What is a soul/spirit?

[Etritonakin]

Uh, I think you're making this up as you go along, there is nothing that exists whatsoever that backs up this statement.:sleep:

I do have quite the imagination, but I can't take credit for this one. (I do have a "nerf car" concept I'm working on, though. People would be trying to get into accidents -hehehehehehe)

I understand that because you haven't had a gander at God's "spirit hard drive", so to speak, you don't believe it exists -but you have to admit it is theoretically possible -and a totally sweet concept.

Even sci-fi writers have contemplated similar things.

We ourselves are examples of the fact that our "selves" can be stored within something -and man has contemplated saving his dead body until we figure out how to keep it alive indefinitely -and downloading himself into another body altogether -it's just that God thought of it all first.

 

[Cosmos]

Sorry, but I simply don't see how.



Did he? Where?



Why, of course it is a religion. It does not at all follow that it must involve belief in Souls or in Gods. For one thing, because both concepts are vague to the point of barely having any meaning at all.

Still, it remains to be proven that I'm not correctly understanding this particular point of my religion.

(Did you expect me to claim that "it is a philosophy, not a religion"? I never liked that kind of wordplay, myself. It isn't very meaningful, nor quite honest.)

In fact, I wonder how you can have so much certainty about what exactly I believe or not. Just because I'm an atheist? It doesn't really mean anything except that I don't believe in God - which is one of the most minor things that I can conceive of. It is far less meaningful than, say, whether I oppose the death penalty or whatever I happen to think about adoption criteria.

Friend, my assertion comes directly through the Teachings of the Buddha, which are His gospel. What you do not understand is what you only wish to read into... please go through the Dharmic threads and find my posts or through my channel. Also, the Buddha acknowledged the Supreme, the One Essence, and even spoke of Brahma in two aspects--one being the idolized Brahma He [Buddha] used as an allegory to describe the Divine Energy or Power as a condition or state that can be achieved here and now in this very life (i.e. brahma-loka) and the "Unseen Brahma" representing our connection with the Divine. Consider... you still dodged the very sutta I narrated to begin with where the Buddha Gautama uses "Atman" to emphasize the True Self. :slap:

 

[LuisDantas]

Cosmos... you're wrong. That is all there is to it.

 

[Cosmos]

You're a dualistic agnostic/atheist Buddhist/non-theist believer! :areyoucra

No I am just joking!

(En)Lighten up! :slap:

 

[LuisDantas]

I'm quite simply someone who sees no need to believe in a literal atman, nor to reject the Buddhadhamma - which explicitly proposes Anatta, btw - while doing so.

 

[logician]

I do have quite the imagination, but I can't take credit for this one. (I do have a "nerf car" concept I'm working on, though. People would be trying to get into accidents -hehehehehehe)

I understand that because you haven't had a gander at God's "spirit hard drive", so to speak, you don't believe it exists -but you have to admit it is theoretically possible -and a totally sweet concept.

Even sci-fi writers have contemplated similar things.

We ourselves are examples of the fact that our "selves" can be stored within something -and man has contemplated saving his dead body until we figure out how to keep it alive indefinitely -and downloading himself into another body altogether -it's just that God thought of it all first.

'
You're wrong on all counts, I was a Xian for years, finally saw the light and became an atheist, and yes the poster was making it up as he/she posted.

 

[Cosmos]

It is our 'sense' (or preconceptions) of self that is illusory and this is absolutely the truth, friend. Rather than debate in semantics, because as English speakers we will quickly find ourselves unhealthily heading down that road without fully comprehending the terminologies employed in the language of the Buddha. My only suggestion is that Buddhists and Hindus re-read their scriptures with a fresh new eye bathed in spiritual understanding without reliance on corporeal realities or conceptuals and see that 'Netti Netti' is negation in affirmation, as should be well known, and see that the Buddha taught that there is a transcendental reality within us and that we are all connected to, and it transcends our "I" as He [Buddha] expanded the language of the Brahmanic Hindus to greater heights in the Horizon of Glory. It is the Supreme Self we should be committed in understanding, which is beyond our bodies or minds comprehension but as we too are organisms it develops, matures, and gains capacities with our exertions.

 

[look3467]

The question of the soul has to be answered in light of its creator.
Whether the creator was/is/will be, known to us by whatever means of revelation there is, which, is at the core of what the soul consists of.

We can have many different views on what the soul is, yet none, can be set in concrete as the correct answer.

So, we can say then that defining what the soul is, is relative to what beliefs we hold.

In my view I see the creator creating the first soul of which in its self becomes a pro-creator of same, which goes for all creatures as well.

The difference between what is animal and human is the ability to reason, to think and make judgments.

That ability defines us, and one in which defines us, to a point, as gods of our own souls.

That point is beyond our control and rests solely in the hands of the creator, by whatever name you happen to known Him by, if such a name defines for you a creator.

There is however, a structure in place that none of us can discard, and that is in the following:

• We’re born into the flesh. (introduction)
• By doing so we are lower then angels (Fallen)
• By reason of intelligence, the ability to reason, we are judged according to our works (Judgment)
• The penalty for 1,2 and 3 above is death, the final answer.

Those for things no one can escape!

Believe what you will, concerning the soul, the answer is still death.

Now: Enter Hope:

Hope is in the message of death being annulled!

No, not physical death, for that we all share in, but spiritual death is where the message of hope is.

That message is that the creator of the first soul, stems life, and its spiritual offspring shall live for ever; never to die again.

So, how do we access that soul of which life stems from, being that we are already born into this one that is already condemned to death?

Very simple! By rebirth!

If that is a hard thing to understand, I wouldn’t worry to much, except for the fact that if we did understand it now, we would enjoy the fruits of that life yet while in the flesh.

Something to ponder about.

Blessings, AJ

 

[Etritonakin]

'
You're wrong on all counts, I was a Xian for years, finally saw the light and became an atheist, and yes the poster was making it up as he/she posted.

Thought your post was in response to mine -got confused -sorry, mate!

Please disregard.

Nope -just checked again -it was in response to mine. I did not make that up -it is in the bible -I just made an analogy likening God's ability to do so -as described in the bible -to a modern device.

I'm not trying to make you believe it.

 

[crocusj]

The question of the soul has to be answered in light of its creator.
Whether the creator was/is/will be, known to us by whatever means of revelation there is, which, is at the core of what the soul consists of.

We can have many different views on what the soul is, yet none, can be set in concrete as the correct answer.

So, we can say then that defining what the soul is, is relative to what beliefs we hold.

In my view I see the creator creating the first soul of which in its self becomes a pro-creator of same, which goes for all creatures as well.

The difference between what is animal and human is the ability to reason, to think and make judgments.

That ability defines us, and one in which defines us, to a point, as gods of our own souls.

That point is beyond our control and rests solely in the hands of the creator, by whatever name you happen to known Him by, if such a name defines for you a creator.

There is however, a structure in place that none of us can discard, and that is in the following:

• We’re born into the flesh. (introduction)
• By doing so we are lower then angels (Fallen)
• By reason of intelligence, the ability to reason, we are judged according to our works (Judgment)
• The penalty for 1,2 and 3 above is death, the final answer.

Those for things no one can escape!

Believe what you will, concerning the soul, the answer is still death.

Now: Enter Hope:

Hope is in the message of death being annulled!

No, not physical death, for that we all share in, but spiritual death is where the message of hope is.

That message is that the creator of the first soul, stems life, and its spiritual offspring shall live for ever; never to die again.

So, how do we access that soul of which life stems from, being that we are already born into this one that is already condemned to death?

Very simple! By rebirth!

If that is a hard thing to understand, I wouldn’t worry to much, except for the fact that if we did understand it now, we would enjoy the fruits of that life yet while in the flesh.

Something to ponder about.

Blessings, AJ

So, what your saying is that we are all afraid of dying but there might be a way out if we have a soul. You,re right that this is a human trait...animals do not appear to bother themselves much with this idea and I'm with them on this one and will endeavour to enjoy the fruits of this life because it's the only one I'll get and while I may fear death I knew nothing of it before I was born and I will know nothing of it after I am gone

 

[look3467]

So, what your saying is that we are all afraid of dying but there might be a way out if we have a soul. You,re right that this is a human trait...animals do not appear to bother themselves much with this idea and I'm with them on this one and will endeavour to enjoy the fruits of this life because it's the only one I'll get and while I may fear death I knew nothing of it before I was born and I will know nothing of it after I am gone

The fear of natural death is common to all, and unless you know and believe what the outcome is, after you die then the sting of death is taken away.

1Co 15:55 O death, where is thy sting? O grave, where is thy victory?

Blessings, AJ

 

[URAVIP2ME]

So, what your saying is that we are all afraid of dying but there might be a way out if we have a soul. You,re right that this is a human trait...animals do not appear to bother themselves much with this idea and I'm with them on this one and will endeavour to enjoy the fruits of this life because it's the only one I'll get and while I may fear death I knew nothing of it before I was born and I will know nothing of it after I am gone

However, according to Scripture we do Not have a soul.
We are a soul or person.
Genesis [2v7] is clear that Adam 'became' a living soul.
Adam was created lifeless. After receiving the breath of life then Adam became a living soul or person. From dust to dust.

The Bible knows plenty of death:
Jesus knew death was like being in a state of deep sleep. {Jn 11vs11-14]
The Psalmist knew death was like deep sleep. [ Ps.6v5;13v3;115v17;146v4]
Daniel knew death was like sleeping. [Daniel 12v2,13]
Solomon knew death was like unconscious sleep. [ Ecclesiastes 9v5]

The only way you will know nothing after you are gone to death's sleep is if you have committed the unforgivable sin of Matt 12v32; Heb 6vs4-6 otherwise, [Romans 6v7] you will awaken on resurrection morning or Christ's millennial-long day to life. -Acts 24v15.

 

[URAVIP2ME]

The fear of natural death is common to all, and unless you know and believe what the outcome is, after you die then the sting of death is taken away.
1Co 15:55 O death, where is thy sting? O grave, where is thy victory?
Blessings, AJ

The above verse is similar to what Isaiah taught us [25v8] that God will swallow up death in victory........
and as Paul wrote at 1st Cor 15v26 that our last enemy 'death' will be brought to nothing.

So as recorded death is an enemy, but the Bible's promise of a resurrection [Acts 24v15] is that there will be a resurrection from death on resurrection morning [Daniel 12v2,13], or Jesus millennial-long day of reigning over earth, when the dead in God's hands will awaken from death's deep sleep [John 11vs11-14] with the prospect of everlasting life in view when there will be no tears, crying, or outcry from pain [Rev 21v4,5] because as Paul also wrote: O death where is thy sting? O grave, where is thy victory?

 

[look3467]

The above verse is similar to what Isaiah taught us [25v8] that God will swallow up death in victory........
and as Paul wrote at 1st Cor 15v26 that our last enemy 'death' will be brought to nothing.

So as recorded death is an enemy, but the Bible's promise of a resurrection [Acts 24v15] is that there will be a resurrection from death on resurrection morning [Daniel 12v2,13], or Jesus millennial-long day of reigning over earth, when the dead in God's hands will awaken from death's deep sleep [John 11vs11-14] with the prospect of everlasting life in view when there will be no tears, crying, or outcry from pain [Rev 21v4,5] because as Paul also wrote: O death where is thy sting? O grave, where is thy victory?

If I were to say to you that I were God, and as a man, and that I would pay the price for all mankind, do you suppose I would find pardon or, would I have to be unpardonable in order to achieve the stated goal?

If Jesus were pardoned, then what use would His sacrifice on the cross be?

Can you see the "unpardonable sin" here?

Blessings, AJ

 

[URAVIP2ME]

If I were to say to you that I were God, and as a man, and that I would pay the price for all mankind, do you suppose I would find pardon or, would I have to be unpardonable in order to achieve the stated goal?
If Jesus were pardoned, then what use would His sacrifice on the cross be?
Can you see the "unpardonable sin" here?
Blessings, AJ

Jesus was sinless. Jesus paid the price for our, not his, sins. Jesus had No sins.

To be pardoned would be like a governor giving a pardon to a person that might not be innocent but a pardon would mean the charges no longer stick.
That is why Romans [6v7] says the dead are freed or acquitted from sin.
The sin charges no longer stick. So except for those of Matthew 12v32; Hebrews 6vs4-6 the dead will be resurrected as Acts [24v15] says both the just and unjust [righteous/ unrighteous], but the willfully wicked will be destroyed or annihilated.
Hebrews 10v26; Psalm 92v7- No more sacrifice for sins....

As Matthew [20v28] wrote Jesus ransom covers 'many' Not all because all will not accept to live by his teachings.

 

[Etritonakin]

However, according to Scripture we do Not have a soul.
We are a soul or person.
Genesis [2v7] is clear that Adam 'became' a living soul.
Adam was created lifeless. After receiving the breath of life then Adam became a living soul or person. From dust to dust.

The Bible knows plenty of death:
Jesus knew death was like being in a state of deep sleep. {Jn 11vs11-14]
The Psalmist knew death was like deep sleep. [ Ps.6v5;13v3;115v17;146v4]
Daniel knew death was like sleeping. [Daniel 12v2,13]
Solomon knew death was like unconscious sleep. [ Ecclesiastes 9v5]

The only way you will know nothing after you are gone to death's sleep is if you have committed the unforgivable sin of Matt 12v32; Heb 6vs4-6 otherwise, [Romans 6v7] you will awaken on resurrection morning or Christ's millennial-long day to life. -Acts 24v15.

Scripture says we ARE a soul -but HAVE a spirit -which is what most mean when they say "soul" -except that our spirit is not immortal, as some believe the "soul" to be -it can be destroyed -but it can also be put into another body later. It returns to God when we die -but is not aware (is "asleep") until resurrected. The spirit in man is not the holy spirit -not the spirit of God -that's another subject.

Ecc 12:7 Then shall the dust return to the earth as it was: and the spirit shall return unto God who gave it.

Job 32:8 But there is a spirit in man: and the inspiration of the Almighty giveth them understanding.

Luk 23:46 And when Jesus had cried with a loud voice, he said, Father, into thy hands I commend my spirit: and having said thus, he gave up the ghost.

 

[Cosmos]

The spirit-soul dynamic is intellectually healthy to discern an observable distinction. Soul, I would say, is the essence of individuality or the personality (or persona) of an individual. Spirit is the essence of being itself--for example, what separates each kingdom of creation respectively: mineral kingdom, vegetable kingdom, animal kingdom, human kingdom. Our auras (i.e. personas) have many levels or phases associated with it and this is why we have the animal-self or nature or lower self and the spiritual nature or aspect, or the Higher Self (True Self). Being directly connected with consciousness in association it is evident that we must perfect and make manifest the most transcendent and exalted aspects of our selves or nature so that we exhibit angelic qualities and attributes, attaining 'Christ-consciousness' or at-onement with the Manifestation of God. I will have to say that spirit is assuredly eternal, but the soul can become handicapped, experiencing spiritual death which is the "sleep" (more akin to a comatose state) Etritonakin. So, it is proper even from a Biblical perspective to consider death attributable to the individual soul and not the essence of man which is progressive and eternal, though, again, this does not mean we shall experience the joy and bliss inherent in this reality as--as you say Etritonakin--we will be dormant or handicap in a 'body' that is not adequately developed for the Spirit World. Think of it this way: A rock has an essence or 'spirit' and yet in Nature it exhibits the least characteristics (i.e. qualities and attributes) of growth, volition, and consciousness, so we can see that this is a manifestation of inert souls who never watered themselves with the Love of God or basked in the wisdom of the Sun of Truth (i.e. Manifestation of God).

 

[look3467]

Jesus was sinless. Jesus paid the price for our, not his, sins. Jesus had No sins.

Absolutely!

To be pardoned would be like a governor giving a pardon to a person that might not be innocent but a pardon would mean the charges no longer stick.

Jesus at the garden accepted the cup making Him guilty of the sins of the world, as if He were the first Adam, and the price the penalty is His only as the second Adam, thus delivering humanity from the guilt of the first.

To pardon Jesus for the guilt placed on Him would be to negate the forgiveness of the sin of the first Adam.

The unpardonable sin then is, that Jesus must not be pardoned (could not be pardoned) in order that He would go to hell, and there visit them that were there awaiting their visitation.

JOB 7:21 And why dost thou not pardon my transgression, and take away mine iniquity? for now shall I sleep in the dust; and thou shalt seek me in the morning, but I shall not be.

God Can Not Pardon Sin. The price has to be paid. Jesus Knew God Said: If He Found One That He Would Pardon. Jesus With The Sin Of The World Has The Unpardonable Sin. For Jesus Must Die For Sin.

Here Is The Pardon Seen That Jesus Was Attempting To Get, But Never Obtained Because It Was Not What God Wanted:

JER 5:1 Run ye to and fro through the streets of Jerusalem, and see now, and know, and seek in the broad places thereof, if ye can find a man, if there be any that executeth judgment, that seeketh the truth; and I will pardon it.

The Day Of The Cross Jesus Finds His One Man. A Thief Hanging On The Cross Next To Him, Stands Up For Him. Jesus Believes He Has Found That Which Was Needed So He Tells Him "Today Thou Shall Be With Me In Paradise" Believing God Would Pardon Sin.
Here Is The Prophecy For The Good Thief. Note In The Verse "I Have Found A Ransom" For Jesus Is Thinking Of The Pardon:

JOB 33:22 Yea, his soul draweth near unto the grave, and his life to the destroyers.
Here They Are On The Cross.

JOB 33:23 If there be a messenger with him, an interpreter, one among a thousand, to shew unto man his uprightness:

Here Is The Good Thief Prophecy.

JOB 33:24 Then he is gracious unto him, and saith, Deliver him from going down to the pit: I have found a ransom.

Today Thou Shall Be With Me In Paradise= Deliver Him From Going Down To The Pit. Jesus Believes He Has The Pardon So He Believes He Has Found A Ransom For His Life.

But A Ransom For Jesus Is Not What God Wants As This Verse Shows:

PSA 49:7 None of them can by any means redeem his brother, nor give to God a ransom for him:

PSA 49:8 (For the redemption of their soul is precious, and it ceaseth for ever
Note: "Their" Is Pulral, But The Word "Soul" Is Singular. All Mankind In The Body Of Christ. "Ceaseth For Ever" = Jesus Dies Once For All And It Is Finished.

The Good Thief First Stood Up For Jesus, But Later He Reviled Him Also:

MAT 27:44 The thieves also, which were crucified with him, cast the same in his teeth.

MAR 15:32 Let Christ the King of Israel descend now from the cross, that we may see and believe. And they that were crucified with him reviled him.

PSA 142:4 I looked on my right hand, and beheld, but there was no man that would know me: refuge failed me; no man cared for my soul.

Jesus Has The Unpardonable Sin. He Must Die For Sin. There Can Be No Pardon. Today Thou Shall Be With Me In Paradise Will Not Be Coming.

Hell Awaits Jesus.

There….in hell…Jesus receives His kingdom:

Similitude For Jesus Going Into Hell To Take Those The Father Has Given Him.

ZEC 9:11 As for thee also, by the blood of thy covenant I have sent forth thy prisoners out of the pit wherein is no water.

Jesus And All Those In Hell Are Set Free On The Third Day.

HOS 6:2 After two days will he revive us: in the third day he will raise us up, and we shall live in his sight.

Blessings, AJ

 

[logician]

Jesus was sinless. Jesus paid the price for our, not his, sins. Jesus had No sins.

To be pardoned would be like a governor giving a pardon to a person that might not be innocent but a pardon would mean the charges no longer stick.
That is why Romans [6v7] says the dead are freed or acquitted from sin.
The sin charges no longer stick. So except for those of Matthew 12v32; Hebrews 6vs4-6 the dead will be resurrected as Acts [24v15] says both the just and unjust [righteous/ unrighteous], but the willfully wicked will be destroyed or annihilated.
Hebrews 10v26; Psalm 92v7- No more sacrifice for sins....

As Matthew [20v28] wrote Jesus ransom covers 'many' Not all because all will not accept to live by his teachings.

The supposed Jesus did not pay the price for my "sins" because "sin" doesn't exist, i.e. it is a trangression against a non-existent god.:sleep:

 

[look3467]

The supposed Jesus did not pay the price for my "sins" because "sin" doesn't exist, i.e. it is a trangression against a non-existent god.:sleep:

Sin is a transgression whether to God or man. So sin does exist!
If you don't think you can sin against the government, try not paying your taxes and see if there is not a penalty for your sin.

Now, as for the sin against God, is two fold.
1. You and I had no choice in being born, since it was our parents choice.
By the same token it was not our choice that we should have been separated from God due to the ability to reason.

It is to that, that Jesus paid the price for. Your inability to redeem yourself.

God redeems period.

Now, as for your own transgressions, you shall pay the consequences and no body else, and to that, is your responsibility.

What is natural belongs to the natural and what is spiritual, belongs to the spiritual.

Blessings, AJ