What If You're Wrong

[Evangelicalhumanist]

From the perception of the man in Dr. Oliver Sacks' book, he had evidence that his wife was a hat. So in his view, yes, his wife was a hat.

From the perception of the woman with anosognosia, she had evidence that it was her son's arm. So in her view, yes, it was her son's arm.

Tell how these two people's views affected you. What do you have to gain, aside from stroking your ego, in telling them they're wrong? How do they benefit from you telling them they're wrong?

These are their truths. What right do you have to impose your truths upon them?

Me? I have none. However, they were under the medical care of a neurologist. Are you suggesting that he had no right either?

And what would you say to that poor man's wife -- who probably, quite frankly, would really like to be thought of as a real person, by her own husband? Or do you think her feelings should be ignored?

And by the way, I find your perception of what to do with an illness that happens to be of the mind somewhat odd.

 

[SalixIncendium]

Me? I have none. However, they were under the medical care of a neurologist. Are you suggesting that he had no right either?

Would any of the parties have benefited from the doctor telling them they were wrong? If your answer is no, then I am.

And what would you say to that poor man's wife -- who probably, quite frankly, would really like to be thought of as a real person, by her own husband? Or do you think her feelings should be ignored?

Are you suggesting that the doctor is responsible for her feelings? Is her husband? Because in my opinion, she is responsible for her own feelings. If her husband sees her as a hat, and she would like to be seen as a real person, then rather than changing her husband, perhaps she should change her situation.

I just went though a similar situation personally. My supervisor was toxic and abusive. He was sucking the the passion to do my job out of me. I changed my situation by quitting my job. Should I have stuck around and try to change him?

And by the way, I find your perception of what to do with an illness that happens to be of the mind somewhat odd.

Noted.

 

[Bear Wild]

Here is a popular video featuring Richard Dawkins which has almost 60 000 likes:

I know, many atheists here don't agree with Richard Dawkins.

Anyway, since thousands of Youtube likes speak a clear language, I thought I could make it a thread.

Whan asked what if he is wrong with the Christian God, he replied we could all be wrong about the Flying Spaghetti Monster, for instance. Or about the great Juju at the bottom of the sea.

In my opinion, that didn't answer the question.

If we are wrong about the creator if there is one... it's like being wrong about the host of where we are invited. It does matter.

Please note there was a quite similar thread recently: why is it important to "Believe"..?, it was focused more on salvation, if I understood it right.

I cant help but post objections to Pascal's wager again

 

[Bear Wild]

Here is a popular video featuring Richard Dawkins which has almost 60 000 likes:

I know, many atheists here don't agree with Richard Dawkins.

Anyway, since thousands of Youtube likes speak a clear language, I thought I could make it a thread.

Whan asked what if he is wrong with the Christian God, he replied we could all be wrong about the Flying Spaghetti Monster, for instance. Or about the great Juju at the bottom of the sea.

In my opinion, that didn't answer the question.

If we are wrong about the creator if there is one... it's like being wrong about the host of where we are invited. It does matter.

Please note there was a quite similar thread recently: why is it important to "Believe"..?, it was focused more on salvation, if I understood it right.

And you can't prove that god dosen't exist debunked.

 

[QuestioningMind]

Not necessarily. Many religions are not exclusionary in that way. They tend to presume that everyone has their own "pathway to God" and that all pathways are equally legitimate. And the exclusive aspect of some Christian religious expression is, I think, a misread of the original Christian message and promise.

As long as there are more than one exclusionary religion then you'd be taking a gamble if you chose just one of them to follow.

 

[thomas t]

Who cares what "Dawkins" says?

Turn the question around.

What of you theists with your huge investment
in religion, what if you are wrong?

No god, no supernatural, no afterlife?
Is that ever seriously considered?

Its of more immediate and obvious importance
than the Pascals ger you are offering.

You get one life, and to waste so much of it on
nonsense-?

Does this get even 39 seconds of serious
thought?

Thank you, Audie for your thoughful reply.
My religious life was worth living every minute, in my view. I converted at the age of 22 and I don't want to miss a second.

If im wrong in wrong, i can live with that. How about you, can you live contently if you are proven wrong?

Honestly, I think when it comes to this one question: is there a God... I personally believe that noone can prove my take wrong.
If I am proven wrong in other matters I hope I would try to learn.

 

[Evangelicalhumanist]

Would any of the parties have benefited from the doctor telling them they were wrong? If your answer is no, then I am.

Are you suggesting that the doctor is responsible for her feelings? Is her husband? Because in my opinion, she is responsible for her own feelings. If her husband sees her as a hat, and she would like to be seen as a real person, then rather than changing her husband, perhaps she should change her situation.

I just went though a similar situation personally. My supervisor was toxic and abusive. He was sucking the the passion to do my job out of me. I changed my situation by quitting my job. Should I have stuck around and try to change him?

I'm sorry, but I just have to say this is bizarre. To compare your situation with a bad boss, to a woman married to a husband suffering from an illness, is ludicrous. Most people who marry make a solemn promise to support one another, including "in sickness and in health." I happen to find this to be one of the most important parts of marrying. Even though I'm gay, when my partner came down with Guillaine-Barre Syndrome and was 8 1/2 months in hospital, me running to the hospital from work twice every day to feed him lunch and dinner because he was paralyzed, and now I am providing life-long support because he will NEVER get all of his functionality back. What, I should have dumped in (in his illness) and gone and found somebody who needed less effort?

Um...no thank you.

 

[PureX]

As long as there are more than one exclusionary religion then you'd be taking a gamble if you chose just one of them to follow.

It's possible that even the exclusive religious understanding of God is one of many acceptable pathways. So that although the exclusive aspect is real and applicable for those who follow that path, it is not real or applicable to others. People keep assuming it has to be either/or, when in actuality it's all of the above.

 

[QuestioningMind]

It's possible that even the exclusive religious understanding of God is one of many acceptable pathways. So that although the exclusive aspect is real and applicable for those who follow that path, it is not real or applicable to others. People keep assuming it has to be either/or, when in actuality it's all of the above.

Well, in that case then atheists are taking no more of a gamble than anyone else.

 

[ChristineM]

I personally believe that noone can prove my take wrong.

Hypothetically, if it can ever be proven that no god exists what would your take be...

For me, should the reverse occur and a god were proven to exist i would first like to ask it some very searching questions, the answers would help the decision on which way i jump.

If I am proven wrong in other matters I hope I would try to learn.

Sounds good to me

 

[thomas t]

Suppose you were walking down the street and noticed a party. Someone at the party invites you in. You assume that the person who invited you to be the host. You have a wonderful time, but towards the end, you find out someone else was the host. And it was someone you hadn't seen at the party. But you were told by another party-goer that this other person was the correct host. When pressed, you find out that the person who told you wasn't sure who the host is either.

How much does it matter that you were wrong about the host?

As far as I can see, very little.

Thank you for following my line of thought.

If I broke a glass... I would want to know who the real host is.
I assume I would also like to know whom to give thanks for the party.

 

[PureX]

Well, in that case then atheists are taking no more of a gamble than anyone else.

The atheist's gamble would be that they are possibly denying themselves something of significant value to them in this life by choosing to assume that this life is all there is.

 

[thomas t]

It isn’t for me. It is for people who need to satiate their egos by proving they’re right while proving others wrong.

did you mean me?
(In case you did...)
No I'm not satiating my ego by trying to prove others wrong.
I see some young Christians deconverting from Christian faith - and I thought it best I open up threads like this one.

 

[SalixIncendium]

I'm sorry, but I just have to say this is bizarre. To compare your situation with a bad boss, to a woman married to a husband suffering from an illness, is ludicrous. Most people who marry make a solemn promise to support one another, including "in sickness and in health." I happen to find this to be one of the most important parts of marrying. Even though I'm gay, when my partner came down with Guillaine-Barre Syndrome and was 8 1/2 months in hospital, me running to the hospital from work twice every day to feed him lunch and dinner because he was paralyzed, and now I am providing life-long support because he will NEVER get all of his functionality back. What, I should have dumped in (in his illness) and gone and found somebody who needed less effort?

Um...no thank you.

You've gone off on a tangent. We are analogizing religious belief with the examples you offered. We are not discussing medical conditions and domestic relationships. Please get back on topic if you wish to continue this discourse.

 

[SalixIncendium]

did you mean me?
(In case you did...)
No I'm not satiating my ego by trying to prove others wrong.
I see some young Christians deconverting from Christian faith - and I thought it best I open up threads like this one.

If the shoe fits.

Do you think the young Christians are wrong for converting away from the Christian faith?

 

[QuestioningMind]

The atheist's gamble would be that they are possibly denying themselves something of significant value to them in this life by choosing to assume that this life is all there is.

How so? What do you imagine I am denying myself in this life by lacking a belief that there is an afterlife? If it turns out that there is some sort of an afterlife then I'll simply be pleasantly surprised.

 

[thomas t]

What's your solution? Are you suggesting that people need to claim to believe in every single god that has ever been proposed in order to hedge their bets? Otherwise if you choose to believe in the Christian god and it turns out that the only god is the flying spaghetti monster, you're just as screwed as the atheists are.

If you think several religions could be the real one... then try to find the one which is really right in your opinion, that would be my suggestion.

 

[thomas t]

Correct, but the host should introduce himself in a way that resonates with all of his guests. God has not done so, so he should not be surprised when people don't know who he is.

last time he did so, he ended at the cross, according to the Bible.
Lets assume the Bible was right.
This time he perhaps might not be eager anymore to come to an environment in which people want to kill him again, it seems.

 

[QuestioningMind]

If you think several religions could be the real one... then try to find the one which is really right in your opinion, that would be my suggestion.

So if you happen to pick the wrong one you're just as screwed as the atheists, right?

 

[thomas t]

And you can't prove that god dosen't exist debunked.

they try to disprove the concept of an omni-God. But God maybe is different from the one concept they just disproved.
Personally, I prefer the concept of God's great but restricted power.

Do you think the young Christians are wrong for converting away from the Christian faith?

yes.