What if we accepted each others Religion?

[CG Didymus]

Religions only fragment as they bud off new religions and denominations that find everybody else's religion incorrect, including yours, which essentially declares older teachings incomplete and needing updating. Of course, your messenger's updates are pretty old and dusty themselves now. The affirmations above are relevant to today.

It's so strange... When I hear a Baha'i talk I hear, "None of the religions have the truth anymore. They've all mangled the original message. And even though some of the social laws were true in the original teachings, they were only meant for that time. The next prophet brought new social laws suited for that time and place. So, what we have now, with the coming of our prophet, is a new message the replaces those old social laws and correct the wrong interpretations and manmade false tradition that have crept into that old religion. Everything is made new. The Baha'i Faith is the new religions for today. It is the only religion that has the current teachings from the one true God."

When Loverofhumanity speaks, it sounds like this, "We love, respect, accept, and embrace all religions." But even with him, he narrows it down to the Baha'is only accepting those things they can agree with in those other religions.

But like "true believers" in any religion... You can't argue against them... They "know" their "stuff" is the truth.

 

[Trailblazer]

Why do you think that you have an innate sense of morality? I am not claiming that you don't. I am asking why you think that you do? Is it just because your religion tell you so? Or have you given any thought on your own?

I am not sure it is innate. I think it might have been because of how I was raised, even though I was not raised in any religion. What I saw as a child was my mother and father who were married for 28 years, till my father died, and they were always loyal to each other and never had sex with anyone else. Maybe as a child I decided that is how I wanted to be too.

I do know one thing, that I never wanted to have sex out of wedlock, even though I had plenty of opportunities, both before and after I became a Baha'i at age 17. I did want to have sex after I got married, but that is another story, a very long one.

 

[CG Didymus]

Why do you think that you have an innate sense of morality? I am not claiming that you don't. I am asking why you think that you do? Is it just because your religion tell you so? Or have you given any thought on your own?

As if the sexual moral laws of any religion get obeyed by anyone but a few. I new some Christians that tried to be "pure" and celibate until married. They were sexually repressed basket cases. One of them had a one night fling and was spiritually devastated for weeks. But for Christians, it's not only not supposed to be physical not done, but they're not even supposed to think about it.

It's at least as bad, or maybe even worse in the Baha'i Faith...

"What Bahá'u'lláh means by chastity certainly does not include the kissing that goes on in modern society. It is detrimental to the morals of young people, and often leads them to go too far, or arouses appetites which they cannot perhaps at the time satisfy legitimately through marriage, and the suppression of which is a strain on them.​

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"The Bahá'í standard is very high, more particularly when compared with the thoroughly rotten morals of the present world. But this standard of ours will produce healthier, happier, nobler people, and induce stabler marriages."​

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(From a letter written on behalf of the Guardian to an individual believer, October 19, 1947, in Lights of Guidance, no. 1210)​

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"The pilgrim's note reports the Master as saying: 'Women and men must not embrace each other when not married, or not about to be married. They must not kiss each other... If they wish to greet each other, or comfort each other, they may take each other by the hand.' In a letter to an individual written on behalf of Shoghi Effendi it is said: 'The Master's words to ..., which you quoted, can certainly be taken as the true spirit of the teachings on the subject of sex. We must strive to achieve this exalted standard.' (October 19, 1947)"​

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(From a letter of the Universal House of Justice to the National Spiritual Assembly of the United States, February 10, 1974, Lights of Guidance, no. 1438; the full pilgrim's note is at Bahá'í Library Online )​

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I was in my early 20's when I was around Baha'is. I know for a fact that not one of the Baha'is I knew lived by these rules. One Baha'is woman I knew said that she was constantly being "hit on" by young Baha'i men.

But, as with other religions, in their meetings... everyone acted as if they were pure and holy.

Oh, and ironically, it is their supposed creator that put all those hormones in them to get them to want to have sex... and a lot of it.

 

[ppp]

I am not sure it is innate. I think it might have been because of how I was raised, even though I was not raised in any religion. What I saw as a child was my mother and father who were married for 28 years, till my father died, and they were always loyal to each other and never had sex with anyone else. Maybe as a child I decided that is how I wanted to be too.

I do know one thing, that I never wanted to have sex out of wedlock, even though I had plenty of opportunities, both before and after I became a Baha'i at age 17. I did want to have sex after I got married, but that is another story, a very long one.

So, it is not that you are necessarily innately moral, but that you saw behavior modeled, and that behavior appealed to you, so you are emulating it. And as it turns out, the behavior that you are modeling is congruent with the Baha'i model of moral behavior.

Is that a fair statement?

 

[Trailblazer]

So, it is not that you are necessarily innately moral, but that you saw behavior modeled, and that behavior appealed to you, so you are emulating it. And as it turns out, the behavior that you are modeling is congruent with the Baha'i model of moral behavior.

Is that a fair statement?

Yes, I think that is what probably happened.

Related to this, I saw my mother and father fight, but they never considered divorce, so later when I got married I never considered divorce, even though we fought at times. And as it turned out, not getting divorced was congruent with the Baha'i teachings on divorce.

 

[Trailblazer]

As if the sexual moral laws of any religion get obeyed by anyone but a few. I new some Christians that tried to be "pure" and celibate until married. They were sexually repressed basket cases. One of them had a one night fling and was spiritually devastated for weeks. But for Christians, it's not only not supposed to be physical not done, but they're not even supposed to think about it.

I was 32 when I got married and my late husband was 42, and both of us were Baha'is and virgins. Neither one of us were sexually repressed basket cases.

I have never had sex out of wedlock and never will. That probably means I will never have sex again but I have no interest in having sex again.
There are so many other things to do in this life that are more important and more fulfilling. I could say much more but I will hold back.

It's at least as bad, or maybe even worse in the Baha'i Faith...

That all depends upon what one considers bad or even worse. I consider the Bahai teachings on sexuality morality to be very good, a cut above all previous religions.

What I consider bad is people who claim to belong to a religion and cannot even follow the teachings and laws. On a dating site I have been hit upon by many Christians, and all of them want sex in a long term relationship outside of marriage. One man even told me he knew it was wrong to be asking me to have a fling but he could not help himself. Well at least he was honest.

 

[Trailblazer]

Oh, and ironically, it is their supposed creator that put all those hormones in them to get them to want to have sex... and a lot of it.

God has no problem with sex, God only has a problem with sex outside of wedlock...
I had a lot of sex when I was married, I could tell you stories.

 

[Godobeyer]

Firstly I am only referring to the major religions.

Next I’m speaking of accepting the Founder and the spiritual teachings such as virtues and prayer etc not the laws. The administration of each faith would remain.

So Christians would accept Buddha and Muhammad, Buddhists would accept Christ and Baha’is etc

And instead of segregating ourselves in our own churches, pagodas, temples and synagogues, we would visit each others places of worship to meditate and pray together. We Baha’is already do this and read from all the sacred scriptures of each religion in all our services.

In this way we can celebrate our diversity. I think in many places this is happening and also interfaith breaking down barriers. I myself I accept all the major religions and their Founders and Holy Books and find this enriches me greatly. So I read something Christ or Buddha said and it’s a great experience. Christ says to love and Buddha says to fight hate with love and that the greatest of all conquerors is he who conquers his own self. So much wisdom from all these faiths. Why should we deprive ourselves.? If you have any favourite verses please feel most welcome to share them.

Accept respect the diversity,everyone is free, but don't accept any religion except Islam because i do believe it's only true religion.

 

[ppp]

Yes, I think that is what probably happened.

Related to this, I saw my mother and father fight, but they never considered divorce, so later when I got married I never considered divorce, even though we fought at times. And as it turned out, not getting divorced was congruent with the Baha'i teachings on divorce.

Is it your thinking that the morality that you and Shoghi share are universals? In other words, if someone considers divorce, or if someone has sex without being married is that person necessarily acting immorally?

 

[danieldemol]

Is it your thinking that the morality that you and Shoghi share are universals? In other words, if someone considers divorce, or if someone has sex without being married is that person necessarily acting immorally?

In the interests of being informative, the Bahai teachings permit divorce;
'Divorce is strongly condemned in the Bahá’í Teachings. If, however, antipathy or resentment develop between the marriage partners, divorce is permissible after the lapse of one full year.'
Source: Divorce | Bahá’í Quotes

 

[Trailblazer]

Is it your thinking that the morality that you and Shoghi share are universals? In other words, if someone considers divorce, or if someone has sex without being married is that person necessarily acting immorally?

If someone gets divorced, they are going against the Baha'i teachings and what Jesus said, but that is not morally wrong, since it is not outside society's standards of acceptable moral behavior.

If someone has sex without being married they are going against the Baha'i teachings and what Jesus said, but that is not morally wrong, since it is not outside society's standards of acceptable moral behavior.

 

[ppp]

If someone has sex without being married they are going against the Baha'i teachings and what Jesus said, but that is not morally wrong, since it is not outside society's standards of acceptable moral behavior.

That is a very interesting statement. It implies that you think that an action is morally wrong only if the normative standards of one's society hold that action to be morally wrong.

Is that what you intended to communicate?

 

[Truthseeker]

Accept respect the diversity,everyone is free, but don't accept any religion except Islam because i do believe it's only true religion.

what about the previous religions recognized by Islam, Christianity and Judaism? They are not true?

Edit: Or perhaps since "islam" means submission to God, you intend that those of those religions that submit to God do accept Islam.

 

[Trailblazer]

That is a very interesting statement. It implies that you think that the an action is morally wrong only if the normative standards of one's society hold that action to be morally wrong.

Is that what you intended to communicate?

No, I do not think an action is morally wrong only if the normative standards of one's society hold that action to be morally wrong.
I think an action is morally wrong if God holds that action to be morally wrong.

I believe that God sets the standards for human morality, and we receive those standards through the messengers of God.

What I intended to communicate is that is morally wrong according to my beliefs, although I don't set moral standards for other people.

 

[ppp]

No, I do not think an action is morally wrong only if the normative standards of one's society hold that action to be morally wrong.
I think an action is morally wrong if God holds that action to be morally wrong.

I believe that God sets the standards for human morality, and we receive those standards through the messengers of God.

What I intended to communicate is that is morally wrong according to my beliefs, although I don't set moral standards for other people.

Thank you for the clarification. At least I think it was clarification. What I understand now is that by your beliefs:

1. your god sets the standards for morality,
2. that said moral standards are communicated to humans through messengers of that god
3. that Shoghi's moral standards are aligned with at least one messenger's communication
4. that your moral standards are aligned with Shoghi
5. that your moral standards are align with at least one messenger's communication
6. and that acting contrary to one of those communicated standards is necessarily an immoral action.

Is there anything on that list you would correct?

 

[Trailblazer]

Thank you for the clarification. At least I think it was clarification. What I understand now is that by your beliefs:

1. your god sets the standards for morality,
2. that said moral standards are communicated to humans through messengers of that god
3. that Shoghi's moral standards are aligned with at least one messenger's communication
4. that your moral standards are aligned with Shoghi
5. that your moral standards are align with at least one messenger's communication
6. and that acting contrary to one of those communicated standards is necessarily an immoral action.

Is there anything on that list you would correct?

Yes, that list is correct with one caveat. If a person has never heard of the Baha'i Faith that person cannot be expected to act according to the messenger's communicated standards of moral behavior.

 

[ppp]

Yes, that list is correct with one caveat. If a person has never heard of the Baha'i Faith that person cannot be expected to act according to the messenger's communicated standards of moral behavior.

Let's assume, for the sake of argument, that I accept that this god exists, and that there are messengers that communicate that god's standards. Aside from the thread of consequences, why should I consider that god's standards to be moral?

 

[Trailblazer]

Let's assume, for the sake of argument, that I accept that this god exists, and that there are messengers that communicate that god's standards. Aside from the thread of consequences, why should I consider that god's standards to be moral?

If you accept that God exists, and that there are messengers that communicate God's standards, why wouldn't you consider that God's standards to be moral?

 

[ppp]

If you accept that God exists, and that there are messengers that communicate God's standards, why wouldn't you consider that God's standards to be moral?

I have no reason to.

 

[loverofhumanity]

Accept respect the diversity,everyone is free, but don't accept any religion except Islam because i do believe it's only true religion.

Yes I believe in Muhammad and the Quran also. But it states clearly in the Quran that other Prophets will appear after Muhammad. Muslims do not understand this because they do not study and reflect on the verses of the Quran but instead listen to sermons by leaders who are ignorant of the true meanings of the Quran. Leaders of religion have led their followers away from the truth.