What If We Admitted to Children That Sex Is Primarily About Pleasure?

[Pegg]

How so?

lots more kids getting pregnant and having to make the decision to either abort their child or bring it into the world.

How many of those young girls actually get the support of the childs father? He's just a young kid himself who just wanted a bit of pleasure....its very easy for him to walk away and the poor girl has to live with the consequences.

What do you think life will be like for a child who is born in such a situation? They wont grow up with a father, they will be a burden to their mother...probably end up in foster care and being moved from one carer to the next where they are likely to suffer all forms of abuse.

What a life!

 

[CynthiaCypher]

When I become a father and my kid(s) ask about sex, I'm just going to send them to Wikipedia.

Then they are probably going to believe that sex involves a lot of hentai and Star Trek slash fiction.

 

[Drolefille]

Odd how you explain the part about "age appropriate" and that seemed to go right over your head when you then discussed the girl I talked about.

No, it didn't. You claimed she was told too much and became hypersexual. Or the behavior you described could have been hypersexuality OR a child who knows some but misunderstands.
Hypersexuality is not caused by over-education in children, it's caused by abuse including showing children pornography. That also isn't "being told too much" that's sexual abuse of a child.

I tend to wonder who all even knows what is age appropriate, considering no one seems to be able to distinguish pleasure from love.
I just love repeating myself too, the title of this thread speaks for itself, the way people are arguing with me also tells a huge story.

Psychologists and the like would be good ones to turn to as they do studies on the matter showing what kids can understand and what things have shown to be damaging to children.

given these two ways to explain sex to kids
1) people do it because it feels good
2) people do it when they love each other

I would teach them that sex is something that is cherished and for the person you love.

Or both.

One of the biggest problems today with young kids, is that girls think they have to have sex with a boy for them to like them and boys think that if girl doesn't have sex with them they move on to ones that will.

Some keep saying they don't wish to raise little sex objects, yet they keep defending "pleasure" is being the most important part of sex.

It's almost like it's possible to both teach children that sex is pleasurable and that it's something valued. The ideas of "kids today" being irresponsible with sex is actually not held up by evidence.

No one seems to be discussing anything else.

There have been multiple other discussion going on here. You're not reading them and that's not anyone's fault but your own.

There is a heck of a lot more important things to teach kids about sex then the fact it feels good.
That should be the last thing on an adults mind, when discussing sex with kids.

By whose standards should it be the last thing on an adult's mind?

Furthermore, by the time a kid realizes sex exists, they most likely know it feels good, from exploring their own bodies.

And if they're not taught that this is OK they can develop a lot of shame from it. But most kids figure out that sex is a thing before they start sexually developing so they're not really masturbating often. Toddler do masturbate, but it tends to fall off in grade school days and due to parents educating their kids on where such behavior is appropriate.

If anything, answer this people.
What would you explain to kids about who they should have sex with and when?
1st date?
2nd date?
when ever they feel like it?

Telling kids to save sex for marriage doesn't work. Studies show that, evidence bears out that even virginity pledges are ineffective. So perhaps giving them the information, the good, the bad, and encouraging them to wait until they're ready is wiser then pretending they're not going to do it.

To be frank, I don't think some here are being very honest and should just admit that they could care less if their kids begin having sex with other kids, because it feels good and actually seem to support that sort of perspective on what sex is.

Having sex with kids is wrong so I rather hope you're not implying children having sex with children here.
Having sex with their peers is natural. I'm pretty sure most parents are going to be nervous or worry because we don't want our kids to be hurt. And when they start dating, they're going to get hurt. We wish we could protect them, but we can't. When it comes to sex that same thing happens, we want to protect them, but if you're rational you realize they have to make their own choices and sometimes they'll get hurt. If you raise a kid well they're resilient and learn and grow and move forward.

 

[Penumbra]

lots more kids getting pregnant and having to make the decision to either abort their child or bring it into the world.

How many of those young girls actually get the support of the childs father? He's just a young kid himself who just wanted a bit of pleasure....its very easy for him to walk away and the poor girl has to live with the consequences.

What do you think life will be like for a child who is born in such a situation? They wont grow up with a father, they will be a burden to their mother...probably end up in foster care and being moved from one carer to the next where they are likely to suffer all forms of abuse.

What a life!

Pleasure doesn't mean irresponsibility.

 

[Drolefille]

Pleasure doesn't mean irresponsibility.

Indeed, and in fact teens are having few pregnancies and safer sex with more education!

What’s Behind The Drop in U.S. Teen Birth Rates | TIME.com

Give them education and access to birth control and they're having fewer babies.

 

[kashmir]

No, it didn't. You claimed she was told too much and became hypersexual. Or the behavior you described could have been hypersexuality OR a child who knows some but misunderstands.
Hypersexuality is not caused by over-education in children, it's caused by abuse including showing children pornography. That also isn't "being told too much" that's sexual abuse of a child.


Psychologists and the like would be good ones to turn to as they do studies on the matter showing what kids can understand and what things have shown to be damaging to children.


Or both.


It's almost like it's possible to both teach children that sex is pleasurable and that it's something valued. The ideas of "kids today" being irresponsible with sex is actually not held up by evidence.


There have been multiple other discussion going on here. You're not reading them and that's not anyone's fault but your own.


By whose standards should it be the last thing on an adult's mind?

And if they're not taught that this is OK they can develop a lot of shame from it. But most kids figure out that sex is a thing before they start sexually developing so they're not really masturbating often. Toddler do masturbate, but it tends to fall off in grade school days and due to parents educating their kids on where such behavior is appropriate.


Telling kids to save sex for marriage doesn't work. Studies show that, evidence bears out that even virginity pledges are ineffective. So perhaps giving them the information, the good, the bad, and encouraging them to wait until they're ready is wiser then pretending they're not going to do it.


Having sex with kids is wrong so I rather hope you're not implying children having sex with children here.
Having sex with their peers is natural. I'm pretty sure most parents are going to be nervous or worry because we don't want our kids to be hurt. And when they start dating, they're going to get hurt. We wish we could protect them, but we can't. When it comes to sex that same thing happens, we want to protect them, but if you're rational you realize they have to make their own choices and sometimes they'll get hurt. If you raise a kid well they're resilient and learn and grow and move forward.

Again, as I said, you didn't even try to relate to teaching a kid that sex should be with the one they truly love.
You just are going completely around it.

about the girl I discussed, I grew up with her, not you.
Her mom raised her to treat sex exactly as its being discussed here.
The mom had many sex partners and on welfare, and so is the girl now.

Lol at the part that kids are being responsible today.

Obviously you would say that because kids having sex because it feels good, is something you seem to support.
Most here seem to support that as well.

BTW, if they were being so responsible, there wouldn't be tons of teen girls on talk shows every single day, pregnant and don't know who the father is.
Many of them have more than one kid.
Plus, not even in school and on welfare.
20 years ago, a teen getting pregnant and not knowing who the father is wasn't nearly has common as it is today.
Fact is, when I was in school, I don't remember one girl who was even pregnant, let alone not even knowing who the daddy is.

 

[Drolefille]

Again, as I said, you didn't even try to relate to teaching a kid that sex should be with the one they truly love.
You just are going completely around it.

The one?
NSFG - Listing N - Key Statistics from the National Survey of Family Growth

Number of sexual partners in the past 12 months
Percentage of men and women who have had five or more opposite sex partners in the past 12 months, 2002 and 2006-2010:

2002 2006-2010
Men 4.6 3.9
Women 2.4 1.8


NOTE: Includes partners with whom respondent had any type of sexual contact (vaginal, oral, or anal sex)



Number of sexual partners in lifetime


Median number of female sexual partners in lifetime, for men 25-44 years of age, 2006-20081: 6.1

Percent of men 15-44 years of age who have had 15 or more female sexual partners, 2006-20102: 21.6%

Median number of male sexual partners in lifetime, for women 25-44 years of age, 2006-20081: 3.6

Percent of women 15-44 years of age who have had 15 or more male sexual partners, 2006-20102: 9.0%

Most people don't have "ONE" person they have sex with or that they love throughout their lifetime.

Additionally I stated you can do BOTH.

about the girl I discussed, I grew up with her, not you.

So you know whether she was sexually abused or molested?

Her mom raised her to treat sex exactly as its being discussed here.

You were present for her sexual education from her mother?

The mom had many sex partners and on welfare, and so is the girl now.

You state both as if they are horrible things. Some people need TANF. (Which btw has a time limit so it isn't a lifelong thing). Regardless that has much more to do with a cycle of poverty than anything else.

But you're 100% certain it came from a single portion of her sexual education? You're like a psychic.

Lol at the part that kids are being responsible today.

Teenage pregnancies are down.
What’s Behind The Drop in U.S. Teen Birth Rates | TIME.com

The idea that modern kids are increasingly irresponsible has been around for thousands of years. You're just part of the cycle that sees youth as irresponsible and forgets its own youth.

BTW, if they were being so responsible, there wouldn't be tons of teen girls on talk shows every single day, pregnant and don't know who the father is.
Plus, not even in school

What part of "teenage pregnancy is DOWN" don't you get? You make it sound like 100s of girls a day are on Maury when that isn't the case.


Regarding your edit:
In 1994 there were 108 pregnancies per 1,000 women aged 15–19 years (Yes, that's 20 years ago.)
In 2010 (most recent data) there were 57.4 pregnancies per 1,000 teen girls.

Teen birth rates in 1994: 58.2
Teen birth rates in 2012: 29.4

http://www.hhs.gov/ash/oah/adolescent-health-topics/reproductive-health/teen-pregnancy/trends.html
http://www.cdc.gov/nchs/data/misc/teenbrth.pdf

 

[John Doe]

This is breathtaking - over 100 posts and so far (unless I missed it) no-one has even raised the subject of kids viewing web porn.

Don't you all think this discussion is missing a crucial point when the average age of first viewing web porn is 11 ?

Talk about the elephant in the room ....

If you haven't discussed sex with your kids by the time they are 10, you have left their sexual education to porn sites. Simple as that. No matter what you think, the kids share this stuff with one another.

 

[Drolefille]

This is breathtaking - over 100 posts and so far (unless I missed it) no-one has even raised the subject of kids viewing web porn.

Don't you all think this discussion is missing a crucial point when the average age of first viewing web porn is 11 ?

Talk about the elephant in the room ....

Not really no, as this was about sex education by parents and not about pornography. Would make more sense to start a new thread on that one.

The elephant was not actually in the room but was in the backyard.

 

[MysticSang'ha]

Again, as I said, you didn't even try to relate to teaching a kid that sex should be with the one they truly love.
You just are going completely around it.

about the girl I discussed, I grew up with her, not you.
Her mom raised her to treat sex exactly as its being discussed here.
The mom had many sex partners and on welfare, and so is the girl now.

That probably speaks to the phenomenon that the young learn more from the parent(s) example than they do from the lecture.

Sexual being revealed - or in this case admitted - as pleasurable primarily is not equivalent to giving kids hands on experimentation on how to find pleasure through sex. Nor is it an urging on the parents' part to the kids to go around and play with their friends and then report back to them how sex games went.

Lol at the part that kids are being responsible today.

If the numbers suggest it.

Do you have evidence to the contrary?

Obviously you would say that because kids having sex because it feels good, is something you seem to support.
Most here seem to support that as well.

BTW, if they were being so responsible, there wouldn't be tons of teen girls on talk shows every single day, pregnant and don't know who the father is.
Plus, not even in school

Ah, this must be part of your evidence that kids aren't sexually responsible as a result of comprehensive sex education.

Biologically, the human sexual organs do not exist solely - or even primarily - for reproductive purposes. Several highly verifiable biological functions offer a perspective that pleasure is the most profound drive and experience in sex. At the very least in terms of female sexuality, a female's menstrual cycle allows for limited opportunities for fertility during ovulation...rather than demonstrate the estrus cycle as present in other animals. The purpose of the human clitoris is solely and completely for pleasure and nothing else.

Just as a couple of examples of human sexuality. Male sexuality is just as fascinating, IMO, and also poses many examples of pleasure being the primary drive of sex.

For the record, I also have my own anecdotes of raising four children with honest and frank talk about sex, as well as continuing discussions with them on how pregnancy can occur, the various risks of STIs, and various forms of contraception as well as fluid barrier methods for STI prevention.

 

[kashmir]

This is breathtaking - over 100 posts and so far (unless I missed it) no-one has even raised the subject of kids viewing web porn.

Don't you all think this discussion is missing a crucial point when the average age of first viewing web porn is 11 ?

Talk about the elephant in the room ....

And did I mention denial ? Come on people ! Get real ! 70% of all web traffic ...

If you haven't discussed sex with your kid by the time they are 10, you have left their sexual education to porn sites.

Because it seems the most important thing we should teach kids about sex is how good it feels.
Not one person will even relate to the fact we should be teaching them that sex is sacred and should be with someone they truly love.

The best part of all is people claiming they dont want to raise sex objects as kids, but keep debating that its no big deal for kids to have sex, because it feels good.

You are right though, most kids already have a good idea about sex, way before they even get up the nerve to talk to their parents, kids learn almost everything from other kids, and now the have the web.

But yah, the only thing that seems to matter to most here is sex is fun, and it feeling good is the most important thing about it.

Frankly, I dont care how people raise their kids, I find this whole thread amusing at the extend people are going to to dance around the fact the they seem to not care if their kids have more sex partners then the average porn star and actually seem to be supporting that.

 

[kashmir]

I could give a hoot about surveys, they are not accurate.
I look at the real world around me and compare it to the world when I was a teen myself.

Is your data counting all the teens who have babies and try to flush them down the toilet or bury them in the back yard?
What about all the kids in adoption centers because mommy was a kid herself and give up the kid?
Where are those statistics?

@Drolefille about the physic cheap shot, what part of I grew up around her, so I know much more than you do, you don't even know her name and are coming off as if you know more than me
That deserves another

 

[Drolefille]

I could give a hoot about surveys, they are not accurate.
I look at the real world around me and compare it to the world when I was a teen myself.

@Drolefille about the physic cheap shot, what part of I grew up around her, so I know much more than you do, you don't even know her name and are coming off as if you know more than me
That deserves another

Those aren't surveys, those are statistics gathered from the entire country by the CDC and the National Center for Health Statistics.

But you'd rather go with how you "feel" about reality. That's nice but it isn't accurate. And you seem like you're doing this: :ignore:

As I noted, your "feeling" about kids these days is the same "feeling" that the Greeks, Romans, Enlightenment, Renaissance, Industrial Revolution eras had about their kids. Your feeling isn't accurate.

Did you witness her sexual education and do you know whether or not she was abused? If you don't actually know these things you can claim to "know" everything about her, but your statements aren't particularly relevant and are certainly less useful than statistics.

But you don't believe in those.

 

[John Doe]

Not really no, as this was about sex education by parents and not about pornography. Would make more sense to start a new thread on that one.

The elephant was not actually in the room but was in the backyard.

A large percentage of the posts here are about when and how kids should be exposed to information about sex.

Not one post mentioned the fact that neither parents nor teachers make that decision.

Everyone is so busy making their own moral judgements about this that they are missing the boat completely.

That is a shame. It means that lots of kids are learning about sex from web porn, while their parents avoid the subject because they want their children to remain 'innocent'.

 

[Drolefille]

Is your data counting all the teens who have babies and try to flush them down the toilet or bury them in the back yard?
What about all the kids in adoption centers because mommy was a kid herself and give up the kid?
Where are those statistics?

Teen pregnancy rates count teens who are pregnant
Teen birth rates count teens who give birth.

You'll notice those numbers are different. BOTH are going down which means that the number of "babies flushed down the toilet" has gone down AS WELL AS the number of adoptions from teen parents because the number of teen births has gone down.


BTW the "flushed down toilet" thing is so rare it makes the news when it happens (because babies don't fit down toilets. Miscarriages hardly do depending on the age.)

According to the adoption-education website:
The Library
2% of unmarried women at any age place their child for adoption. (ChildTrends, 1995)
When they become pregnant, very few teens choose to place their children for adoption. In a 1995 survey, 51% of teens that become pregnant give birth; 35% seek abortions; 14% miscarry. Less than 1% choose to place their children for adoption. (ChildTrends, 1995)

I don't see any more recent numbers. Again, the statistics mean that overall pregnancies are down so adoptions are also going to be down.

 

[Drolefille]

A large percentage of the posts here are about when and how kids should be exposed to information about sex.

Not one post mentioned the fact that neither parents nor teachers make that decision.

Everyone is so busy making their own moral judgements about this that they are missing the boat completely.

That is a shame. It means that lots of kids are learning about sex from web porn, while their parents avoid the subject because they want their children to remain 'innocent'.

You can keep faceplaming but most people here are talking about educating kids about sex before age 11. A few are not, but I don't think you're reading the posts that in depth if that's what you got.

 

[John Doe]

You can keep faceplaming but most people here are talking about educating kids about sex before age 11. A few are not, but I don't think you're reading the posts that in depth if that's what you got.

I am facepalming because I read the first 107 posts and realised that this issue is being so swept under the carpet.

Seriously, not one mention of this extremely pertinent fact ?

 

[Drolefille]

I am facepalming because I read the first 107 posts and realised that this issue is being so swept under the carpet.

Seriously, not one mention of this extremely pertinent fact ?

I still don't think it's particularly relevant to the conversation. But you've mentioned it. So good job?

I'm advocating age appropriate sex education from toddlerhood on up.

 

[John Doe]

I still don't think it's particularly relevant to the conversation. But you've mentioned it. So good job?

I'm advocating age appropriate sex education from toddlerhood on up.

Obviously you don't think it is relevant.

Maybe you are missing something ?

Sure, you can make off-hand comments which trivialise my point. That is just part of the overall denial which I am pointing out. To be expected, obviously.

 

[kashmir]

I don't care if you believe me or not, but of all my friends I grew up with, I am one of the few who does not have kids.
Hell, a huge percent of my friends kids, have kids now.

Almost all guy friends has kids with more than one girl, and are not even with any of those girls now.
Almost all girls have kids, some with more than one guy and not with any of those guys now.
One guy friend has 3 girls with one girl and 3 boys with another and 1 with a third that doesn't even know who his daddy is.
(kind of crazy though, to have 3 boys with one girl and 3 girls with another)
One of the girls has a daughter now, and she isn't even with the daddy, she is with a new guy.
Two of the boys have kids with girls, not married to them and have multiple girlfriends, I don't know enough if they got other girls pregnant too.

The difference between me and them, is sex to me is about love, not to get my rocks off.
I have more respect for myself and the woman I am with to treat her like an unpaid hooker.

Oh yah, I have a cuz, he has kids by 3 diff girls, gramma raised the one girls kids and one of the 4 wasn't even his.
His oldest daughter has a kid with a guy that she isn't no longer with.
His step daughter has two kids and is no longer with the father, but she did marry some other guy.
The kids he(cuz) has with the other two girls, no damn clue,..to him they were find them, XXX them and move on.

A small percent of my friends actually are like me, but married, have kids with one person and living happily ever after.
Same with my other cuz's and my sister.

Given my whole life, the ones who treat sex as pleasure being the main reason to have it, all have screwed up lives and it is domino affecting.
The ones who fall in love and stick to one person, have very decent and moral families going on.

But I will say this, as far as I know, no one I discussed as an STD.

Oh yah, have to talk about one friend and his brother.
One cheated with the other brothers g/f, so he returned the favor and cheated with his girl friend.
Both girls have kids, and no one even knows nor cares who is daddy and who is uncle
The third brother though, is married, goes to church and has one of the best family's of everyone I know.

Hope you enjoyed my almost life history as much as I did posting it.
I could discuss more friends of friends.
But its the same thing.

Those who respect their bodies have better relationships than those that put sex first in a relationship and treat their partners like unpaid hookers.