Pegg
Jehovah our God is One
if thats the concept, and you agree with it, (i assume you agree with it) why are we arguing over adherence to the mosaci law?
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What is a true Christian?
- Thread starter Agnostic75
- Start date
if thats the concept, and you agree with it, (i assume you agree with it) why are we arguing over adherence to the mosaci law?
blackout
Violet.
Along with all of the 'other' true christians,
who don't agree with them.
(ie., their version)
People truly are what they believe they are
to themselves.
*yawns*
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Shermana
Heretic
Because it's about the Mosaic Law being written upon the people's hearts.
Pegg
Jehovah our God is One
being written on the heart is quite different to being written down on paper in dot form
In the scriptures, when it speaks of the 'heart' it is always figurative.
“Among the Semites . . . all that was peculiar to man, in the category of feelings as well as intellect and will, was attributed to the heart.... It is the sum total of the interior man as opposed to the flesh, which is the exterior and tangible man.”—The Metaphorical Use of the Names of Parts of the Body in Hebrew and in Akkadian, by E. Dhorme, Paris, 1963, pp. 113, 114, 128 (in French).
It is the 'inner person' which is much more then our memory for facts and figures. So having Gods law 'written on our heart' does not mean we will have knowledge of and remember 613 specific mosaic laws. No. It means much more then that.
It has to do with our entire motivation for life, love, desires, affections, emotions, passions, purposes, his thoughts, perceptions, imaginations, his wisdom, knowledge, skills... our ability to reason and our very consciousness.
Think about it....we were created in Gods image. To be in his image means to emulate his very qualities. Our hearts will learn to be complete toward God because he will root out of us all sinful tendencies and all wrong desires...he will teach us to fully project his perfect image just as Jesus did.
Davids Psalm is a good example of what it will mean to be taken into the new covenant
Psalms 51:10 Create in me even a pure heart, O God,
And put within me a new spirit, a steadfast one.
11 Do not throw me away from before your face;
And your holy spirit O do not take away from me.
12 Do restore to me the exultation of salvation by you,
And may you support me even with a willing spirit.
13 I will teach transgressors your ways,
That sinners themselves may turn right back to you.
David knew that his heart was good toward God, but not complete toward God. David had wrong desires like all of us, he was lead astray by his heart more then once.... but he loved God and he knew that only God could fix his sinful heart. The new covenant is what will accomplish this....not the mosaic law because the mosaic law does not change our 'inner person'. Yes, it informs us of Gods standards and morals etc, but it will not change our desires and motives of our hearts. The only thing that can do that is if God removes all traces of sin and that is what it means in terms of the 'New Covenant' ...i will put my law within them and in their 'heart' (desire/will/feelings/talents/motivation/love) i will write it.
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waitasec
Veteran Member
CynthiaCypher
Well-Known Member
It's about the spirit of the law not the letter of the law being written on peoples hearts. Mercy and justice is the spirit of the law not the day you worship or the right kind of sheep you sacrifice.
sweetie
Member
A true Christian is a for giving kind. Are you?
waitasec
Veteran Member
sweetie
Member
That`d be too late then when the damage has been done.
waitasec
Veteran Member
come to think of it..
the christians god isn't forgiving either...
unless they abide by certain conditions...
not really forgiving... but controlling
sweetie
Member
That`s unchristian for such Christians.
waitasec
Veteran Member
then there is no telling what a true christian is....
Shermana
Heretic
Well if the type of sacrifices weren't important, there wouldn't be such elaborate instructions in Leviticus. One of the reasons Saul lost his kingdom was for making unauthorized Sacrifices. But all of that is moot until the Christ physically reigns from Jerusalem and the Temple is rebuilt.
Until then, the letter of the Law is very important, without the letter of the Law, there is no Spirit of the Law. How can there be a Spirit of the Law, without the Letter to begin with? Is not Mercy and Justice clearly indicated in the Law itself?
blackout
Violet.
When 'true christians' change/trade their current (version of) 'true christianity'
for some New version/conviction of true christianity,
does that mean that their previous brand of true christianity
was not/never really true christianity at all?
And what if they change their convictions of 'true christianity' yet again?
Can anyone ever REALLY be sure that THEY are in fact... a 'true christian'?
for some New version/conviction of true christianity,
does that mean that their previous brand of true christianity
was not/never really true christianity at all?
And what if they change their convictions of 'true christianity' yet again?
Can anyone ever REALLY be sure that THEY are in fact... a 'true christian'?
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Muffled
Jesus in me
You'll get a lot of varied answers on this thread. My reply is pretty vague, as I don't want to judge anyone who calls him or herself a Christian: A Christian is someone who follows Jesus' commands to best of his or her ability. Some of His commands: Love your neighbor as yourself. Love God with all your heart, your soul, you strength and your spirit. Love and pray for those who do you wrong. Forgive those who ask. Have mercy on all, so you will be shown mercy as well. You will be judged in the same manner as you judge others. And on and on.
This is just exchanging one lawgiver (Moses) for another (Jesus). However Jesus said that he didn't come to make a new law but to fulfill the old one. So even though people might think of themselves as Christian for following Jesus the truth is that they are really Judaistic in theology.
Shermana
Heretic
I'd say that anything outside of the 30 A.D. era beliefs was never "True" Christianity to begin with at all, and I'd say the Gospels and Epistles and Revelation all say similarly, they were speaking against heretics since day 1. So long as people go by the "official" Roman Canon and manmade Theologies, whether they join one and renounce other makes no difference, it's all just one counterfeit brand or another. And we don't know what exactly the 30 A.D. beliefs were to begin with, we can only guess, but guesses can be educated guesses at least.
I'd say it doesn't matter what one believes is "True Christianity" (even for myself), it's a matter of what most closely follows the very original beliefs regardless what one believes they were (though the scholars and historians are pretty much unanimous that it was a Torah obedient Jewish sect which the Romans didn't even distinguish from other Jews at first). All this talk about "evolving beliefs" is basically acting as if what the texts say about such things doesn't matter, and is exactly against what the texts say.
Since we don't have the originals of the manuscripts and we don't know what exactly is a redaction and edit and pseudipigrapha and what is not (though there's plenty of evidence for much of them to see what is authentic and not), it's a bit of a challenge. However, I'd say that one could be sure that they are CLOSE to what the original 30 A.D. beliefs were if they adopt the Torah and reject Paul and go by Jesus's teachings and abandon any of these post 1st century Antinomian theologies.
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Muffled
Jesus in me
This occurs when people formulate their own definition of a Christian.
This is a contradictory statement because not believing in blood attonement or resurrection means that you are not following His teachings.
Muffled
Jesus in me
A true Christian (not just called one or calling oneself one) is defined by the essentials of Christianity.
The quintessential is that one has accepted Jesus as Lord and Savior.
The Penultimate essential is that one follows Christ. (This should be natural fruit of having the quintessential element but may take time for fruit to ripen)
CynthiaCypher
Well-Known Member
My definition of Christian is far older than yours buddy. And blood atonement and the resurrection weren't that much emphasized by Jesus at all. Both doctrines are late developments.