What is a true Christian?

[Nakosis]

You're not getting what I said. Jesus was teaching total Torah observance. The initial Christians were a Jewish sect. Any history of Christianity will tell you this. It's the Gentile Christians who often want to play revisionism with the actual history.

I suspect every religious group plays a bit of revisionism. I don't see a reason to assume any exceptions.

Now this is just silly if I understand what you're saying, there was indeed a united Umbrella "Jewish" people, otherwise you wouldn't have had the Jewish revolt against the Romans. Whether or not there were several sects, they all had the Torah as their basis. Now if you're talking about the ETHNICITY of the Jews, that's another story of which you have no proof against the idea of Ethnic homogonity.

Jewish people as in American people? There were many people living in the from a variety of ethnicity. Just because someone was born in America is an American citizen it says nothing about their ethnicity. A number of Southern States revolted against the Northern states in the US. So what what? Does that prove anything about ethnicity? However is there anything beside conjecture which support a ethic homogeneity in in the province of Judea at the time of Jesus. Assuming you mean a common ancestry.

There were indeed Hellenized Jews in the Christian movement. But this is more of a rant about who had the true version of Judaism than what I actually said. Jesus was teaching another sect of Torah obedience, claiming to be the correct one, away from the artificial arbitritations of groups like the Pharisees and Sadducees. He was likely a member of the "Nazarene" groups like the Essenes and became a leader of a breakaway sect of them.

Fair enough. Jesus held respect for the Torah.
Yes it is a rant as I get a little frustrated by various religions claiming authority.
However I don't see ancestry whether real or not as having any bearing on the question of authority. So sorry if I thought you implied otherwise.

This has absolutely nothing to do with what I said, the point being that what Jesus was teaching was in fact what he considered a "Pure" form of Torah obedience and "Old school" Jewish religion.

Ok, but then that doesn't really say anything since Old school Jewish religion is just conjecture.

It doesn't matter because what Jesus was clearly teaching was a reaction against Pharisaic and Sadducee versions of "Judaism".

So then we take Jesus as the authority, ignoring any claims made by modern Christianity, Judaism or Islam?

Right, but Jesus was still teaching his portrayal of obedience to the Torah of his day, that's the concept.

So do you see Jesus as having authority from God? Or is this just a historical perspective?

I may agree that the OT today has seen its revisions just like the NT, but that doesn't mean the whole thing should be thrown out.

I don't see Judean priests having any authority over the Torah any more then Christians having authority over the OT. Although I'll admit to being impressed by some of the prophets of the OT. It seems arbitrary as to what one accepts of the OT at that point though.

 

[Shermana]

Jewish people as in American people?

Are you serious?

There were many people living in the from a variety of ethnicity. Just because someone was born in America is an American citizen it says nothing about their ethnicity. A number of Southern States revolted against the Northern states in the US. So what what? Does that prove anything about ethnicity? However is there anything beside conjecture which support a ethic homogeneity in in the province of Judea at the time of Jesus. Assuming you mean a common ancestry.

There is nothing but conjecture and speculation on both sides of the argument of Jewish ethnic homogenity, with genetic tests at least confirming modern homogenity for the most part, but this has pretty much ZERO to do with my point to begin with.

Fair enough. Jesus held respect for the Torah.
Yes it is a rant as I get a little frustrated by various religions claiming authority.
However I don't see ancestry whether real or not as having any bearing on the question of authority. So sorry if I thought you implied otherwise.

It wouldn't matter if the Jews weren't ethnically Jewish or not, my point is that he didn't just hold respect for the Torah, he TAUGHT Torah, apart from Pharisaic misinterpretations. Thus, a "True Christian" is one who obeys Jesus's teachings, and thus obeys Torah, whether they are Israelite-blooded or not.

Ok, but then that doesn't really say anything since Old school Jewish religion is just conjecture.

To a degree, we don't know how much was added or subtracted but we can get a good idea from reading the Apocrypha, Midrash, and non-canonical writings to see what was potentially considered part of the Divine Law. There are enough clues to get a good idea.

So then we take Jesus as the authority, ignoring any claims made by modern Christianity, Judaism or Islam?

That's not the issue at stake, the question is what is a True Christian.

So do you see Jesus as having authority from God? Or is this just a historical perspective?

I do in fact see Jesus as being sent from G-d, entrusted with authority to teach his will. As for the records of what exactly he said, I believe they may mostly be accurate, but just that, MOSTLY.

I don't see Judean priests having any authority over the Torah any more then Christians having authority over the OT. Although I'll admit to being impressed by some of the prophets of the OT. It seems arbitrary as to what one accepts of the OT at that point though

Jesus said that the entire Torah was binding and that not an iota of it would ever become void. Thus, the "True Christian" should be seeking what the entirety of the Law is, whatever it may be (and we have a good idea of what most of it was) and not ignoring or considering it abolished as 99% of them do.

 

[davidthegreek]

You'll get a lot of varied answers on this thread. My reply is pretty vague, as I don't want to judge anyone who calls him or herself a Christian: A Christian is someone who follows Jesus' commands to best of his or her ability. Some of His commands: Love your neighbor as yourself. Love God with all your heart, your soul, you strength and your spirit. Love and pray for those who do you wrong. Forgive those who ask. Have mercy on all, so you will be shown mercy as well. You will be judged in the same manner as you judge others. And on and on.

At least I know perhaps why I will perish. But I certainly hope that I won't.

 

[davidthegreek]

Yes but many Christians would never accept me as being a Christian even though I believe and follow his teachings because I don't believe in the blood atonement or resurrection.

It's death and resurrection that the Gospels talk about.