What is a myth, and how does it relate to us?

[Wannabe Yogi]

Mythology is to Philosophy
What
Poetry is to Prose​

 

[St Giordano Bruno]

There was an old set of World Book encyclopaedias in own family home, the place I grew up in as a child and I was kind of puzzled as to why it put the creation stories of religious beliefs that were not sourced from Judeo Christian tradition just as Greek, Roman and Norse mythology was under the heading of mythology, but the Bible creation stories were not. What made the Bible creation stories any more credible that the mythologies they replaced? I should think in the interest against biased and ethnocentric anthropology all those creation stories, Bible creation stories, Inuit creation stories and ancient pagan creation stories should be all under the same heading of cultural mythology and not special privilege that exempts them from mythology.

 

[outhouse]

should be all under the same heading of cultural mythology and not special privilege that exempts them from mythology.

they turn into personal reality when one starts to believe in such story's. belief is the end of the myth.

 

[Wannabe Yogi]

they turn into personal reality when one starts to believe in such story's. belief is the end of the myth.

Many of us believe that being a well integrated person is the goal of Mythology.
Today most experts of Mythology reject the view that mythical thought is to be rejected for modern scientific thought. Mythology is no longer seen as an outdated "primitive" method of thought.

In his book Myth of the Eternal Return, Mircea Eliade gives a very good argument that modern humans existentialist Angst is due to rejection of Mythic thought. I for one believe that Myths can be more helpful then History. History is written by the winners. The truth is hidden. With Mythology if you like it, except it, and find it to make sense it can show you "your truth".
The problem is that modern humans tend to read Mythology like a history text book. When this is done all meaning is lost.

 

[Erebus]

What is a myth?

How does mythology relate to us?

What is the difference between a myth and a story that's simply fictional?

I'm going to go with a combination of what you already said, but also throw in that myth as opposed to fiction serves as a metaphor for explaining/understanding the world.

My argument is that, unlike a work of fiction, a myth actually serves as a cultural basis. That is, a culture will think and act as per the myth. This, in my opinion, is the key difference between a story that's simply fictional and a myth.

While I agree with what you're saying, this does leave a large grey area. Stories like Frankenstein and Dracula have certainly impacted society in many ways, but can they really be considered myths? Obviously they haven't lead to whole societies basing their lives around these stories (though it could be argued that Frankenstein had quite an impact on the way we view "playing god". I won't dwell on this though as it could lead to an entirely new debate ) so does this mean that the difference between myth and fiction is the degree to which the story impacts on society? I'm not sure I have a good answer to this.

Basically, I see the saying that "it's just a myth" as the atheist equivalent to the creationist "it's just a theory." It betrays an inherent misunderstanding of what it is

Agreed, though I do see where they're coming from when people take myth as absolutely literally true. For example, a Christian who says the world was created in 7 days compared with a Christian who understands that Genesis should be thought of as metaphor and possibly the limited understanding of an ancient culture.

 

[Riverwolf]

And I agree

but should you realize? a piece of fiction is a cute little baby myth. Not all grow up quite yet to have a cultural following.

If the fiction is good enough, it will become a myth. what do you want?

Well, some support for your argument would be nice (examples, etc.)

But, lacking that, I guess I'll just counter.

I think that's too simplistic. The vast majority of fiction can never be mythology, because most of it is trash. Look at Twilight. Is that a mythology? After all, it's hugely popular. But no, I wouldn't consider it a mythology because it's just junk in every sense of the word, and is doomed to be forgotten. Sure, it may enjoy the status of pseudo-myth for now (there's a pseudo-religion called Cullenism based on the series), but that's not going to last.

On the other hand, look at the examples I provided for nerd subculture: Lord of the Rings, Star Wars, Star Trek... these have been around for a long time, and are famous even outside their subcultures in which they serve more or less as mythology.

So, I say your definition is overly simplistic.

 

[Riverwolf]

Mythology is to Philosophy
What
Poetry is to Prose​

Hmm. Care to expand on that?

 

[Riverwolf]

I'm going to go with a combination of what you already said, but also throw in that myth as opposed to fiction serves as a metaphor for explaining/understanding the world.

I agree.

While I agree with what you're saying, this does leave a large grey area. Stories like Frankenstein and Dracula have certainly impacted society in many ways, but can they really be considered myths? Obviously they haven't lead to whole societies basing their lives around these stories (though it could be argued that Frankenstein had quite an impact on the way we view "playing god". I won't dwell on this though as it could lead to an entirely new debate ) so does this mean that the difference between myth and fiction is the degree to which the story impacts on society? I'm not sure I have a good answer to this.

Possibly. You definitely bring up a good point. At what point does a story's impact turn it into mythology?

I think that Dracula could almost be considered a myth (I do think that there is a "vampire mythology" which is really just the rules about vampires, and I guess it could be argued that Dracula is the source of those rules... kind of, anyway) but that one is up for debate.

So, yes, you do bring up an excellent point.

Agreed, though I do see where they're coming from when people take myth as absolutely literally true. For example, a Christian who says the world was created in 7 days compared with a Christian who understands that Genesis should be thought of as metaphor and possibly the limited understanding of an ancient culture.

In that sense, it's understandable, though I still disagree with it's usage like that. ^_^

 

[outhouse]

So, I say your definition is overly simplistic.

I understand your view

your religious and my thoughts would go against it, thats not my intent by any means.

I took this head on for what it is.

I didnt say every piece of fiction has the chance to be a myth, only if its good enough.

 

[Kilgore Trout]

What is a myth?

How does mythology relate to us?

What is the difference between a myth and a story that's simply fictional?

A myth is a fictional cultural narrative which embodies archetypal patterns. Mythology relates to us in that it reflects archetypal patterns we associate it with to varying degrees. I'd say the difference between a myth and just a fictional story is somewhat vague, as most fictional stories could be construed as myth depending on one's context.

In common usage, people generally identify a myth as a cultural story or folk tale associated with a particular culture from the past. Perhaps, the label of "myth" has more to do with how long the story has been around, than anything else.

 

[Wannabe Yogi]

Hmm. Care to expand on that?

May I give an example of a Myth that I love.

THE GOLDEN MONGOOSE​

Yudhishthira ordered a great sacrifice to be made to the Gods.When the sacrifice was over some flour was left on the ground.A mongoose ran to the flour and rolled in it.The mongoose’s head and one side of his body was gold.After he rolled in the flour he looked at the other half of his body and saw that it was normal. The mongoose laughed, “Yudhishthira thinks he has made a great sacrifice!But it is nothing compared to the sacrifice of the farmer and his family!” Yudhishthira and the Pandawas were amazed.“Tell us, O mongoose, of this great farmer and his family.Tell us of their sacrifice.” The mongoose said: “Many years ago a farmer, his wife, his son and his daughter- in-law lived at Kurukshetra.They lived by collected wheat from the fields after the other farmers had collected their grain.Each day they ground the grain into flour and ate one poor meal. “One day the rains failed.The farmer and his family began to starve.They went
out looking for grain and found only a handful.They thanked the Lord for the
handful of grain and sat to eat their poor meal.Suddenly a man appeared at their
door.
“The farmer and his family were overjoyed that a guest had come and welcomed
him like a god.The farmer offered the man his part of the flour.The guest ate
hungrily and licked his fingers.The farmer was sad because his guest was still
hungry.
“The wife offered her flour and the guest ate it in one go.She was sad because his guest was still hungry.The son offered his flour and the guest ate it in one go.He was sad because his guest was still hungry.The daughter-in-law offered her flour and the guest ate it in one go. “The guest stood and said: ‘You have shown yourselves to be the greatest
devotees of God.Happily risking death by starvation to fulfill your duty to a guest.
At your door stands a chariot ready to take you to heaven.Get in and go in peace
and bliss!’
“The farmer an his family got into the chariot and they and the mysterious guest
disappeared. “I was looking in at the window.The smell of the flour turned my head golden.I
rolled in the flour left on the floor and it turned half my body gold.But their wasn’t
enough for my whole body.Since then I have searched the earth looking for a
sacrifice as great as that of the farmer and his family.It seems my search will have
to continue.”
With those words the mongoose disappeared


Mahabharata Children

If you wanted to teach people the following things:
-That simple poor people can do and be, much greater human beings then the rich and powerful.
-Helping your fellow man is more important than any religious ritual.
-Compassion for the hungry.

You read a book on the philosophy of giving that would tire everyone to tears. Your children would hate you if you read it to them.
----Or----
You could tell this myth that is deeper and more real than any philosophic explanation could ever be.

Just like you could write prose explaining beauty or write a poem that is beauty.

I am exaggerating to make my point.

 

[Erebus]

I agree.

Possibly. You definitely bring up a good point. At what point does a story's impact turn it into mythology?

I think that Dracula could almost be considered a myth (I do think that there is a "vampire mythology" which is really just the rules about vampires, and I guess it could be argued that Dracula is the source of those rules... kind of, anyway) but that one is up for debate.

So, yes, you do bring up an excellent point.

Thankyou

Yes a lot of literature from the last few centuries has altered the way societies think. As you point out, the modern vampire almost certainly stems from Dracula and a couple of lesser known stories around the same time (there was another in particular I'm thinking of, but I can't remember its name for the life of me). Prior to the Romantic/Gothic period, vampires were completely different creatures. I think defining the exact points at which literature changes culture is incredibly difficult, but the literature of the Romantic period and the enlightenment period in particular strike me as having a profound impact upon Western culture.

In that sense, it's understandable, though I still disagree with it's usage like that.

Yes, it's a little lazy to be honest. It's the equivalent of saying "I'm right, you're wrong, end of debate." Even though it might be completely correct and certainly understandable after an exasperating debate, it's still a cop out at the end of the day.

 

[Riverwolf]

your religious

So? If you notice, I haven't provided any of my religion's mythologies as examples. (Partially because I'm only somewhat familiar with them.) I've only provided my subculture's.

and my thoughts would go against it, thats not my intent by any means.

Honestly, I'm not even sure what you're talking about here.