What is a "valid baptism" according to the Roman Catholic Church?

[YoursTrue]

So, thousands of people were baptized in the first years after the time of Christ, before the "church" came up with this exact wording. Are they all invalid?

Also wondering since someone said baptisms can be performed with saliva,
if someone spits on a person but doesn't use the formula preferred by the Roman Catholic Church would that be valid?
And...What's declared by the Roman Catholic church to happen if the person dies before a "valid" baptism is performed?

 

[YoursTrue]

So, thousands of people were baptized in the first years after the time of Christ, before the "church" came up with this exact wording. Are they all invalid?

Let's be honest. Some here who profess to be Catholic don't even know if Christ really existed. So they can't say if it's true or not. Well, back to the considered possible invalidity of some Catholic baptisms.

 

[YoursTrue]

The CCC paragraph I posted covers this:

CCC 1240 In the Latin Church this triple infusion is accompanied by the minister's words: "N., I baptize you in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Spirit." In the Eastern liturgies the catechumen turns toward the East and the priest says: "The servant of God, N., is baptized in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Spirit." At the invocation of each person of the Most Holy Trinity, the priest immerses the candidate in the water and raises him up again.

Catechism of the Catholic Church - PART 2 SECTION 2 CHAPTER 1 ARTICLE 1

There's no 'we' in either.

Ok thanks for that. Which raises another question, perhaps for another thread. Immersion? Or sprinkling?

 

[YoursTrue]

Well my wife and I were once told, by a particularly backward old priest, that we weren’t properly married, because our wedding was in an Anglican Church. But we didn’t take him seriously, and it hasn’t affected anything as far as I know. No one has since challenged my son’s baptism or first communion on that or any other basis, and if they did they’d be wasting their breath.

So you figured you'd take matters in your own hands and not ask if what the old priest was true (or -- 'valid').

 

[lostwanderingsoul]

Oops someone more knowledgeable than I am would have to offer an answer.

And that would certainly not be the "church".

 

[lostwanderingsoul]

Also wondering since someone said baptisms can be performed with saliva,
if someone spits on a person but doesn't use the formula preferred by the Roman Catholic Church would that be valid?
And...What's declared by the Roman Catholic church to happen if the person dies before a "valid" baptism is performed?

I would rather get answers from God and not some church that proclaims itself to have all the answers.

 

[YoursTrue]

As an unbaptized person who was married in the Catholic Church, I have to ask:

Ummmm... what?

I did a little research on this, although doesn't answer the OP question but hinges on it --
"A Catholic can marry an unbaptized person, but such marriages are natural marriages only; they are not sacramental marriages. The Church, therefore, discourages them and requires a Catholic who wishes to marry an unbaptized person to receive a special dispensation from his or her bishop."
Requirements for Having a Catholic Wedding
www.learnreligions.com/get-married-in-the-catholic-church-542166
So maybe one's mate received a special dispensation? But then the question comes up, what impact does that have on the person or couple if they do or don't get special dispensation from a bishop.

 

[lostwanderingsoul]

Let's be honest. Some here who profess to be Catholic don't even know if Christ really existed. So they can't say if it's true or not. Well, back to the considered possible invalidity of some Catholic baptisms.

And how about this. There was no Catholic church when Peter was baptized so his baptism cannot be valid so how can the church claim to be built upon him.They make up things they can't explain and then tell people they have no choice but to believe them.

 

[YoursTrue]

And that would certainly not be the "church".

lol not sure exactly what you mean, but there are certain ones here who post that either claim to be Catholic and teachers of sort about religion or just plain simple Catholics. So -- back to the question -- if a baptism is not "valid," and the person either doesn't know, doesn't care (as more than one here who say they're Catholic impllies) then what? Someone at least mentioned salvation but since it seems some who post here claiming to be Catholic don't care much, some who say they're not even sure Jesus existed, I guess in a way I got an answer.

 

[YoursTrue]

And how about this. There was no Catholic church when Peter was baptized so his baptism cannot be valid so how can the church claim to be built upon him.They make up things they can't explain and then tell people they have no choice but to believe them.

In deference, while the subject of baptism as discussed in the Bible is truly very interesting, there are some here who claim to be teachers of sorts, yet assert the jBible is full of myths and think maybe Jesus didn't even exist. So then -- it does help clear things up to a certain extent about beliefs. About the validity or invalidity of a particular baptism. So thanks.

 

[YoursTrue]

Good grief, is your god really that pedantic?
Surely a compassionate god would shrug his shoulders (do gods have shoulders??) and say, "No worries, I'll drop the priest a line so he gets it right next time"

Maybe so, but now I'm seeing that if an unbaptized person marries a Catholic, presumably baptized correctly, the baptized person would have to have, or supposed to have, special dispensation from the bishop. WHY???? And more importantly than the why, what does it mean for their standing before God?

 

[RestlessSoul]

So you figured you'd take matters in your own hands and not ask if what the old priest was true (or -- 'valid').

I figured I’d take my chances.

 

[RestlessSoul]

Maybe so, but now I'm seeing that if an unbaptized person marries a Catholic, presumably baptized correctly, the baptized person would have to have, or supposed to have, special dispensation from the bishop. WHY???? And more importantly than the why, what does it mean for their standing before God?

We will all, perhaps, have to stand naked before God one day. I doubt He’ll be asking us about the correct enactment of formal rituals.

 

[Watchmen]

As an unbaptized person who was married in the Catholic Church, I have to ask:

Ummmm... what?

I’m not Catholic, but I’ll give it a shot based on my understanding of Catholic beliefs. If two Catholics are married, and it is later discovered that one or both of them had an “invalid” baptism, they would still be married in the eyes of God, but they would no longer have their marriage considered a sacrament. If you are unbaptized, your marriage was valid, but it was not a sacrament.

 

[Altfish]

Maybe so, but now I'm seeing that if an unbaptized person marries a Catholic, presumably baptized correctly, the baptized person would have to have, or supposed to have, special dispensation from the bishop. WHY???? And more importantly than the why, what does it mean for their standing before God?

Is your god like Putin?
I thought he was ever loving.
Why would he punish someone for being part of a mix up?

 

[YoursTrue]

Is your god like Putin?
I thought he was ever loving.
Why would he punish someone for being part of a mix up?

The Catholic church has a lot of members. If I thought God aligns with that church, I'd be Catholic. So please don't keep saying what you imagine is the personality of the God I worship. Thanks. I hope you understand, I didn't make up the rules. Thanks, Altfish.

 

[YoursTrue]

We will all, perhaps, have to stand naked before God one day. I doubt He’ll be asking us about the correct enactment of formal rituals.

Good point. Otoh do you think it's possible we are standing before God now?

 

[Rival]

Ok thanks for that. Which raises another question, perhaps for another thread. Immersion? Or sprinkling?

Immersion.

 

[RestlessSoul]

Good point. Otoh do you think it's possible we are standing before God now?

In a sense, I suppose we always are. But I believe in a loving God. I know the Bible in places suggests we should fear God, but I draw courage from God, not fear.

 

[Rival]

@YoursTrue

A lot of answers here are from non-Catholics, myself included. If you really have an interest in this, I'd strongly suggest buying a copy of the Catechism (can be found very cheap on eBay and other places), which I have done (mine was only £4 or so), and go through it in your own time. I'd also suggest buying a Catholic study Bible or such, which I have also done. My boyfriend is a strong Catholic and I have been making efforts to get with his faith, and this is the best way to do it. A lot of lay Catholics are not very informed and the best place to go for answers is the source. Catholic books, news agencies, and so on. There are answers to your questions, but they come with nuance and history. It's not going to be anything like Protestant 'free-for-all' (for lack of a better phrase), so may come off as legalistic and ritualised if you are not used to this. I just think that would be better than what you're finding here.