What If We Admitted to Children That Sex Is Primarily About Pleasure?

[Nymphs]

All the posts are completely on topic, except for a few final posts of me and ST Frank, but even then, it shows why we feel as we do about sex in relation to the OP.

Don't take this the wrong way, but threads are not a monopoly.
The title suggests one thing, and others do not agree with that.
It is on topic to debate the thread and add opinions, why do you have so much trouble understanding that?
You seem to constantly think that everyone either has to agree with your OP's, or don't post.
It doesn't work that way.

Have you read the forum rules? Take #4 for example:

4. Spam and Advertising/Off Topic Posts: Posts that are judged to deviate significantly from the thread topic, or that do not conform to the tone or intent of the thread, may be edited or deleted.

Link here

Just a thought.

 

[Nymphs]

Whoosh.

Ignore the data and tell me more about your friends. Please. You're just making my point for me.

Very anecdotal evidence if you ask me.

 

[Leftimies]

You are kidding me, right?

Ugh, I was having a really miserable time at the moment - how the pleasure aspect ruins people's lives when it spirals out of control, etc., I was feeling apathy over that. Additionally my friend got sex forced upon her against her will (sounds like rape to me), and for rapist, that was indulging in the pleasure. So yeah, I kind of just went ballistic on it and exploded with judgemental awe.

Now that I am here, let me re-iterate:

A) Sex is not primarily about pleasure. It was the word primarily that ticked me off. It is about pleasure, yes, but its merely a part of it.
B) Its ok when done with moderation and consideration for others.
C) Its totally ok to teach children appropriately about various things about sex.

I have no problem with sex itself. Its awesome thing when done right with a person who means world to you. Pleasure-driven, self-benefitting sex cannot compare to that emotional overload of belonging and interdependence, I know it from experience. And in any case we teach children about sex, this is a valid point to bring up - whether or not they choose to follow that point is up to them as they grow. But at least make it known to them.

 

[kashmir]

Have you read the forum rules? Take #4 for example:



Link here

Just a thought.

Lol, how on earth is having discussions back and forth on the topic of the thread spamming?
If you have problems, report me.
I am allowed to voice my perspective just as everyone else is.
Disagreeing with the OP,and/or debating others, is not breaking rules, its what these forums are for.

In almost all your threads, you complain at people who disagree with you.
and for the 48362423 time, if you do not wish to hear opposing arguments, you simply do not create threads asking for them.

Your title asks a question, and it seems you only wish to hear replies to those who agree with you.
Those who don't agree with you, you consider that spam?
Seriously?

Notice your one thread, asking other polygamy people to discuss their lifestyles?
Have I even posted on that?

 

[Riverwolf]

lots more kids getting pregnant and having to make the decision to either abort their child or bring it into the world.

How many of those young girls actually get the support of the childs father? He's just a young kid himself who just wanted a bit of pleasure....its very easy for him to walk away and the poor girl has to live with the consequences.

What do you think life will be like for a child who is born in such a situation? They wont grow up with a father, they will be a burden to their mother...probably end up in foster care and being moved from one carer to the next where they are likely to suffer all forms of abuse.

What a life!

And that's what happens when you don't teach children about sex, and when it comes time to talk about it, you teach abstinence until marriage instead of anything that's actually useful.

 

[kashmir]

And that's what happens when you don't teach children about sex, and when it comes time to talk about it, you teach abstinence until marriage instead of anything that's actually useful.

Best advice yet. :yes:

 

[Pegg]

And that's what happens when you don't teach children about sex, and when it comes time to talk about it, you teach abstinence until marriage instead of anything that's actually useful.

whats wrong with abstinence?


Waiting until you are old enough and mature enough is the wise thing to do.

Its also better for all involved if both are mature and responsible before they fall headlong into something that they may not be ready for.

 

[Drolefille]

whats wrong with abstinence?


Waiting until you are old enough and mature enough is the wise thing to do.

Its also better for all involved if both are mature and responsible before they fall headlong into something that they may not be ready for.

Nothing is wrong with abstinence, what Riverwolf said was that teaching "abstinence only" until marriage is not only shown to be ineffective, it increases teen pregnancies and STDs

Because some teens are going to have sex regardless and if they know how to protect themselves from pregnancy and STDs then they're more likely to do so.

Interestingly I believe that teens that sign virginity pledges actually have a higher rate of premarital sex than teens who don't. Which really just emphasizes the point!

 

[kashmir]

whats wrong with abstinence?


Waiting until you are old enough and mature enough is the wise thing to do.

Its also better for all involved if both are mature and responsible before they fall headlong into something that they may not be ready for.

Pretty sure he was approving of abstinence being the most important thing to teach kids.

What you said is exactly why the Op is wrong to teach them that pleasure is the main reason people have sex, they not mature enough to understand the difference in being responsible and doing things because its fun.
Kids barely even understand why they have to go to bed early, eat their veggies, even even take a bath, but we believe that when it comes to sex, they will suddenly become responsible minded at understanding?

 

[Gjallarhorn]

Pretty sure he was approving of abstinence being the most important thing to teach kids.

Uh, no he wasn't.

And that's what happens when you don't teach children about sex, and when it comes time to talk about it, you teach abstinence until marriage instead of anything that's actually useful.

The fact that anyone would even consider it means they have never looked at the studies regarding teen pregnancy and STD rates related to abstinence-only programs.

 

[kashmir]

Uh, no he wasn't.


The fact that anyone would even consider it means they have never looked at the studies regarding teen pregnancy and STD rates related to abstinence-only programs.

who said anything about abstinence ONLY?


I wonder just how many people here that have daughters, are ok with teen boys all having sex with her.

And studies are bogus, they take a small % of people out of billions of people to arrive at conclusions.
I bet half the kids in my area only could give a hoot about the study results and it does not apply to them, why?
They were not even part of the study.

If teens and pregnancy was not a problem, why are the talk shows filled with pregnant teens, some of which do not even know which guy is daddy, every single day?

 

[Gjallarhorn]

who said anything about abstinence ONLY?


I wonder just how many people here that have daughters, are ok with teen boys all having sex with her.

Abstinence until marriage is abstinence-only. Adolescents aren't given proper education on the use of contraceptives or, in my home state, aren't even legally required to be given accurate information about sex or STDs.

More open societies have lower teen pregnancy rates because they are honest and non-judgmental about teen sex, and actively promote contraceptive and prophylactic use. Seriously, look it up.

And studies are bogus, they take a small % of people out of billions of people to arrive at conclusions.
I bet half the kids in my area only could give a hoot about the study results and it does not apply to them, why?
They were not even part of the study.

Discounting studies you have never examined is quite retro. Dark age in fact.

If teens and pregnancy was not a problem, why are the talk shows filled with pregnant teens, some of which do not even know which guy is daddy, every single day?

Not a problem? Who said that? And one reason is because of abstinence-only education programs, in part.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2008/03/24/AR2008032401515.html

 

[kashmir]

Abstinence until marriage is abstinence-only. Adolescents aren't given proper education on the use of contraceptives or, in my home state, aren't even legally required to be given accurate information about sex or STDs.

and I agree.
that is up to the parents, not the school board.
I would teach my kids, that waiting for the right person, is much better than treating people like sex objects.

More open societies have lower teen pregnancy rates because they are honest and non-judgmental about teen sex, and actively promote contraceptive and prophylactic use. Seriously, look it up.

Discounting studies you have never examined is quite retro. Dark age in fact.
Not a problem? Who said that? And one reason is because of abstinence-only education programs, in part.

Sex Ed Can Help Prevent Teen Pregnancy

Studies are using a small percent of people and do not tell the whole story.
Its that simple.

I would not teach my kids that sex is ok as long as you use protection.
I would teach them that growing in a relationship makes for a better relationship, then to treat their partner as a sex object.

Just about every single girl on talk shows, says they had sex because they were pressured to, because other kids did it and their boy friends pretty much bullied them into it.
This is what you consider proper education, to give kids in school condoms and not teach them that girls are not their sex toys?
And girls can say no without being an outcast to her friends?

The fact is, not all teachers teach it right and prob don't even give a damn, they pass out condoms and their job is done.
People here are discussing this like, yes, I don't care if my kid has sex, its important to tell them that its all about pleasure.
Good for them.

 

[Gjallarhorn]

Studies are using a small percent of people and do not tell the whole story.
Its that simple.

So, at what point have you looked into any study detailing the effect of abstinence-until-marriage education vs. comprehensive sex education?

Just about every single girl on talk shows, says they had sex because they were pressured to, because other kids did it and their boy friends pretty much bullied them into it.

What are the odds a single girl on a talk show would be portrayed as a confident woman who consented to sex and suffered the consequences?

America at the very least loves the damsel in distress, which is another reason why teen pregnancy happens. They feel pressured into it and are told to play the submissive role.

 

[Drolefille]

Abstinence until marriage is abstinence-only. Adolescents aren't given proper education on the use of contraceptives or, in my home state, aren't even legally required to be given accurate information about sex or STDs.

More open societies have lower teen pregnancy rates because they are honest and non-judgmental about teen sex, and actively promote contraceptive and prophylactic use. Seriously, look it up.

Discounting studies you have never examined is quite retro. Dark age in fact.
Not a problem? Who said that? And one reason is because of abstinence-only education programs, in part.

Sex Ed Can Help Prevent Teen Pregnancy

Preach.

Also Kashmir has repeatedly said he ignores data and goes with what he thinks is right, so you probably won't get anywhere there. Not getting sample sizes is like Statistics 101.

 

[Nymphs]

whats wrong with abstinence?

There isn't anything wrong with it, but it isn't really feasible. We are human after all and have urges. As long as safe sex, prevention, etc. is taught along with it as options, I don't see a problem.

 

[Gjallarhorn]

Preach.

Also Kashmir has repeatedly said he ignores data and goes with what he thinks is right, so you probably won't get anywhere there. Not getting sample sizes is like Statistics 101.

And understanding that exceptions to findings are included in the findings would be part of any 101 class as well.

 

[kashmir]

And understanding that exceptions to findings are included in the findings would be part of any 101 class as well.

I explained why I don't appeal to studies and the data they provide.
There are billions of people on this planet, taking a survey from even 100,000 random people can not tell the whole story.

Even if they sent the survey out to every single person on this planet, are we to actually believe people will be 100% honest and that what they think today will even be relevant tomorrow?

Sure, we can kind of use them to help, but I would never hold a default world view to them.
I go by what I see in real life, not what some survey says.

Teen sex is a huge problem, simply because of peer pressure.
Even adults suffer this on some level.
I can not count the times I been at parties in my 20's where some friends where tag teaming girls who wanted it too and I was made out to be stupid,gay, etc for not wanting to join in.

Kids and school have a huge bullying thing going on, kids kill themselves over being bullied.
Teachers turn their backs on it almost always, because kids will be kids...

The big picture is what I think about, not some worthless survey that claims otherwise, that makes people feel good about themselves.

And to be frank, almost all other countries made huge fun of are failure of a school system in the USA.
Why are school shootings happening and getting worse?

 

[MysticSang'ha]

I explained why I don't appeal to studies and the data they provide.
There are billions of people on this planet, taking a survey from even 100,000 random people can not tell the whole story.

Even if they sent the survey out to every single person on this planet, are we to actually believe people will be 100% honest and that what they think today will even be relevant tomorrow?

Sure, we can kind of use them to help, but I would never hold a default world view to them.
I go by what I see in real life, not what some survey says.

Teen sex is a huge problem, simply because of peer pressure.
Even adults suffer this on some level.
I can not count the times I been at parties in my 20's where some friends where tag teaming girls who wanted it too and I was made out to be stupid,gay, etc for not wanting to join in.

Kids and school have a huge bullying thing going on, kids kill themselves over being bullied.
Teachers turn their backs on it almost always, because kids will be kids...

The big picture is what I think about, not some worthless survey that claims otherwise, that makes people feel good about themselves.

And to be frank, almost all other countries made huge fun of are failure of a school system in the USA.
Why are school shootings happening and getting worse?

What studies offer is a broader view with a great chance of that view being less-biased.

Many parents in this culture are very reluctant to talk to kids about sex, because they hold various degrees of the perspective you hold too. It's the worry that if kids get the idea that sex is great, here's a condom, go have fun - that they'll run out and jump into every bed of the person they're attracted to to get their rocks off.

Of course, that's an exaggeration, but I offered it to paint a picture of parents' imaginations running wild.

What these studies offer is not to make parents feel good - but to tell parents to get over themselves and teach their children how to be responsible sexually. We teach them how to cook food responsibly, how to drive a car responsibly, and how to manage money responsibly. All of these behaviors can result in illness, homelessness, or death if they don't handle these behaviors with care. Sexual activity is no different.

I have a theory that the biggest reason that parents are highly reluctant to talk to kids about sex is for the same reason they're afraid to talk with their partners/spouses about sex. It's the same reason why they're afraid to be honest with themselves about sex. We live in a culture that is manic about sex...either it's hypersexualized in everything, or it's overtly repressed in everything else.

My hope is that children will grow up not being ashamed of their sexuality, whether it's their orientation or how their bodies mature.

 

[kashmir]

What studies offer is a broader view with a great chance of that view being less-biased.

Many parents in this culture are very reluctant to talk to kids about sex, because they hold various degrees of the perspective you hold too. It's the worry that if kids get the idea that sex is great, here's a condom, go have fun - that they'll run out and jump into every bed of the person they're attracted to to get their rocks off.

Of course, that's an exaggeration, but I offered it to paint a picture of parents' imaginations running wild.

What these studies offer is not to make parents feel good - but to tell parents to get over themselves and teach their children how to be responsible sexually. We teach them how to cook food responsibly, how to drive a car responsibly, and how to manage money responsibly. All of these behaviors can result in illness, homelessness, or death if they don't handle these behaviors with care. Sexual activity is no different.

I have a theory that the biggest reason that parents are highly reluctant to talk to kids about sex is for the same reason they're afraid to talk with their partners/spouses about sex. It's the same reason why they're afraid to be honest with themselves about sex. We live in a culture that is manic about sex...either it's hypersexualized in everything, or it's overtly repressed in everything else.

My hope is that children will grow up not being ashamed of their sexuality, whether it's their orientation or how their bodies mature.

why do people resort right back to the being ashamed part?
who the heck is saying that?
No one.
I am simply saying that we teach our kids about sex and teach them that is is something shared with a partner the love, not just some guy that they just met and if parents do not want their kids going around having sex, that is perfectly acceptable.
What is not acceptable is telling kids that its ok for them to have sex at 13-18 years old.
There is a huge difference is teaching them to respect their bodies and making them ashamed of their bodies.

Odd how you didn't discuss the bullying part.
And yes, today's kids do treat sex like little adults.

the only ones imaging things are those thinking their kids are not having sex, and being responsible, until the girl comes home pregnant.

I stand by my perspective that I would teach my kids that abstinence is the best thing until they are adults and if the boy tells you that if you like him you will have sex with him, I would tell my daughter to tell him to get lost.

If others wish to give their kids condoms and tell them to have fun, because sex is mostly about pleasure, good for them.
Again, good for them, condoms are not 100% safe nor means they wont have sex without one, if they just happen to not have one at the time.
And if said boy of these parents dates my daughter and tries that "everyone else is doing it too" he will be looking for a new g/f, because my daughter will have respect for her body and will know she has her whole life to worry about sex, getting a good education is what kids do.
Oh yah, I live in the USA, I forgot, I mean just an education.

Maybe we are all on the same page, but it don't seem so.
I am against teen sex, they have their whole lives to worry about it.
The fact they are being pressured into sex, clearly is a problem.

Oh yah, that means they are ashamed of their bodies if they dont have sex, my bad