What is better conditional level or unconditional?

[Nakosis]

If God's love were unconditional, that would mean you can take all of these silly human religious beliefs and kick them into the void.

I suppose religious folks can't accept this as it would make their beliefs irrelevant.

 

[Fool]

God is most compassionate in proper place of mercy and pardon, and most severest in proper place of vengeance and retribution. We may want to escape this reality because it makes uneasy about our fate, but to me, it's clearly a case, hate is not unrighteous except when misapplied.

Everything has a proper place. Hate serves a purpose too. And it's a manifestation of the Divine, but only when he applies his oneness and sheer essence to the rebellious and evil.

And compassion precedes wrath, it's not that they are equal. The proper place of mercy and compassion is that it should precede wrath. God accepts repentance.

again hating a person, a spirit, a soul, vs disliking an action, are not the same thing. love is the law. anyone who hates is beneath the law. anyone who loves is within the law. love doesn't cease just because correction is made. being angry at someone for a wrong isn't a problem. being angry at someone because of something other than a negative action is not within the law. doesn't promote the law of reciprocity

 

[Fool]

If God's love were unconditional, that would mean you can take all of these silly human religious beliefs and kick them into the void.

I suppose religious folks can't accept this as it would make their beliefs irrelevant.

and that is why it is written

proverbs 10:12

daniel 12:2

1 peter 4:8

 

[Link]

again hating a person, a spirit, a soul, vs disliking an action, are not the same thing. love is the law. anyone who hates is beneath the law. anyone who loves is within the law. love doesn't cease just because correction is made. being angry at someone for a wrong isn't a problem. being angry at someone because of something other than a negative action is not within the law. doesn't promote the law of reciprocity

Your view is noted and appreciated.

 

[Nakosis]

and that is why it is written

proverbs 10:12

daniel 12:2

1 peter 4:8

Why would shame and everlasting contempt even exist?

 

[Link]

again hating a person, a spirit, a soul, vs disliking an action, are not the same thing. love is the law. anyone who hates is beneath the law. anyone who loves is within the law. love doesn't cease just because correction is made. being angry at someone for a wrong isn't a problem. being angry at someone because of something other than a negative action is not within the law. doesn't promote the law of reciprocity

I think actions are people in states, and so if you constantly are in evil states, it makes your essence evil over time. And it doesn't make sense to hate actions (temporary states of people) over their essence if they are evil. Effects harm wise are only allowed to happen in this world, to test us if we are good and evil, and how good or evil we will be. We been allowed to benefit and help others so God can see how good we are. In same way doesn't make sense to love good actions but not love the good doer of them, to me same about evil. It's inconsistency in reasoning to love a person more for good actions but not hate a person for evil actions.

The consequences of people turning away from guidance of God to me effects everyone, but it's not just the harm I hate, I hate the state and intention behind, and that is linked to sins and the evil essence. I can't equate such people with people who search God's face with love and desire and arrive at the truth of God's guidance.

They two are not the same to me.

 

[Fool]

Why would shame and everlasting contempt even exist?

because loving other as self is seen as beneath self. an extreme narcissist would find such a thing as loving another as a sacrifice, or neglect of self. they would see other as self as equals

 

[Clara Tea]

I like St. Thomas' answer on whether or not God loves some more than others and I think it is related to this topic:

"Since to love a thing is to will it good, in a twofold way anything may be loved more, or less. In one way on the part of the act of the will itself, which is more or less intense. In this way God does not love some things more than others, because He loves all things by an act of the will that is one, simple, and always the same. In another way on the part of the good itself that a person wills for the beloved. In this way we are said to love that one more than another, for whom we will a greater good, though our will is not more intense. In this way we must needs say that God loves some things more than others. For since God's love is the cause of goodness in things, as has been said, no one thing would be better than another, if God did not will greater good for one than for another."

I am not sure how to think of the word "conditional" concerning God because I hold that He is the ultimate cause of all things as they are and is not surprised by anything. Would it just be conditioned on Himself then ("He works out everything by the counsel of His will")? For He is the one who gives us goods and takes them away. I'll have to think about it more.

All of the above is my opinion.

In other posts, Link has suggested that God is surprised by future events. So, in his religion, I don't think that God is the ultimate cause of all things.

But, in the view of the Christians, God knows all future events. If so, why does God allow Satan and hell? I suggested that it is possible that those roasting in the lake of fire of hell might want to change their minds and accept God. If so, maybe hell was allowed by God as a means to convert sinners? Torture sinners until they love God? That doesn't sound like the act of God.

 

[1213]

...

Now before I go on to show why I believe one over the other. I want people to give me their thoughts. Explain where they put God on the spectrum between conditional and unconditional, as I believe no one is fully on one side or the other.

...

I think God's love is unconditional. He cares of everyone and does not do anything evil for anyone. But, love is not the opposite of hate, in my opinion, because I think love means caring and one does not hate anyone who he does not care of. Also, love does not mean person is not just, or that he does not punish. Only person who cares, can punish anyone.

 

[blü 2]

This thread is a foundation to more threads to come. Eventually, I want to prove hell and it's forever nature.

However, before we get there, take away hell, take away paradise. Just let's talk about love of two types.

Conditional and unconditional. First how do we define these, I'm suspecting none of them are fully that in the eyes of whatever side you take.

Full unconditional to me, would mean he loves every thing to maximum amount, no matter how evil you are, no one is loved less.

Full conditional to me, means, your love is accordance to your deeds by just measure.

Now in reality, I think both side of debates don't have either.

I'm going to define more where I lie in the spectrum. I believe God's compassionate - there is a universal love type compassion, and this is ultimate to even the worse creatures including Satan. With Satan he feels sorry for that creature with that feeling, but his wrath is such that he doesn't accept him for what he has chosen to be and for his leading astray, is rejected from his mercy and intense grace. So he is damned in God's view and hated as well, but loved in the sense of deep compassion.

Now, also, believers are not going to earn paradise through justice. That's not going to happen. Only few would follow God's light without intercession of his chosen.

Through God's grace and through the intercession of his chosen ones and holding to them, and repenting and prayers, God will accept our little worth of deeds and repay them intensely with his generosity. That is to say, you just got to give some reason for God to love you and grace upon you, and he comes racing to you and amplifies his light and grace upon your soul and you gain insights and knowledge and power you never expected.

So while there are some condition there, all it is, really, is some love towards God and his chosen, and he will pardon our evil and help us defeat it.

However, I do believe evil people and people who rebel against God's guidance, they frankly, must be lower in God's eyes and are despised and hated by him. They won't even give God and his chosen a chance to guide them and come up with all sorts of excuses for not giving the sent ones by him a chance to guide them.

I've seen people say God will forgive us no matter how bad we screwed up, like we love our children, and if our children screw up, we forgive them and wish well for them.

Now this is not to say God doesn't despite the actions of these people, just that, unconditional means God will pardon and still not torture the human being. It's not that he doesn't dislike who the person has become, it's that he sill will guide them.

Now before I go on to show why I believe one over the other. I want people to give me their thoughts. Explain where they put God on the spectrum between conditional and unconditional, as I believe no one is fully on one side or the other.

And I will hear reasons for their spectrum.

IF God is omnipotent AND IF God is benevolent THEN there will be no hell, no punishment ─ instead God, recognizing [his] own part in bringing a faulty or vulnerable human into existence, will cure the offender of his or her faults, immediately.

One consequence of this would be that the offender recognized the faults as such, and was appropriately regretful.

Of course, if God is NOT omnipotent or if God is NOT benevolent, then who knows what a merely powerful but either indifferent or malevolent deity might do.

 

[rational experiences]

This thread is a foundation to more threads to come. Eventually, I want to prove hell and it's forever nature.

However, before we get there, take away hell, take away paradise. Just let's talk about love of two types.

Conditional and unconditional. First how do we define these, I'm suspecting none of them are fully that in the eyes of whatever side you take.

Full unconditional to me, would mean he loves every thing to maximum amount, no matter how evil you are, no one is loved less.

Full conditional to me, means, your love is accordance to your deeds by just measure.

Now in reality, I think both side of debates don't have either.

I'm going to define more where I lie in the spectrum. I believe God's compassionate - there is a universal love type compassion, and this is ultimate to even the worse creatures including Satan. With Satan he feels sorry for that creature with that feeling, but his wrath is such that he doesn't accept him for what he has chosen to be and for his leading astray, is rejected from his mercy and intense grace. So he is damned in God's view and hated as well, but loved in the sense of deep compassion.

Now, also, believers are not going to earn paradise through justice. That's not going to happen. Only few would follow God's light without intercession of his chosen.

Through God's grace and through the intercession of his chosen ones and holding to them, and repenting and prayers, God will accept our little worth of deeds and repay them intensely with his generosity. That is to say, you just got to give some reason for God to love you and grace upon you, and he comes racing to you and amplifies his light and grace upon your soul and you gain insights and knowledge and power you never expected.

So while there are some condition there, all it is, really, is some love towards God and his chosen, and he will pardon our evil and help us defeat it.

However, I do believe evil people and people who rebel against God's guidance, they frankly, must be lower in God's eyes and are despised and hated by him. They won't even give God and his chosen a chance to guide them and come up with all sorts of excuses for not giving the sent ones by him a chance to guide them.

I've seen people say God will forgive us no matter how bad we screwed up, like we love our children, and if our children screw up, we forgive them and wish well for them.

Now this is not to say God doesn't despite the actions of these people, just that, unconditional means God will pardon and still not torture the human being. It's not that he doesn't dislike who the person has become, it's that he sill will guide them.

Now before I go on to show why I believe one over the other. I want people to give me their thoughts. Explain where they put God on the spectrum between conditional and unconditional, as I believe no one is fully on one side or the other.

And I will hear reasons for their spectrum.

First of all no human being human is advised... no questions no answers.

Rational advice I pretend I think on behalf of a God the topic in reality.

No human.

Animals. Are you animal loved?
Mother father sex...baby. some male animals assist baby some don't.

Loved. Are loving yet are also ferocious.

Pretend you are a species. You lived together. Mutual. You don't live to be food. You however get no choice.

Not loving mutual having no choice.

Pretending you are... God.

Now you are species human. What is your excuse?

Two types. Chemical mentally imbalanced bad behaviour self destructive. Locked away for family protection.

Mutual living loving conditions mutual.

Which human type do you demon strata depict?

Now ask your human mutual life why call strata a demonstration and demon?

Non mutual imbalanced chemical disturbed human says my confess of Sion fusion I altered it's sealed ground Strata. I named the cause. To demonstrate why.

Should they be considered mutual or not is your question...
by what condition does truth for human life exist within!

 

[viole]

"Since to love a thing is to will it good, in a twofold way anything may be loved more, or less. In one way on the part of the act of the will itself, which is more or less intense. In this way God does not love some things more than others, because He loves all things by an act of the will that is one, simple, and always the same. In another way on the part of the good itself that a person wills for the beloved. In this way we are said to love that one more than another, for whom we will a greater good, though our will is not more intense. In this way we must needs say that God loves some things more than others. For since God's love is the cause of goodness in things, as has been said, no one thing would be better than another, if God did not will greater good for one than for another."

Isn't that a bit circular?

God loves differently because there are different grades of good. Why are there different grades of good? Is that because God loves them differently?

Ciao

- viole

 

[rational experiences]

Isn't that a bit circular?

God loves differently because there are different grades of good. Why are there different grades of good? Is that because God loves them differently?

Ciao

- viole

We were created mutual a human and equal.

 

[Link]

IF God is omnipotent AND IF God is benevolent THEN there will be no hell, no punishment ─ instead God, recognizing [his] own part in bringing a faulty or vulnerable human into existence, will cure the offender of his or her faults, immediately.

One consequence of this would be that the offender recognized the faults as such, and was appropriately regretful.

Of course, if God is NOT omnipotent or if God is NOT benevolent, then who knows what a merely powerful but either indifferent or malevolent deity might do.

I think accepting regret makes sense in this world, but after death, it's far too late.

 

[blü 2]

I think accepting regret makes sense in this world, but after death, it's far too late.

Why is it far too late?

Or are you saying that God is not benevolent?

 

[Link]

Why is it far too late?

Or are you saying that God is not benevolent?

It's too late because it no longer has value like it has in this world. They are dead, know they have to regret or face consequences for sure. And there is no reason to delay either.

A lot of people relay regret and repentance planning for future to do it, but their heart on the way get's too hard and then their sins defeat their faith/light, and when they utterly in darkness, they justify it. They begin to justify their actions.

All this can't happen when it's too late. There is no value to it or if there is, it is so minimal it can't be accepted by God. It's a selfish regret that is way too late.

 

[Link]

Also in addition to that, there is no longer a test to see if we swerve from repentance and return to sin or be patient in God's love. So repenting and regret is of either no or little value after it's too late.

 

[TagliatelliMonster]

That's one way to phrase it. Another way, is I have come to terms to hate who God hates.

So your god is petty.

 

[blü 2]

It's too late because it no longer has value like it has in this world. They are dead, know they have to regret or face consequences for sure. And there is no reason to delay either.

So indeed you're saying God is NOT benevolent.

Fair enough. Gods are whatever you want them to be.

 

[rational experiences]

Men quote science terms.

What saves in reactions.
What destroys in reactions.
No reaction first.

Reason.
O earth stone planet existed.
Heavens existed.
Tree nature garden rooted into dirt earth.
Animals.
Humans existed.

Theism how to react a reaction . What is a good state what is a bad state what is the saving state.

Humans live water supported.

Above is water.
Within body is water
Below is water inside stone.

Saved life status known. Supported life status known. Trees oxygenated above us.

Heavenly body our life existing.

Not good not bad just natural.

Thinker. O earth it's heavens it's nature nurtures me like a human parent does.

A theme.

Where is the God?

Who searched for a God?

Men in science had.

Science says I look for the source that takes what exists and reacts changes it.

What is sciences God? Evil by definition the want to force changes.

Pretty basic advice science is the God liar.

Reason. A great man who thought back says...human.
Animal.
Tree garden nature.
Heavens.
Earth stone planet.

Before the thought nothing to think about.

The theory. How to change the stones mass.

What conditions relied on stone existing naturally?

It's heavens
The tree garden rooted in ground.
The animals walking upon the planet.
The humans walking upon the planet.

What does a scientist human biologist say a human changes converts into? Death and microbe bacterias.

Their destruction only.

What creation does two humans own,? Sex and a healthy man baby.

Pretty basic real human advice.

Why would a scientist theory a human began as bacterias microbes actually?

In thinking reality?

When science of medical biology says human life is closest body type and life formed an ape?