What If We Admitted to Children That Sex Is Primarily About Pleasure?

[Drolefille]

Obviously you don't think it is relevant.

Maybe you are missing something ?

Sure, you can make off-hand comments which trivialise my point. That is just part of the overall denial which I am pointing out. To be expected, obviously.

I don't really think it's relevant no. Not to this particular discussion. In a discussion about pornography and children you'll find my opinions quite different. I worked with victims of child sexual abuse. I'm not in "denial."

I don't care if you believe me or not, but of all my friends I grew up with, I am one of the few who does not have kids.

Hope you enjoyed my almost life history as much as I did posting it.

All you do is emphasize that you value your opinion more than data.

That's enough to stop taking you seriously.

Those who respect their bodies have better relationships than those that put sex first in a relationship and treat their partners like unpaid hookers.

Respecting your body is pretty much lesson number one in age appropriate sex ed. Your problem is you conflate "respect your body" with "don't have sex"
and you assume that "sex is pleasurable" is the same as "my partner is an unpaid hooker."

Your views are seriously skewed and you have nothing to add other than "I disagree because my gut says so." So you mostly serve as evidence of why sex education in America isn't science based. Because "it doesn't feel right."

 

[kashmir]

I don't really think it's relevant no. Not to this particular discussion. In a discussion about pornography and children you'll find my opinions quite different. I worked with victims of child sexual abuse. I'm not in "denial."


All you do is emphasize that you value your opinion more than data.

That's enough to stop taking you seriously.


Respecting your body is pretty much lesson number one in age appropriate sex ed. Your problem is you conflate "respect your body" with "don't have sex"
and you assume that "sex is pleasurable" is the same as "my partner is an unpaid hooker."

Your views are seriously skewed and you have nothing to add other than "I disagree because my gut says so." So you mostly serve as evidence of why sex education in America isn't science based. Because "it doesn't feel right."

Could you have set up any bigger of a strawman? :sarcastic
One more example because I am bored;
The one friend of mine, kind of like a brother to me, had 3 kids with a girl before he was even 25, she aborted the first kid, his mom is raising the two kids, he also has a kid with a girl that left him when he cheated, she moved out of state.
Seen her FB, looks just like him, breaks his heart that he screwed up and cant see any of his kids nor help raise them, because sex is more important than responsibility behind who you have sex with.

He is with a new girlfriend, she has a teen daughter, he has two kids of his own with her too.
They wont last, they fight like cats and dogs all the time.
We all kind of grew up together, they are basically only together because of the sex part and is the only reason he got with her in the first place.
They dont even love each other.
I remember the day she showed up at a party, I told him, dude, use a condom.
"I will, its just a one night stand"
Two kids later, here they are, not even belonging together and sex is the only thing keeping them together.

 

[dust1n]

What If We Admitted to Children That Sex Is Primarily About Pleasure?

Well, what if we did? Where would be the harm?

I realized why my son was confused. He was thinking “accidentally getting pregnant” was like accidentally burning yourself because you didn’t realize the stove was on.

“Sweetie,” I explained, “most of the time that people have sex, they’re not having it to have a baby. They’re having it because it feels good. So you can get accidentally pregnant if you’re having sex for pleasure and you don’t use effective birth control.”

He looked shocked. Apparently I had forgotten to mention that sex was not just for making babies.

“Think about evolution,” I added (because he has also been raised a child of Darwin). “If the only motivation for sex was having a baby, we wouldn’t have very much sex, and our genes wouldn’t be passed on very much. But if sex feels good to people or to other animals….”

“Then they’ll have a lot of sex and the genes will get passed down!” he said, finishing the puzzle. I nodded. He went on, “Do you and dad ever do it for that reason?”

“Most of the time we’ve done it or do it, it’s for pleasure, honey.” He looked a combination of fascinated and chagrined. “You know you were no accident. Before that, I went off birth control to get pregnant, and we were so happy when you came into our lives.” He smiled because he could see me tearing up at how much I love him.

What If We Admitted to Children That Sex Is About Pleasure? - Pacific Standard: The Science of Society

What's the problem here, again?

 

[kashmir]

I realized why my son was confused. He was thinking “accidentally getting pregnant” was like accidentally burning yourself because you didn’t realize the stove was on.

“Sweetie,” I explained, “most of the time that people have sex, they’re not having it to have a baby. They’re having it because it feels good. So you can get accidentally pregnant if you’re having sex for pleasure and you don’t use effective birth control.”

He looked shocked. Apparently I had forgotten to mention that sex was not just for making babies.

“Think about evolution,” I added (because he has also been raised a child of Darwin). “If the only motivation for sex was having a baby, we wouldn’t have very much sex, and our genes wouldn’t be passed on very much. But if sex feels good to people or to other animals….”

“Then they’ll have a lot of sex and the genes will get passed down!” he said, finishing the puzzle. I nodded. He went on, “Do you and dad ever do it for that reason?”

“Most of the time we’ve done it or do it, it’s for pleasure, honey.” He looked a combination of fascinated and chagrined. “You know you were no accident. Before that, I went off birth control to get pregnant, and we were so happy when you came into our lives.” He smiled because he could see me tearing up at how much I love him.

What If We Admitted to Children That Sex Is About Pleasure? - Pacific Standard: The Science of Society

What's the problem here, again?

Curious, did you tell him sex was special and was for someone you love?
That is what seems to be the issues here.
Do you care if he has sex with every girl he dates and tells girls "if you really liked me you would have sex with me"
And breaks up with them if they don't want to have sex yet.
Does that part even matter, or not to how you raise your kids?

To me, relationships do not automatically equal sex.
Marriage does, not random dating, specially at a young age.

 

[Pegg]

Pleasure doesn't mean irresponsibility.

yes, and that is why it would be a bad idea to make pleasure the 'primary' reason for having sex.

They need to know that sex produces babies 'primarily'

 

[Saint Frankenstein]

Curious, did you tell him sex was special and was for someone you love?
That is what seems to be the issues here.
Do you care if he has sex with every girl he dates and tells girls "if you really liked me you would have sex with me"
And breaks up with them if they don't want to have sex yet.
Does that part even matter, or not to how you raise your kids?

To me, relationships do not automatically equal sex.
Marriage does, not random dating, specially at a young age.

You don't have to be in love and on your way down the aisle in order to have sex. You could have a friend and both of you are really attracted to each other and so you get it on, just for fun and because you want to make each other feel good. But that doesn't mean you're going to be a committed relationship with them. As long as you're responsible about it and know the deal, there's nothing wrong with that.

People make sex out to be this fairy-tale crap when it really isn't.

 

[kashmir]

You don't have to be in love and on your way down the aisle in order to have sex. You could have a friend and both of you are really attracted to each other and so you get it on, just for fun and because you want to make each other feel good. But that doesn't mean you're going to be a committed relationship with them. As long as you're responsible about it and know the deal, there's nothing wrong with that.

People make sex out to be this fairy-tale crap when it really isn't.

There is a fine line in what we teach kids about sex.
At least you seem to be on the same page as me, sort of.
It two adults are comfortable having casual sex, that is one thing, but to just view people as a sack of sexual meat, is a completely different situation.
Usually, one just wants sex and the other agrees, but they actually have more feelings for the person and that is completely unhealthy.
Specially if its younger girls, they start viewing their worth by giving the guy sex in hopes of being loved.
Seen it happen too many times in real life, and adults on TV talking about how they have no idea how to have a real relationship because all their relationships were based on sex.

 

[Saint Frankenstein]

There is a fine line in what we teach kids about sex.
At least you seem to be on the same page as me, sort of.
It two adults are comfortable having casual sex, that is one thing, but to just view people as a sack of sexual meat, is a completely different situation.

I don't see anyone supporting seeing other people as a "sack of sexual meat".

 

[Madhuri]

lots more kids getting pregnant and having to make the decision to either abort their child or bring it into the world.

How many of those young girls actually get the support of the childs father? He's just a young kid himself who just wanted a bit of pleasure....its very easy for him to walk away and the poor girl has to live with the consequences.

What do you think life will be like for a child who is born in such a situation? They wont grow up with a father, they will be a burden to their mother...probably end up in foster care and being moved from one carer to the next where they are likely to suffer all forms of abuse.

What a life!

If we let our kids know the reality about sex, it won't change anything. People who grew up with conservative values already are creating the issues you speak of above.
I'm an example of a kid who grew up knowing that people mostly chose to have sex because of a physical need and pleasure seeking and I'm very conservative sexually compared to almost all of my friends who did not have the liberal parenting that I did.

 

[kashmir]

I don't see anyone supporting seeing other people as a "sack of sexual meat".

I don't see any agreeing with things I said either.
They are ignoring it and talking around it.
Everyone is trying to claim that title of the thread is right and I am wrong.

Even you said, "oh they just want to have fun, no strings attached"
That is more or less viewing a person as a sack of sexual meat.
As I said, it is usually the girl who is getting used for sex, and begins to think that is the only way to get love, is from sex.
Pleasure is NOT the primary reason to have sex and is not what we should be teaching kids, they are too young to understand.

 

[Madhuri]

Guys, there's a big difference between telling your kids that most people have sex because of a biological need and that it humans enjoy the experience compared with telling your kids that they should only have sex for pleasure.

Some of you seem to think that those of us defending the OP would tell all children that sex is not about love or reproduction but that it is all about having fun.

That simply isn't the case. But it would be an outright lie to tell kids that the only function of sex is to have children or that we only do it out of love. I do not think that letting our kids know that sex can be for all of these thing is a reality and if they ask, I would not lie. I would honestly let my kids know that humans are driven by desire and seek pleasure and that is part of the sex experience. I would also teach them to be responsible people- the same reason you don't do bad selfish things out of spontaneous desire is why they should also be careful with sex. And yes, how much and to what extent I explain these things will depend on their age and ability to understand.

But I remember being able to understand a great deal from a very young age. It didn't scar me. It didn't turn me into a sex maniac (quite the contrary) and it didn't ruin my childhood. It did, however, allow some observations I had to make actual sense.

 

[Madhuri]

Pleasure is NOT the primary reason to have sex and is not what we should be teaching kids, they are too young to understand.

See, you've interpreted it differently to me. I don't think that the title implies we should teach children to have sex for pleasure. I interpret it as being honest and telling my kids that people do primarily have sex for pleasure. But I would not encourage them to have sex for the sake of pleasure.

Does that make sense?

 

[Saint Frankenstein]

I don't see any agreeing with things I said either.
They are ignoring it and talking around it.
Everyone is trying to claim that title of the thread is right and I am wrong.

Even you said, "oh they just want to have fun, no strings attached"
That is more or less viewing a person as a sack of sexual meat.
As I said, it is usually the girl who is getting used for sex, and begins to think that is the only way to get love, is from sex.
Pleasure is NOT the primary reason to have sex and is not what we should be teaching kids, they are too young to understand.

I'm talking about more of a friends with benefits situation, where you have fun with each other over a period of time but not in the context of a committed relationship. Obviously, there would be respect involved.

I don't think kids should be taught that pleasure is the only thing sex is about, but it's a part of it and they should be taught not to feel ashamed about giving and receiving pleasure. Obviously, this would probably mostly start out as a discussion about masturbation and feeling good/positive about your body and exploring it.

Realistically, sex is about many different things. It's about pleasure, love, lust, bonding, healing, fun, contentment, spirituality, exploration and can include making babies.

 

[methylatedghosts]

I knew the basics of what sex was when I was 2. Mum was pregnant with my brother, and naturally I wondered how he got there. Something like "when a Mum and Dad love each other and want to have a baby, the Dad puts his penis in the Mum's vagina, so that his semen can mix with her egg, and then a baby starts growing". Some time later, the idea of sex being fun was introduced, following my further questions years later. Then around 11, I discovered a new use for my hand, and finally understood the idea of it being for fun. I would dream and fantasise a lot, but it took until I was 18 to lose my virginity. Every time I've had sex since then has been - primarily - for pleasure. I've never had sex because I wanted a baby (though, my daughter is now 6). I was in a relationship with a girl for 3 years, and we only ever had sex for pleasure.

When my daughter does ask me about sex, my responses will be appropriate for her age, and the information I give will be only to answer the questions she has directly. I will not lie about it, in any way. What impression would it give if she discovered the truth later? Hardly creates an open, trusting relationship, does it? I would like her to feel like she could ask about anything, without me dodging, and being uncomfortable.

 

[kashmir]

Some of you seem to think that those of us defending the OP would tell all children that sex is not about love or reproduction but that it is all about having fun.

That is what some seem to be saying.
That is what the title says.

Plus, I gave a pretty long speech about a ton of my friends from childhood.
Clearly those who view others as someone just to have sex with, almost always hurt the other person and leave them feeling used and in those cases, kids without a dad.

As I said, the fact is, kids almost already know sex involves pleasure.
So instead of giving them the ok to have sex just to get off, teach them respect for their own bodies and the bodies of people they care about.
They will figure out the rest.
To me teaching them that its ok just to have sex with someone they really don't care about and its all about pleasure, changes everything about how they view sex.

I don't know a married couple that will say that sex is the primary thing that keeps them together, so why teach kids that sex is to be treated as meaning nothing but pleasure?

I am completely bored, this is just a debate and in the end, people can teach their kids what ever they want.

I think people take me too seriously, as if I am trying to be a drill Sargent of life...

 

[kashmir]

I'm talking about more of a friends with benefits situation, where you have fun with each other over a period of time but not in the context of a committed relationship. Obviously, there would be respect involved.

I don't think kids should be taught that pleasure is the only thing sex is about, but it's a part of it and they should be taught not to feel ashamed about giving and receiving pleasure. Obviously, this would probably mostly start out as a discussion about masturbation and feeling good/positive about your body and exploring it.

Realistically, sex is about many different things. It's about pleasure, love, lust, bonding, healing, fun, contentment, spirituality, exploration and can include making babies.

I think kids are smart enough to already understand most of that stuff already, what we need to be teaching them is to respect others and their feelings matter too.
I don't know why people keep trying to suggest I think kids should be ashamed of their bodies, all I am trying to do, and failing obviously, is to say that we should teach them to respect their body and the bodies of others too.

I don't know why some here take so much offense to others, I am glad a few of us are seeming to be on the same page.

I know many people, guys specially,some girls too, that believe that sex is all about how many notches they can put on their belts before they die.
Some here, seem to be on that page.

 

[Saint Frankenstein]

I think kids are smart enough to already understand most of that stuff already, what we need to be teaching them is to respect others and their feelings matter too.
I don't know why people keep trying to suggest I think kids should be ashamed of their bodies, all I am trying to do, and failing obviously, is to say that we should teach them to respect their body and the bodies of others too.

I don't know why some here take so much offense to others, I am glad a few of us are seeming to be on the same page.

I know many people, guys specially,some girls too, that believe that sex is all about how many notches they can put on their belts before they die.
Some here, seem to be on that page.

Actually many, it not most, children are not taught body-positive and sex-positive messages in childhood, especially in conservative societies such as America. There is a lot of shame that makes up the views that most children get. It is this shame and silence that often results in the type of disrespectful and irresponsible behavior that you describe.

Respect is part of an overall positive message about the body and sexuality.

 

[kashmir]

Actually many, it not most, children are not taught body-positive and sex-positive messages in childhood, especially in conservative societies such as America. There is a lot of shame that makes up the views that most children get. It is this shame and silence that often results in the type of disrespectful and irresponsible behavior that you describe.

Respect is part of an overall positive message about the body and sexuality.

I grew up and am still in low income housing, it's the complete opposite.
Kids grow up too fast and view sex as love, when it isn't.
The cycles I have seen in the last 40 years are obvious.

 

[Saint Frankenstein]

I grew up and am still in low income housing, it's the complete opposite.
Kids grow up too fast and view sex as love, when it isn't.
The cycles I have seen in the last 40 years are obvious.

I have lived in the inner city/ghetto my whole life. A lot of those kids are from broken homes and just run wild in the streets with no direction. Of course they're going to screw up and become screwed up.

 

[kashmir]

I have lived in the inner city/ghetto my whole life. A lot of those kids are from broken homes and just run wild in the streets with no direction. Of course they're going to screw up and become screwed up.

prob why I didnt have kids, didnt find the right girl that I was sure it would last, didnt want to raise kids in broken homes too, I didnt know my dad either.
LOL, even have half brothers and sisters that I could pass on the street and not even know who they are.
Thats pretty screwed up.
used to dream I fell in love with a girl and turned out she was my sis :run: