What If You're Wrong

[stvdv]

That's universalism, do you like universalism?

I had to google "universalism" (see spoiler) to know what is meant with it.
The few short quotes I read, I do indeed like. They come quite close to what I believe

Universal childhood is a common misunderstanding, I think. See John 1:12.

I believe that all humans who receive HIM (God), and who believe in His Name (God's Name), God bestows His Blessings upon them

But to all who did receive Him, to those who believed in His name, He gave the right to become children of God

It's rather like John 3:18 says, in my opinion.

The condemning part is not my favorite way to talk about a God who loves unconditionally, neither do I fancy exclusiveness

Whoever believes in Him is not condemned, but whoever does not believe has already been condemned, because he has not believed in the name of God’s one and only Son.

Hence, I was happy to see the preceding verse, clarifying 3:18

For God did not send His Son into the world to condemn the world, but to save the world through Him

I had to Google Universalism to understand what you mean with it:

Spoiler: Universalism

Universalism is the philosophical and theological concept that some ideas have universal application or applicability. A belief in one fundamental truth is another important tenet in Universalism.

Christian universalism is a school of Christian theology focused around the doctrine of universal reconciliation – the view that all human beings will ultimately be saved and restored to a right relationship with God.

The Unitarian belief that reason, and not creed, defines the search for truth, and the Universalist belief that God embraces all people equally has led to the currentUnitarian Universalist belief that truth and spiritual meaning can be found in all faiths.

Unitarianism rejects the mainstream Christian doctrine of the Trinity, or three Persons in one God, made up of Father, Son and Holy Spirit. They typicallybelieve that God is one being - God the Father, or Mother. Jesus was simply a man, not the incarnate deity

The American Universalist preacher Hosea Ballou told his followers that heavenand hell are not found in any kind of afterlife, but simply in the life we create on this earth. He also rejected the idea that Jesus's death on the cross saved us — he taught that what saved us was Jesus's embodiment of love and justice.

Omnism is the recognition and respect of all religions or lack thereof; those who hold this belief are called omnists (or Omnists). The Oxford English Dictionary (OED) quotes as the term's earliest usage by English poet Philip J. Bailey: in 1839 "I am an Omnist, and believe in all religions".

 

[Skywalker]

I had to google "universalism" (see spoiler) to know what is meant with it.
The few short quotes I read, I do indeed like. They come quite close to what I believe


I believe that all humans who receive HIM (God), and who believe in His Name (God's Name), God bestows His Blessings upon them





The condemning part is not my favorite way to talk about a God who loves unconditional

Hence, I was happy to see the preceding verse, clarifying 3:18




I don't know anything about Universalism, hence I googled a bit to understand what you mean with it

Spoiler: Universalism

Universalism is the philosophical and theological concept that some ideas have universal application or applicability. A belief in one fundamental truth is another important tenet in Universalism.

Christian universalism is a school of Christian theology focused around the doctrine of universal reconciliation – the view that all human beings will ultimately be saved and restored to a right relationship with God.

The Unitarian belief that reason, and not creed, defines the search for truth, and the Universalist belief that God embraces all people equally has led to the currentUnitarian Universalist belief that truth and spiritual meaning can be found in all faiths.

Unitarianism rejects the mainstream Christian doctrine of the Trinity, or three Persons in one God, made up of Father, Son and Holy Spirit. They typicallybelieve that God is one being - God the Father, or Mother. Jesus was simply a man, not the incarnate deity

The American Universalist preacher Hosea Ballou told his followers that heavenand hell are not found in any kind of afterlife, but simply in the life we create on this earth. He also rejected the idea that Jesus's death on the cross saved us — he taught that what saved us was Jesus's embodiment of love and justice.

Omnism is the recognition and respect of all religions or lack thereof; those who hold this belief are called omnists (or Omnists). The Oxford English Dictionary (OED) quotes as the term's earliest usage by English poet Philip J. Bailey: in 1839 "I am an Omnist, and believe in all religions".

God is love but even the most fair judge has to punish someone who committed a crime. A judge who let a rapist go free would not be a just judge. Believing that God wouldnt people for their sins insults his holiness. People don't go to hell because they are sinners they go to hell because they reject Jesus.

 

[Subduction Zone]

God is love but even the most fair judge has to punish someone who committed a crime. A judge who let a rapist go free would not be a just judge. Believing that God wouldnt people for their sins insults his holiness. People don't go to hell because they are sinners they go to hell because they reject Jesus.

That is fine. But an infinite punishment for a limited "crime" is always unjust. The God of the Bible appears to be extremely unjust and therefore evil.

 

[stvdv]

God is love but even the most fair judge has to punish someone who committed a crime. A judge who let a rapist go free would not be a just judge. Believing that God wouldnt people for their sins insults his holiness. People don't go to hell because they are sinners they go to hell because they reject Jesus.

I respect your opinion. I do have a different view on this though

Believing that God wouldnt people for their sins insults his holiness.

I do like it, that God let you make "forget" to type that specific word between "wouldnt" and "people"

I don't believe in coincidence. God is Great and nothing happens without His Will, IMHO

Note: I did not give my definition of God here; might differ from yours

 

[Skywalker]

That is fine. But an infinite punishment for a limited "crime" is always unjust. The God of the Bible appears to be extremely unjust and therefore evil.

A person robbing a bank is not punished based on the amount of time the commission of their crime took.

 

[Skywalker]

I respect your opinion. I do have a different view on this though


I do like it, that God let you make "forget" to type that specific word between "wouldnt" and "people"

I don't believe in coincidence. God is Great and nothing happens without His Will, IMHO

Note: I did not give my definition of God here; might differ from yours

What's your different view?

God is great and in control and part of that holiness is also punishing people for their sins. What's your definition of God?

 

[Revoltingest]

There are many good reasons that people choose to believe in God. And there is no "evidence" either way. So if it helps them, why not? If it helped you, why not?

"Why not"? is the wrong question to ask me.
It presumes I say anyone shouldn't do what
calls to them....generally speaking.

 

[Revoltingest]

People believe in atheism and evolution because it fits lifestyles of people wanting to do what they want to do.

Those things are unrelated to anything I do...other than posting on RF.

Its more of a pride issue than giving up a specific behavior. Islam is convenient to believe because its about God loving a certain group of people. There isn't a choice to believe something when there is no evidence of arguement for believing it, but if you aren't thinking about the magnitude of what a belief system is about or why you believe it, its very easy to be in denial and believe its true. Rejecting nonsense happens automatically once you realize that what you used to believe is nonsense. The people in the book of Acts who used to believe in magic realized that its nonsense when they found God. I think people believe in certain beliefs a lot less than they seem-its more about a lifestyle of what belief system fits them. Magic fits people's desire to fill the void in their hearts with sensationalism.

OK.

 

[Skywalker]

Those things are unrelated to anything I do...other than posting on RF.

OK.

They are related to what you said about people can't choose to believe something because it's convenient.

 

[Revoltingest]

They are related to what you said about people can't choose to believe something because it's convenient.

There seems to be some miscommunication here.

 

[Skywalker]

There seems to be some miscommunication here.

You mentioned how if something is nonsense you can't believe it regardless of how convenient it is because people notice nonsense.

 

[Revoltingest]

You mentioned how if something is nonsense you can't believe it regardless of how convenient it is because people notice nonsense.

I can't believe nonsense.
But many people can.
If it works for them, & doesn't harm others, then I'm OK with it.

I know many intelligent, educated, fine people who believe
things I find bonkers. And they tolerate me, despite finding
my beliefs loopy. Ain't nobody perfect.

 

[stvdv]

What's your different view?

You believe that "Jesus is the highway ... the only way" (reading your words)
Hence it is wise not to tell you my view ... because you are not open to another view
Jesus says "Thou shall not judge", hence I don't want to be the cause for giving you the opportunity to judge

God is great and in control and part of that holiness is also punishing people for their sins.

I already replied to the above in my previous reply to you ... saying ... I respect your opinion ... I have a different view on this

 

[stvdv]

What's your definition of God?

IMO: God is beyond "form" and "name", hence God is beyond "definition", hence I can not give you a definition of God

 

[Skywalker]

I can't believe nonsense.
But many people can.
If it works for them, & doesn't harm others, then I'm OK with it.

I know many intelligent, educated, fine people who believe
things I find bonkers. And they tolerate me, despite finding
my beliefs loopy. Ain't nobody perfect.

I agree with you. I think people believe nonsense because it's convenient. Like know it all people talk nonsense for hours and believe it because it feeds their ego and people listen to them and believe it because they find it entertaining. I believe that people believing lies about God not existing is the same. It's convenient for our pride of not wanting to be told what we are doing is wrong. Evolution is convenient for high school aged people because teenagers have a rebellious nature.

 

[McBell]

I believe that people believing lies about God not existing is the same.

The double standards that have to be clung to in order to make this claim is mind boggling.

 

[Revoltingest]

I agree with you. I think people believe nonsense because it's convenient. Like know it all people talk nonsense for hours and believe it because it feeds their ego and people listen to them and believe it because they find it entertaining. I believe that people believing lies about God not existing is the same. It's convenient for our pride of not wanting to be told what we are doing is wrong. Evolution is convenient for high school aged people because teenagers have a rebellious nature.

OK.

 

[Skywalker]

You believe that "Jesus is the highway ... the only way" (reading your words)
Hence it is wise not to tell you my view ... because you are not open to another view
Jesus says "Thou shall not judge", hence I don't want to be the cause for giving you the opportunity to judge


I already replied to the above in my previous reply to you ... saying ... I respect your opinion ... I have a different view on this

I am open to listen to what you and other people have to say. I believe Jesus is the only way to God but that doesn't mean I discount listening to the opinions of people who disagree with me. I wouldn't judge you for not agreeing with me.

What's your different view on who God is?

 

[Skywalker]

IMO: God is beyond "form" and "name", hence God is beyond "definition", hence I can not give you a definition of God

I believe Yahweh is the closest there is to the name of the self existing eternal Godhead. I also believe that no sinner can see God in His fullness and live.

 

[Skywalker]

The double standards that have to be clung to in order to make this claim is mind boggling.

What double standards do I have? I might believe lies that are convenient at times because I am a sinner just like you. What do I have to gain by believing in Jesus? I didn't say that I had anything to gain so I wasn't expressing any double standards.