What is a "valid baptism" according to the Roman Catholic Church?

[Rival]

All of this foolishness only applies to people who choose to believe in the teachings of that one particular church. Do you think a Jewish marriage is invalid? Or a Muslim marriage? They would only be invalid to the one church that says they are not. And some people do not care about what that church thinks.

This is not the point.

The Catholic Church deals with what applies to the Catholic Church. In order to have your marriage blessed as a sacrament, one has to follow the rules of the Church. If one is not a Catholic but wants to marry in a Catholic service for whatever reason, that marriage cannot be sacramental. If one wants a Catholic marriage, one has to follow Catholic rules.

It's not hard.

 

[pearl]

We recognize marriages performed in other religions and denominations, as well as civil marriages.

This if off thread but my husband had an interesting visit with his doctor who never rushes him out the door. The doctor explained that he is a Catholic and very disturbed that his son is to be married in Mexico, and it will not be recognized by the Church.

 

[lostwanderingsoul]

We recognize marriages performed in other religions and denominations, as well as civil marriages. In Catholicism, since marriage is one of the seven sacraments the Church recognizes, one has the option of having their marriage blessed if they wish to become Catholic.

I thought I would post the above for clarification.

That is good to know.

 

[pearl]

It's not hard.

Catholic Wedding Help: What if one of us is not Catholic?

 

[Rival]

Catholic Wedding Help: What if one of us is not Catholic?

I'm not sure what you're trying to say here.

 

[Martin]

Can I get my baptism reversed on appeal? I wasn't properly consulted when it was done.

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

This is not the point.

The Catholic Church deals with what applies to the Catholic Church. In order to have your marriage blessed as a sacrament, one has to follow the rules of the Church. If one is not a Catholic but wants to marry in a Catholic service for whatever reason, that marriage cannot be sacramental. If one wants a Catholic marriage, one has to follow Catholic rules.

It's not hard.

But breaking "Catholic rules" doesn't automatically make something invalid.

Those rules also make a distinction between validity and licitness; the mere fact that a sacrament was performed illicitly doesn't automatically make it invalid.

And as far as marriage goes, from what I understand - as an unbaptized person who went through all the rigmarole of getting married in a Catholic church - is that a sacramental marriage requires one of the spouses to be baptized.

 

[metis]

This if off thread but my husband had an interesting visit with his doctor who never rushes him out the door. The doctor explained that he is a Catholic and very disturbed that his son is to be married in Mexico, and it will not be recognized by the Church.

It will be but not considered sacramental. Can I assume his son is not getting married in a Catholic church?

 

[pearl]

I'm not sure what you're trying to say here.

Simply offering clarification on requirements for valid Catholic marriage, in a mixed marriage.

 

[Rival]

@9-10ths_Penguin

Here's what the Catechism says:

1601 "The matrimonial covenant, by which a man and a woman establish between themselves a partnership of the whole of life, is by its nature ordered toward the good of the spouses and the procreation and education of offspring; this covenant between baptized persons has been raised by Christ the Lord to the dignity of a sacrament."84

If one is not baptised, not a Christian, therefore it is not 'raised to the dignity of a sacrament'.

Wiki:

The Catholic Church recognizes as sacramental, (1) the marriages between two baptized Protestants or between two baptized Orthodox Christians, as well as (2) marriages between baptized non-Catholic Christians and Catholic Christians,[8] although in the latter case, consent from the diocesan bishop must be obtained, with this termed "permission to enter into a mixed marriage".[9] To illustrate (1), for example, "if two Lutherans marry in the Lutheran Church in the presence of a Lutheran minister, the Catholic Church recognizes this as a valid sacrament of marriage."[8] On the other hand, although the Catholic Church recognizes marriages between two non-Christians or those between a Catholic Christian and a non-Christian, these are not considered to be sacramental, and in the latter case, the Catholic Christian must seek permission from his/her bishop for the marriage to occur; this permission is known as "dispensation from disparity of cult".[10]

 

[metis]

Can I get my baptism reversed on appeal? I wasn't properly consulted when it was done.

Simple-- just don't recognize it yourself.

 

[Martin]

Simple-- just don't recognize it yourself.

I'm scarred for life with all that original sin, and obligatory confession. Pah! I might claim compensation from the Vatican, though they're probably too busy with all the child abuse scandals . I was also "confirmed", but nobody asked me if I was OK with it. Pah!

 

[pearl]

It will be but not considered sacramental. Can I assume his son is not getting married in a Catholic church?

No. The whole plan is rather bizarre, the guests pay for the entire wedding. Added to that the marriage itself may not be legal in the States.

 

[YoursTrue]

In a sense, I suppose we always are. But I believe in a loving God. I know the Bible in places suggests we should fear God, but I draw courage from God, not fear.

Fear God. I'd like to put that in perspective, both for my sake and to explain as much as possible to you. If I love someone I would not want to do something I know he does not like. You pose an interesting question, and I will think about it. When someone does something very good for you, you tend to be affectionately disposed towards that person. I'm going to stop there for now.

 

[YoursTrue]

It's been said by some that "There's no such thing as a stupid question", but you've proved them wrong. You also expose your own bigotry with such sarcasm, so have you no shame whatsoever? Is there any low you won't stoop to?

There are valid questions to be asked of the Church, no doubt, but yours above is basically unChristian in its approach.

There's what's called "baptism by desire", namely like the one man on the cross next to Jesus, there may be no opportunity for baptism, and yet Jesus said that that man that he would be with Jesus in paradise on the same day.

Sorry, you just didn't like my phrasing. I believe God is higher than man and the idea that a person can be baptized by spitting on him is something I never heard until these conversations. Jesus said the right and truthful words to the man dying next to him. What a loving expression.

 

[Rival]

Sorry, you just didn't like my phrasing. I believe God is higher than man and the idea that a person can be baptized by spitting on him is something I never heard until these conversations. The man next to Jesus dying expressed faith in him. Jesus told the truth. That was not a myth or fable. Jesus said the right and truthful words to the dying man next to him.

It's not by spitting, but using one's saliva.

 

[YoursTrue]

We recognize marriages performed in other religions and denominations, as well as civil marriages. In Catholicism, since marriage is one of the seven sacraments the Church recognizes, one has the option of having their marriage blessed if they wish to become Catholic.

I thought I would post the above for clarification.

Just as you say 'we' recognize marriages,' etc. are you speaking for the Catholic church? That is kind of what the priest did in the OP where he said "WE baptize you," etc. isn't it? It's obvious from posts that some who are Catholic do NOT care what the Catholic church much says about validity of marriage.

 

[metis]

It's not by spitting, but using one's saliva.

Yep, but honesty does not really make any difference to some people. Thanks anyway.

 

[metis]

Just as you say 'we' recognize marriages,' etc. are you speaking for the Catholic church?

Yes, as I am a teacher within the Church, and it's not kids that I teach btw.

That is kind of what the priest did in the OP where he said "WE baptize you," etc. isn't it?

Nope, as he used the "We" not the "I". Marriages outside the Church can use any wording they want.

It's obvious from posts that some who are Catholic do NOT care what the Catholic church much says about validity of marriage.

Whom here does that?

Also, just for your info, the Church is not the Gestapo, thus there can be honest dissent, and that's all fine & dandy as far as that goes. Since you're not Catholic, why do you care what we do as it doesn't involve you even one iota? Do you do this a lot with those who may have to associate with you as well?

 

[metis]

I'm scarred for life with all that original sin, and obligatory confession. Pah! I might claim compensation from the Vatican, though they're probably too busy with all the child abuse scandals . I was also "confirmed", but nobody asked me if I was OK with it. Pah!

Were you "scarred for life" about your parents sometimes told you "No" or "Do ..."?

I'm not being sarcastic here but merely trying to point out that as parents we all make at least some decisions for our kids that the kids may regret. And every organization of all types that I can think of have their policies and rules along with penalties if some don't follow them. Such is life, and you and I will do that to our own children, although my wife's and my 6 grandkids are now in college or the workforce, and a couple of our "kids" are now approaching retirement.

I'm 25 btw. New math.