exchemist
Veteran Member
Hmm, I think that may be too narrow. There are several sex determination systems in biology, of which XY is but one: Sex-determination system - Wikipedia
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What is a female??
- Thread starter We Never Know
- Start date
Hey why is it that the chromosomes aren’t really the determining factor in distributing sex organs?
I feel like my class told us why in very basic terms and then moved on lol
Being careful not to misrepresent anyone’s thinking about this, I think that what @Kfox means to indicate, is that unlike autism, which appears to be physiologically determined by etiology, and therefore utterly objective in nature, “gender transitionism” (for the apparent utter lack of a term) appears, etiologically, at best to have a strong aspect of volition overlying a physiologically based condition, and at worst to utterly lack any physiological basis, being utterly volitional and subjective. Would that be right, Kfox? If so, it would appear to represent an observation which demands an answer, for saying that this phenomenon is utterly volitional and lacking any physiological basis, appears tantamount to calling it a mental disorder. Can it, or might it yet be demonstrated that there is some chromosomal, biochemical, physiological or anatomical basis associated with the desire to change one’s apparent gender?
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A Transvestite is basically a crossdresser. A Transvestite male is a man that dress like a woman. Such a man cannot become pregnant.
Kids don’t know the difference between autism, down syndrome, retardation, or other mental disorders; they are not diagnosing themselves of these conditions; the parents are getting this information and taking them to the doctors. And let’s face it; such mental disorders are not trendy among teens, but there is evidence that many teens claim to be transgender because they find it trendy.
When you compared it to autism in how it is diagnosed, I said it was different.
I think parents have a better understanding of it than children.
Perhaps the person who brought it up cares.
ImmortalFlame
Woke gremlin
Could you post this evidence, out of curiosity?
That's how the term is used today, but historically transvestite and transsexual have both been used in place of transgender, hence 'then.' I was talking about how the vocabulary has evolved.
You just seem pretty out of touch with how kids (granted kids that are approaching preteen) use social media to explore symptoms today. Like I personally know a lot of autistic kids who knew long before their parents because they had access to community and research with all the interest special interest and hyperfocus can bring, ever since kids have had regular access to the internet and places like Tumblr, tiktok and youtube.
Also, neither autism nor transgender is trendy, both are still received quite poorly in the US at any age.
Of course there are differences, but they are also similar, as I already described. Lots of people, including myself, discovered their autism through personal research and exploration then brought it to a doctor for evaluation and screening. And that is how people with gender dysphoria also often get diagnosed. These two processes are similar and worthy of contrast.
So since this is a personal experience I'm using to relate to the trans crowd, it's pretty foolish to me to go 'nuh uh it's not like that.'
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Not really. I brought it up as a useful analogy and you've clung to it like an anchor.
There is no physiological scan done for either autism or gender dysphoria. Both rely on subjective evaluation from the patient. Both have, in studies, shown some physiological characteristics in the brain, but not with enough reliability or accessibility to be used in diagnostic medicine.
I would tend to think that gender dysphoria was closely accompanied by chromosomal anomalies such as have been noted above, but that is only me surmising. The reliance upon subjective criteria seems unfortunate, as it does not aid in coming to understand this more fully.
wellwisher
Well-Known Member
Instinctive urges have an end game, such as eating is needed to feed the body. Sex was designed for procreation, etc. To help with this end game, we have neural carrots on the stick that help lead us to the end game, such as the enjoyment of eating.
Biological sex is connected to an end game, while gender is connected to the carrot on the stick. This carrot can appear better, if there is group think; add prestige to the carrot, since there is additional reward from the group, compared to eating alone. This allows group induced fads to make some carrots appear to so good, the end game is lost, in the quest for the latest carrot.
In the case of eating, many people get hung up on wanting to be thin or wanting to eat too much. This can alter the state of the carrot; shinier or less shiny, and make the balance implied by the endgame; feed the body, come out wrong. The result can be poor health or malnutrition.
Gender altering with drugs and surgery can alter the end game as well as the carrot. One may gain the secondary characteristics of the other sex, but this may not allow the end game associated with the new or preferred gender. This can cause an instinctive mismatch. It is not clear what to expect, so be careful.
For example , say we could do surgery and use drugs to dial any body weight. You dial in a weight that is not part of your natural brain set point. You may reach the ideal weight, due to the additives, but the end game may not match causing who knows what types of problems. The rush to market may be too fast.
Biological sex is connected to an end game, while gender is connected to the carrot on the stick. This carrot can appear better, if there is group think; add prestige to the carrot, since there is additional reward from the group, compared to eating alone. This allows group induced fads to make some carrots appear to so good, the end game is lost, in the quest for the latest carrot.
In the case of eating, many people get hung up on wanting to be thin or wanting to eat too much. This can alter the state of the carrot; shinier or less shiny, and make the balance implied by the endgame; feed the body, come out wrong. The result can be poor health or malnutrition.
Gender altering with drugs and surgery can alter the end game as well as the carrot. One may gain the secondary characteristics of the other sex, but this may not allow the end game associated with the new or preferred gender. This can cause an instinctive mismatch. It is not clear what to expect, so be careful.
For example , say we could do surgery and use drugs to dial any body weight. You dial in a weight that is not part of your natural brain set point. You may reach the ideal weight, due to the additives, but the end game may not match causing who knows what types of problems. The rush to market may be too fast.
You have several good points, here. The one thing that stands out with which I cannot agree is your characterization of sex as having been “designed for procreation”. Trust me, this is noteworthy rebuttal coming from a guy like me, because for my own personal life, I have come to believe that sex reserved for procreation is best, while sex in order to attain physical or emotional pleasure is folly, and a needless distraction (if I need an orgasm, five or six minutes in the bathroom alone will allow me to ‘kill the worm’).
I do not believe that sex, or any other biological imperative, can be properly described as the product of design with a ‘designated purpose’, as of procreation. This is not how natural selection works…with an end goal or a purpose in mind. Rather, it simply selects for those abilities and behaviors which enable the survival and breeding of individual organisms within a species. It seems more likely that what has been selected for with regards to sex is a strong libido, and the ability to produce many offspring. Of course, procreation is easily seen as the natural adjunct to this, but I do not think it to have been a goal in mind “ab initio”. Do you see where I’m coming from?
metis
aged ecumenical anthropologist
As been posted many times before, the hormones and the "equipment" sometimes are not a match, and this not only occurs in some humans but also other primates as well.
I think a doctor would have a better understanding of it than parents
Between chromosomal anomalies, endocrine disorders, and possible neurophysiological problems, it’s no wonder why this can be such a confusing issue. One thing seems certain about it, though, and that is that it seems incumbent upon us as a society to destigmatize the entire issue, and perhaps rethink whether a strong sexual identification is a necessary part of being human.
How ‘peer contagion’ may play into the rise of teen girls transitioning
In the last decade, diagnosis of “gender dysphoria” — severe discomfort in one’s biological sex — has exploded across the West. Between 2016 and 2017, the number of gender surgeries for natal femal…
nypost.com
Teens are becoming transgender because it's trendy, expert says - LifeSite
Gender confusion is such a fad that an Australian children's hospital operates a specialized clinic.
www.lifesitenews.com
I disagree. Remember the movie called “Rocky Horror Picture Show”? That movie was from the 1970’s and in that movie he was described as a transvestite. Nobody claimed he was a woman, it was known he was a man who dresses like a woman. Only recently have people been claiming by just thinking you are a woman, makes you a woman.
What age are you talking about? The average age a child is diagnosed with Autism in the USA is age 3. I doubt there are a plethora of 3 year olds on tumblr, and tiktok diagnosing themselves and telling their parents they need to see a doctor.
What is the Average Age of Autism Diagnosis?
What is the average age of autism diagnosis is a common question asked by parents and caregivers of children they suspect could be on the autistic spectrum.
www.autismparentingmagazine.com
I agree! But what does this have to do with what we are talking about?I think a doctor would have a better understanding of it than parents
Transvestite was a term that was coined in 1910, which lumped crossdressers and transgender people together until decades later in 1949, when transsexual was coined (owed in part to the aforementioned burned sexology university in Germany.) Transgender as a term wasn't coined until 1971 and didn't start making rounds in society until right around when Rocky Horror had its debut. 'Trans' as a generic term encompassing both transgender and transsexual as concepts didn't arise until the 90's.
Language evolves. *Queue The More You Know gif*
The study that presented the mean (not average) of 3 was presented eight years ago, which is wildly out of date in psychology circles since autism in adults (as well as AuADHD at all) didn't start being diagnosed in the US until the last 5 years (with the publishment of the ADOS-2). This study is so out of date it still used data on people diagnosed with Asperger's, which was removed from the DSM back in 2013, which is also when ASD was introduced.
Furthermore, there's plenty of other studies showing how even back then it was estimated that autism was being missed in a forth to half of kids, either due to accessibility of screening or masking. Especially for girls, whose social conditioning led to different behavior than the more researched boys. This stigma also created a lot of incorrect diagnosis of OCD, ID, depression, anxiety and bipolar.
Because the diagnostic criteria of autism and diagnosis is so rapidly changing we have no idea what the average age of diagnosis is now, or what it will be like over the next ten years. But if you take any time at all around tiktok or tumblr you will find preteens, teens and adults sharing their stories about recent diagnosis, and what made them figure out where their parents did not that they were autistic. Who then go to clinicians who specialize in autism and receive diagnostic screening verbally and in writing.
Autism Screening for Adults | Autism Resources
More than 2 percent of adults in the United States are diagnosed with autism. Autism is usually considered a disorder of childhood, but the diagnosis can be missed. It is common for people to make it to adulthood without an autism diagnosis, leading to a feeling that they don’t quite fit in. If...
www.songbirdcare.com
But still; regardless of what they called it, nobody was claiming men have Fallopian tubes, and could get pregnant until recently.
The link I provided did not speak of the mean, it spoke of the average age of 3. And the link you provided did not refute that claim.The study that presented the mean (not average) of 3 was presented eight years ago, which is wildly out of date in psychology circles since autism in adults (as well as AuADHD at all) didn't start being diagnosed in the US until the last 5 years (with the publishment of the ADOS-2). This study is so out of date it still used data on people diagnosed with Asperger's, which was removed from the DSM back in 2013, which is also when ASD was introduced.
Furthermore, there's plenty of other studies showing how even back then it was estimated that autism was being missed in a forth to half of kids, either due to accessibility of screening or masking. Especially for girls, whose social conditioning led to different behavior than the more researched boys. This stigma also created a lot of incorrect diagnosis of OCD, ID, depression, anxiety and bipolar.
Because the diagnostic criteria of autism and diagnosis is so rapidly changing we have no idea what the average age of diagnosis is now, or what it will be like over the next ten years. But if you take any time at all around tiktok or tumblr you will find preteens, teens and adults sharing their stories about recent diagnosis, and what made them figure out where their parents did not that they were autistic. Who then go to clinicians who specialize in autism and receive diagnostic screening verbally and in writing.
Autism Screening for Adults | Autism Resources
More than 2 percent of adults in the United States are diagnosed with autism. Autism is usually considered a disorder of childhood, but the diagnosis can be missed. It is common for people to make it to adulthood without an autism diagnosis, leading to a feeling that they don’t quite fit in. If...