastrianism, Judaism, Christianity, Islám, and the religion of the Sabaeans. These religions are not the only true religions that have appeared in the world but are the only ones still existing. Source: Bahá'i Reference Library - Directives from the Guardian, Pages 51-52
Regardless, we are told to love all religions so whether it be Sikh or Jainism or Jehovah’s Witnesses It doesn’t matter.
Consort with the followers of all religions in a spirit of friendliness and fellowship. (Baha’u’llah)
“Love ye all religions and all races with a love that is true and sincere and show that love through deeds and not through the tongue; for the latter hath no importance, as the majority of men are, in speech, well-wishers, while action is the best.”
‘Abdu’l-Bahá
Dao Hao Now
Active Member
So the answer to both questions is no.
You don’t “accept” (i.e. regard as true) the teachings of all the other major religions in the same way that the adherents of those other major religions “accept” (i.e. regard as true) the teachings of those religions.
And you are unwilling to be honest, forthright, and upfront, as opposed to resorting to equivocations, obfuscations, and casuistry and answer the question actually asked.
That’s unfortunate.
It reflects poorly on your effort to forge a camaraderie among different religions when you can’t manage to turn off that cheap used car salesman schtick of using insincere disingenuous sophistries in attempt to portray fellowship, rather than being honorable and forthright in my opinion.