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What is a perfect being like?
- Thread starter Penumbra
- Start date
Reality can't be compared with any other realities because there are no others, but it can be compared to what people imagine it could be.
I don't particularly agree that if something is the only thing that it exists, it acquires the description of perfect by default. Under that logic, no matter how bad the thing that exists is, it will still be considered perfect.
Can you explain how statements like that are useful?
What is an individual supposed to do with such a claim?
Ben Dhyan
Veteran Member
Yes of course, but life is way too short to waste it fantasizing IMHO.
Who is it that is saying the whole is bad, an imperfect part or the whole? On what basis can that be said if there is nothing else in existence for comparison?
It is meant to save a person wasting their precious time, life is for a finite time and there may be more constructive ways to utilize it.
What is better for life to be spent on?
And it's not about fantasizing. It's about whether the universe is the best of all possible universes. A dream in this context is merely a philosophical tool to compare the universe to something else, and something possibly better. It makes no reference to how much time someone spends fantasizing.
No one here is explicitly saying the whole is bad. I suppose a fair percentage of people who committed suicide today, or died from starvation or disease, might put forth such a claim, but who knows.
The point was that if you suggest that the universe is perfect because it's the only universe and so there are no other universes to compare it to, then that implies that no matter how poor the universe is, it'll still be perfect. This is not a proclamation that the universe is poor; it's a proclamation that the logic is not sound.
I suppose that's all I should say, as this particular subforum is meant for discussion and not debate, and you've put forth your opinion on what a perfect being is and that is what the thread asks.
Which constructive ways?
What constructive thing can I do in a perfect universe?
Here is a stab at it.
According to Scripture Adam was created with human perfection.
Adam has perfect human life being perfectly sound in healthy mind and body.
Adam could choose to control his thoughts, feeling and actions.
Adam could have had instant discernment in that perfect Adam could make up his mind immediately.
Being perfect, if choosing sin [disobedience] would mean never changing back one's mind or never showing remorse or repent.
Perfect Adam was free to grow to fulfill the tremendous potential that would be in a perfectly lasting healthy sound mind and body.
Adam was given a sample garden to enjoy.
Adam [with our help] was to expand that sample park-like garden of Eden to encompass to whole globe bursting with blooming paradisaic beauty with all the security of being surrounded by like honest and loving perfect friends and relatives right here and forever learning and enjoying each other's company in praise of God's loving goodness.
-Eph 1v12
Ben Dhyan
Veteran Member
You and you alone need to determine that.
How do you compare the whole to a part of that whole, is this a reasonable comparison?
You keep talking about the possibility that the whole of existence could be bad, poor, or whatever. If you would expect a rational response, then you must explain first how any such judgement on the whole can be taken seriously as an absolute truth? IOW, who is it that could really know if the whole universe was 'poor', and to what 'richness' is it relative to?
Far be for me to advise another what they should do, you have all the resources within to do that. However it is evident IMHO, that many people do not yet fully know what they really are.
joea
Oshoyoi
Asking a question with a question won't help; You know, sometimes when a person has too much time on his hands, too much knowledge, borrowed knowledge, borrowed thinking, he fails to see the very nature of things...all of these winch you ask gratifies the ego and will continue to be so. How about try and be with the wise?
Smoke
Done here.
Everything, because they experience their Oneness with everything.
Human perfection of having sound mind and body does not mean no choices allowed. Satan lied to Eve. Eve apparently did not originate the idea of eating from God's tree. Love of God keeps us from wanting to disobey God.
Eve chose to disobey and Adam chose to follow Eve over God.
Adam was offered everlasting life if obedient.
Adam chose disobedience.
Disobedience leads to death.
Adam disobeyed and he died.
If Adam had remained obedient Adam would still be alive today.
We, on the other hand, having 'human imperfection' sin by mistake.
That is why Jesus ransom sacrifice covers us not Adam and Eve.
Jesus unlocks the way for us to gain the same everlasting life offered originally to Adam. Once Jesus starts his 1000-year reign over earth,
then humankind can have the prospect of gaining everlasting life in perfection either in heaven or right here on a paradisaic earth starting with the righteous people of Matthew 25v32; Rev 22v2
InvestigateTruth
Veteran Member
"As the divine bounties are endless, so human perfections are endless....But for every being there is a point which it cannot overpass—that is to say, he who is in the condition of servitude, however far he may progress in gaining limitless perfections, will never reach the condition of Deity. It is the same with the other beings. A mineral, however far it may progress in the mineral kingdom, cannot gain the vegetable power...So this silver mineral cannot gain hearing or sight; it can only improve in its own condition and become a perfect mineral, but it cannot acquire the power of growth, or the power of sensation, or attain to life; it can only progress in its own condition...It is true that coal could become a diamond, but both are in the
mineral condition, and their component elements are the same.
For example, Peter cannot become Christ. All that he can do is, in the condition of servitude, to attain endless perfections; for every existing reality is capable of making progress...Man is in the highest degree of materiality, and at the beginning of spirituality-that is to say, he is the end of imperfection and the beginning of perfection...He has the animal side as well as the angelic side, and the aim of an educator is to so train human souls that their angelic aspect may overcome their animal side....If he comes under the shadow of the True Educator and is rightly trained, he becomes the essence of essences, the light of lights, the spirit of spirits; he becomes the center of the divine appearances, the source of spiritual qualities, the rising-place of heavenly lights, and the receptacle of divine inspirations. If he is deprived of this education, he becomes the manifestation of satanic qualities, the sum of animal vices, and the source of all dark conditions. The reason of the mission of the Prophets is to educate men... " Some Answered Questions - AbdulBaha
mineral condition, and their component elements are the same.
For example, Peter cannot become Christ. All that he can do is, in the condition of servitude, to attain endless perfections; for every existing reality is capable of making progress...Man is in the highest degree of materiality, and at the beginning of spirituality-that is to say, he is the end of imperfection and the beginning of perfection...He has the animal side as well as the angelic side, and the aim of an educator is to so train human souls that their angelic aspect may overcome their animal side....If he comes under the shadow of the True Educator and is rightly trained, he becomes the essence of essences, the light of lights, the spirit of spirits; he becomes the center of the divine appearances, the source of spiritual qualities, the rising-place of heavenly lights, and the receptacle of divine inspirations. If he is deprived of this education, he becomes the manifestation of satanic qualities, the sum of animal vices, and the source of all dark conditions. The reason of the mission of the Prophets is to educate men... " Some Answered Questions - AbdulBaha
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Do you feel bored now?
Do you want to pick your day of death?
Don't healthy people want to continue living?
Can't we all always continue to learn and add to our fund of knowledge?
Do people get bored with being with ones they dearly love, or don't we look forward to the next time we can spend and be with that person?
Caladan
Agnostic Pantheist
English man. do you speak it?
joea
Oshoyoi
Stick to the point....
Caladan
Agnostic Pantheist
I would love to... but which point?Stick to the point....
honestly maybe you and URAVIP2ME have a common lingo the rest of us simply cannot understand. interesting!
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If at creation Adam was a serial killer, would he have been considered humanly perfect being of sound mind and body?
How is a person abusing or torturing another being a perfect person of sound mind and body?
Can't one be 'less' by ignoring one's conscience to the point that it becomes calloused like flesh seared by a hot branding iron to the point that one's conscience is so hardened that it no longer has feelings?
The more I think about it, the more it seems that it's easier to describe what a perfect being isn't than what it would be. We just have a lot more experience with imperfection than we do with perfection.