What is a Soul?

[blackout]

Soul is that part of you that Sings the Blues.

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

The most compelling argument for a soul, or some kind of entity which can leave the body, comes from motor vehicle accident victims. There are three telling premises which come from a traumatic event like a motor vehicle accident, 1) Time slows appears to happen in slow motion,

This is a physiological response. Why do you think it implies a soul?

2) An out of body experience

This is a physiological effect. Again, why do you think this implies a soul?

and, 3) Clairvoyance and or telepathy.

This just isn't real.

Or rather, if people feel anything like this, it's not actual telepathy.

 

[logician]

Revelation 5:9,10 definitely shows resurrected Christians chosen by Christ being in heaven working with Jesus.
They have two jobs to do: Kingly or a royal job of taking care of governmental needs of those alive on earth. Priestly or a religious job of taking care of spiritual needs of those living on earth.

Those righteous of Matthew 25:32,37 remain alive on earth. Those already dead in the dust of the ground as Daniel 12:2,13 indicates will be subjects of God's kingdom or royal government right here on earth to be part of the humble meek to inherit the earth as Jesus promised. -Psalm 37:11,29.

This still doesn't explain he billion or so Xians that believe you go directly to heaven when you die.

 

[MSizer]

...
The most compelling argument for a soul, or some kind of entity which can leave the body, comes from motor vehicle accident victims. There are three telling premises which come from a traumatic event like a motor vehicle accident, 1) Time slows appears to happen in slow motion, 2) An out of body experience and, 3) Clairvoyance and or telepathy.

One of the most bugging questions in science is where does coincidence leave off and reality take over. How many motor vehicle accident victims have to report similar experiences before their experience is considered valid.

Of the three reported experiences, the most telling is that time slows down and appears to happen in slow motion. Over half of the people I have personally interviewed down this line have reported this experience. Further investigation required.

The next is the telepathic/clairvoyance perspective, approximately one third of the victims have reported that they seen the accident happen before it actually happened, and a slightly smaller percentage have reported that they had touched the presence of a loved one, who wasn't involved in the accident, and in many cases this same presence of being was also felt and observed by the loved one not involved in the accident. Further investigation required.

The last, but by no means least, and by far fewer percentage are those who have reported a direct out of body experience....

Seriously, you think those are evidence for a soul? Then I declare that dreams are evidence for 2nd lives we all have, and we simply crossover from one to the other during sleep. When you disprove my second life theory based on dreams, I'll grant you the soul theory based on psychological phenomenon.

 

[Kilgore Trout]

What is a Soul?

I don't know, but it's one of those concepts like god - ask 100 people what it is, and you'll get a hundred different answers. Of course, this often tends to be the case for things that are imaginary.

 

[johnhanks]

Life is the education of God's children.The sum of all knowledge and wisdom can not be learned in a single physical lifetime.Each life brings new growth and learning.

Doubly odd, then, that by this model we start each life completely ignorant of the growth and learning acquired last time round, and have to start all over. Renders it all rather pointless, don't you think?

 

[URAVIP2ME]

This still doesn't explain he billion or so Xians that believe you go directly to heaven when you die.

If you trace mankind's religious tree back to its roots we end up back in ancient Babylon. The idea of a deathless soul can be traced back to there and not Scripture.

Scripture plainly states Adam became a living soul at Gen 2:7.
Please notice Adam was not alive until after he received the breath of life.
After Adam started to breathe then Adam became a living soul or life as a soul. 'Became' does not mean came to have, or came to possess something outside of the body, but was the whole complete person or life as a person.

What happened when the people migrated from the tower of Babel?
Didn't they take with them their 'new' language, or new mother tongue, and along with that they took their 'old' pagan religious ideas such as pagan soul immortality. They spread that pagan belief world wide into a greater religious Babylon or Babylon the Great.

Acts 20:29,30; Matt 24:24 informs us that after the first century ended that wolves in sheep's clothing would enter in among the flock to have followers after their own agenda.

Jesus illustration of the Wheat and Weeds [tares] helps us also to see that genuine Christians would grow together over the centuries with the false weed-like Christians, or Christian mostly in name only until the harvest time or our day of separation. -Matt 13:47-49; 25:32.

So from those false Christians in wolf clothing developed Christendom, or a form of so-called Christianity that follows tradition, customs, teachings outside of Scripture. -Mark 7:7,13.

Please notice 2 Thess 2:1-8. While the apostles were still alive they acted as a restraint against false teachings. After their deaths different sects developed. So a clergy/laity class developed that is not found in Scripture.
2 Thess is pointing to the rise of the clergy class describing them as the man of sin; or son of destruction [perdition] .

Verse 4 shows the clergy sit in the temple [church] or House of Worship showing himself to be God when he is really anti-God. Isn't it the clergy class that have mislead the billions by promoting soul immortality, burning after death, ignoring immorality, etc.

Hasn't the world's religions run afoul playing false to Scripture?
The clergy, instead of listening to the words that came out of Jesus mouth [Matt 26:52; Rev 13:10] they have put words in his mouth, so to speak, in order to have the flock follow their own agenda often political. Isn't that why we see the pulpit often used as a recruiting station in order for parent to sacrifice their children, not in Christ's footsteps, but sacrifice them on the alter of war?

Jesus stressed that 'few' would be genuine followers as Matthew chapter 7 shows. Few were genuine worshipers of God in Noah's day, and Jesus said our day would be like Noah's at Matt 24:37. Not that only 8 would be saved but meaning the majority would not repent. -Psalm 92:7.

What would be the point of having a resurrection for the sleeping dead if they were already alive in the spirit realm? The soul that sins dies.[Ezekiel 18:4,20]
Ignoring such Scripture does not make the Bible wrong, but makes what the religious leaders teach as wrong.
2nd Tim 4:3 shows the majority of people want religious teachers just to have their 'ears tickled', so to speak, so that the clergy will say what they want to hear.
That is why 2 Tim 3:1-5,13 describes our day as the last days of badness on earth because the majority fit the attitudes and behavior mentioned there having a selfish distorted form of love, and not the genuine Christ-like love of 1 Cor 13:4-6; John 13:34,35.

 

[URAVIP2ME]

What is a Soul?
I don't know, but it's one of those concepts like god - ask 100 people what it is, and you'll get a hundred different answers. Of course, this often tends to be the case for things that are imaginary.

Absolutely many different answers because the clergy class teaches many different babbling things about it.

There is no question what the Bible really teaches:
Acts 3:23 plainly says the soul can be destroyed.
James 5:20 concludes with saving a soul from death.
According to Ezekiel 18:4,20 the soul that sins dies.
What is the condition of the the dead soul according to Ecclesiastes 9:5 but that the dead know nothing.
The Psalmist believed the dead sleep the sleep of death.
Psalm 6:5; 13:3; 115:17; 146:4.
That is why Jesus also likened death to sleep at John 11:11-14.

Since Jesus was God's Son sent to earth he ought to know and Jesus did not contradict Scripture. Jesus agreed with it. Jesus believed the Genesis account.
No where does it say Adam came to posses a soul. Rather Genesis states that after Adam started to breathe then Adam 'became' a living soul.
At death Adam had no more breath and Adam became a dead soul.

If we could stop sinning we would not die. Since we can't we die.
Also, we can not resurrect oneself or another that is why we need Jesus to do that for us and he will during his peaceful 1000-year rule over earth.
Until then, like the prophet Daniel believed, those dead are asleep in the dust of the ground.
Daniel 12:2,13.

 

[logician]

If you trace mankind's religious tree back to its roots we end up back in ancient Babylon. The idea of a deathless soul can be traced back to there and not Scripture.

Scripture plainly states Adam became a living soul at Gen 2:7.
Please notice Adam was not alive until after he received the breath of life.
After Adam started to breathe then Adam became a living soul or life as a soul. 'Became' does not mean came to have, or came to possess something outside of the body, but was the whole complete person or life as a person.

What happened when the people migrated from the tower of Babel?
Didn't they take with them their 'new' language, or new mother tongue, and along with that they took their 'old' pagan religious ideas such as pagan soul immortality. They spread that pagan belief world wide into a greater religious Babylon or Babylon the Great.

Acts 20:29,30; Matt 24:24 informs us that after the first century ended that wolves in sheep's clothing would enter in among the flock to have followers after their own agenda.

Jesus illustration of the Wheat and Weeds [tares] helps us also to see that genuine Christians would grow together over the centuries with the false weed-like Christians, or Christian mostly in name only until the harvest time or our day of separation. -Matt 13:47-49; 25:32.

So from those false Christians in wolf clothing developed Christendom, or a form of so-called Christianity that follows tradition, customs, teachings outside of Scripture. -Mark 7:7,13.

Please notice 2 Thess 2:1-8. While the apostles were still alive they acted as a restraint against false teachings. After their deaths different sects developed. So a clergy/laity class developed that is not found in Scripture.
2 Thess is pointing to the rise of the clergy class describing them as the man of sin; or son of destruction [perdition] .

Verse 4 shows the clergy sit in the temple [church] or House of Worship showing himself to be God when he is really anti-God. Isn't it the clergy class that have mislead the billions by promoting soul immortality, burning after death, ignoring immorality, etc.

Hasn't the world's religions run afoul playing false to Scripture?
The clergy, instead of listening to the words that came out of Jesus mouth [Matt 26:52; Rev 13:10] they have put words in his mouth, so to speak, in order to have the flock follow their own agenda often political. Isn't that why we see the pulpit often used as a recruiting station in order for parent to sacrifice their children, not in Christ's footsteps, but sacrifice them on the alter of war?

Jesus stressed that 'few' would be genuine followers as Matthew chapter 7 shows. Few were genuine worshipers of God in Noah's day, and Jesus said our day would be like Noah's at Matt 24:37. Not that only 8 would be saved but meaning the majority would not repent. -Psalm 92:7.

What would be the point of having a resurrection for the sleeping dead if they were already alive in the spirit realm? The soul that sins dies.[Ezekiel 18:4,20]
Ignoring such Scripture does not make the Bible wrong, but makes what the religious leaders teach as wrong.
2nd Tim 4:3 shows the majority of people want religious teachers just to have their 'ears tickled', so to speak, so that the clergy will say what they want to hear.
That is why 2 Tim 3:1-5,13 describes our day as the last days of badness on earth because the majority fit the attitudes and behavior mentioned there having a selfish distorted form of love, and not the genuine Christ-like love of 1 Cor 13:4-6; John 13:34,35.

This still doesn't explain he billion or so Xians that believe you go directly to heaven when you die.

 

[URAVIP2ME]

This still doesn't explain he billion or so Xians that believe you go directly to heaven when you die.

Doesn't 2nd Tim 4:3 explain that the ^many^ of Matthew chapter 7 would want religious teachers just to have their 'ears tickled' so to speak, to have teachers say what they want to hear. The clergy tells them they go directly to heaven.
But what does the Bible really teach? They apply 'firstfruits' of 1st Cor 15:20,23 to all instead of showing there is difference in the resurrected firstfruits of Rev 20:6 being the little flock of Luke 12:32, and not the other sheep of John 10:16.

Also Compare 2nd Tim 2:18 to Acts 24:15.

 

[Wannabe Yogi]

Biology and paleontolgy and various other disciplines exposed how the creation story was just a myth to explain what people had no better explanation for,

This seems like an 19th century interpretation of mythology. Way back then a myth was seen as a primitive counterpart of modern science.

Today many scholars see Mythology as reflect patterns in the mind. Both Jung and Joseph Campbell believed that insights about the human psychology, was gained from reading about myths.

and neurology will do the same to the concept of the soul.

I have a very Orthodox Hindu view of he soul (Advaita Vedanta)

When the consciousness that is endemic to our very universe. becomes identified with a body this is called the soul or in Sanskrit the atman.

 

[Wannabe Yogi]

What is a Soul?

I don't know, but it's one of those concepts like god - ask 100 people what it is, and you'll get a hundred different answers.

Part of the reason.English is a very difficult language to communicate philosophical concepts. Sanskrit is much more exact in it's use in this area.

 

[footprints]

This is a physiological response. Why do you think it implies a soul?

As we do not know what a soul per se is, all aspects of it must be investigated. Can the consciousness exist outside of the human body, and the direct environment around it. The speed at which time travels is a personal experience, does it exist, does it really happen, does time travel in slow motion, or, is it a hallucination? The implications this has on time and light, opens up many doors of possible research.

And if this personal experience is real, then it gives probability to other personal experiences.

This is a physiological effect. Again, why do you think this implies a soul?

You really should stop trying to read minds. I do not think this implies a soul at all. What I believe is, it is a phenomena which needs further investigation. What it implies, if it is real, is that he consciousness can exist outside of the immediate environment around the physical body. Baby steps, one step at a time, jump to far and too quick, you can end up with false conclusions based all on the individuals mind.

This just isn't real.

Your personal experience is as valid to you as another persons personal experience is valid to them. What do you suggest, we just accept your personal experiences and deny the personal experiences of everybody else?

Or rather, if people feel anything like this, it's not actual telepathy.

Your perception could be correct, then again it could be totally wrong. Research and investigation will be the key to this understanding.

 

[footprints]

Seriously, you think those are evidence for a soul? Then I declare that dreams are evidence for 2nd lives we all have, and we simply crossover from one to the other during sleep. When you disprove my second life theory based on dreams, I'll grant you the soul theory based on psychological phenomenon.

Dreams are an extension to the conscious mind. The brain doesn't stop because we are asleep. The only difference being, without being awake, we cannot control our conscious thought, and we will relate and associate to everything which our mind can possibly relate and associate to. Sleep threapy isn't a new science.

As my knowledge of a soul is as limited as yours, or anybody else on the planet, I seriously doubt that I can offer any evidence to a soul. We would first have to have an accurate definition, as to what a soul was, and evidence to suggest its probablity. All I have offered suggests, is that the brain may be capable of much more than we know and accept, and deserves further investigation. Which of course, will be investigated, with or without your acceptance or blessing.

The downside of this pertaining to your belief, if the consciousness can exist away from the human body, yet still be attached to it, it would give probability to some suggested definitions to what a soul is, and cause for more investigation.

 

[Beyondo]

As we do not know what a soul per se is, all aspects of it must be investigated. Can the consciousness exist outside of the human body, and the direct environment around it. The speed at which time travels is a personal experience, does it exist, does it really happen, does time travel in slow motion, or, is it a hallucination? The implications this has on time and light, opens up many doors of possible research.

The answer is no consciousness cannot exist outside the body, we went through that on other threads concerning your theory of lightning and its mind reading and fortune telling properties.

From a relative time perspective events are experienced normally. Only those from a different frame of reference see those events happening more quickly or slowly depending on thier relative frame of reference. So your arguement of time going in slow motion which is causing the person to experience events happening more slowly is wrong.

Now had you said that because consciousness escaped the body and its new frame of reference had a faster clock (time rate) than planet earth, then at least your statement about a time dialation experience would be right.

The slow motion playback of events that many experience from a moment of crisis, such as a car accident, can be explained by the brain secreting adrenaline at the time of the incident and causing neural metabolisms to increase, which causes a faster signalling rate between neurons. In such a scenario the brain is sampling information more quickly, it would be the equivalent to the playing back of a high speed camera. High speed cameras have a very fast frame rate, information sampling rate. When you play back the film at a normal rate, 30 frames per second, it appears in slow motion.

 

[Wannabe Yogi]

The answer is no consciousness cannot exist outside the body,

Schrodinger argued that consciousness is singular and all happenings are played out in one universal consciousness. So from this point of view consciousness is endemic to the universe.

 

[MSizer]

Schrodinger argued that consciousness is singular and all happenings are played out in one universal consciousness. So from this point of view consciousness is endemic to the universe.

I know of nothing credible which supports this idea.

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

As we do not know what a soul per se is, all aspects of it must be investigated.

If you don't know what a soul is, then why do you assume that perceived "time slowing down" in traumatic moments points to a soul?

You really should stop trying to read minds. I do not think this implies a soul at all.

I'm not reading any minds; I'm reading your last post, in which you said that "an out of body experience" was a premise in an argument for a soul. I can provide a quote for you if you forgot what you wrote.

However, if you meant for your statement to be a non-sequitir, we can forget it and move on.

Your personal experience is as valid to you as another persons personal experience is valid to them. What do you suggest, we just accept your personal experiences and deny the personal experiences of everybody else?

I wasn't talking about my personal experiences; I was summing up the conclusion of the actual scientific research that's been done on the subject.

I suggest that we examine purported clairvoyance and telepathy in a rigourous and scientifically valid way. And so far, any claimed incident of either of these that's been examined in detail has been found to be lacking. On top of that, we have a well-supported understanding of physical phenomena that are incompatible with the idea that these things could be real.

However, if you have knowledge of someone who does have real psychic abilities, then there are many people who would like to meet him or her. And there's a substantial sum of money in it for them as well.

 

[John D]

Your soul is the one that made you ask this question in the first place, not your intellect, because it( your mind) already has an logical answer all wrapped up and ready to go.
Your soul are made up out of two "parents".

1. The physical matter with its biological make up and unique brain and all that human functions like thinking processes,ability to learn complex theories and stuff like that.
2. Spirit - which I don't presume I am able to define correctly, but it is not of this world. I prefer to call it "God Breath" or the essence of God.

Like a fetus your soul grows out of this union. One will be dominant. That is why not all people can be spiritual, by spiritual I mean able to be "born-again". God call those to follow Him and give them grace to acknowledge Him for who He is, and they (us) will serve Him till the carbon based part of them return to the earth and the "God-breath" return to its place. The soul will keep on developing, there is no limit to its potential.
It doesn't matter if people don't believe in the existence of their souls. It won't make it disappear.

 

[Wannabe Yogi]

I know of nothing credible which supports this idea.

I agree that unless you do spiritual practices it's a leap of faith. But so does epiphehomenalism.

We know that an observer changes very nature of our experiments in Physics.
If we could ask Bohr if an electron is a wave he would say yes, If you are looking through a wave measuring apparatus. No, if you are looking through a partial-measuring apparatus.

If you believe that our minds have evolved in such a way to control matter. That is also a leap of faith. From my point of view Its a bigger leap then I am willing to take. My view seems more logical to me it's also more simple.