• Welcome to Religious Forums, a friendly forum to discuss all religions in a friendly surrounding.

    Your voice is missing! You will need to register to get access to the following site features:
    • Reply to discussions and create your own threads.
    • Our modern chat room. No add-ons or extensions required, just login and start chatting!
    • Access to private conversations with other members.

    We hope to see you as a part of our community soon!

What is faith?

.lava

Veteran Member
What is faith to you? What does it represent to you? Is all faith equal?

faith is everything to me.
it represents what's within my heart. i mean it there was a light within each heart, faith is one unique filter to reflect it.
i can't say they are all equal. you know there have been some cults which has racist roots. i donot mind my neighbour to be Muslim, Christian, fire worshipper...etc
but if someone comes up with a certain belief and if he practises his belief by killings others (and absolutely doesnot matter what belief those 'others' follow), i can't respect or accept that.
all the faiths, understandings and beliefs that has racism in its core are -never- welcomed.
 

ayani

member
faith is everything to me.
it represents what's within my heart. i mean it there was a light within each heart, faith is one unique filter to reflect it.
i can't say they are all equal. you know there have been some cults which has racist roots. i donot mind my neighbour to be Muslim, Christian, fire worshipper...etc
but if someone comes up with a certain belief and if he practises his belief by killings others (and absolutely doesnot matter what belief those 'others' follow), i can't respect or accept that.
all the faiths, understandings and beliefs that has racism in its core are -never- welcomed.

awesome. beautifully said, man.
 

autonomous1one1

Well-Known Member
Premium Member
I am sorry call me stupid if you want but I stared at that wiki page for almost an hour scratching my head. Seeing how Jay is uncooperative, do you think maybe you clarify it a bit?

Could we say gravity is intersubjective verifiable but the Easter bunny is not?
Greetings Jeremiah. I expect that you are as far along on this terminology as I am. For this thread for now, I am thinking of the term as applicable to items of faith in the objective world that can be verified by individuals consistently through scientific methodologies. Gravity, of course, can be verified by anybody - drop an apple:). On the other hand, the Easter bunny transcends the objective world :D.
Regards,
a..1
 

Jeremiah

Well-Known Member
Greetings Jeremiah. I expect that you are as far along on this terminology as I am. For this thread for now, I am thinking of the term as applicable to items of faith in the objective world that can be verified by individuals consistently through scientific methodologies. Gravity, of course, can be verified by anybody - drop an apple:). On the other hand, the Easter bunny transcends the objective world :D.
Regards,
a..1


Thanks for clarifying I was beginning to question my sanity.:rainbow1:
 

Willamena

Just me
Premium Member
Greetings. Believe you are on to something - we definitely need to 'classify' types of faith...
I would venture that there is only one "type" of faith. Whatever context we take that in, it means the same thing.

Since becoming "mystic" I've found this to be true for a lot of things.
 

Willamena

Just me
Premium Member
I am sorry call me stupid if you want but I stared at that wiki page for almost an hour scratching my head. Seeing how Jay is uncooperative, do you think maybe you clarify it a bit?

Could we say gravity is intersubjective verifiable but the Easter bunny is not?
The so-called "intersubjectivity" is but input that adds another bit to certainty. There is no one to determine certainty but you.
 

autonomous1one1

Well-Known Member
Premium Member
I would venture that there is only one "type" of faith. Whatever context we take that in, it means the same thing. Since becoming "mystic" I've found this to be true for a lot of things.
Greetings Willamena. You pose an interesting 'venture' which might take clarity of mind to find the 'essence' of the meaning of 'faith.' May I ask, would you consider the 'faith' in 'I have faith that the sun will rise tomorrow' to be the same as the 'faith' in 'I have faith that God is' ? Is it the same in - 'I have faith in myself;' 'I have faith that you will respond to this post;' 'he acted in good faith' ?
 

Willamena

Just me
Premium Member
Greetings Willamena. You pose an interesting 'venture' which might take clarity of mind to find the 'essence' of the meaning of 'faith.' May I ask, would you consider the 'faith' in 'I have faith that the sun will rise tomorrow' to be the same as the 'faith' in 'I have faith that God is' ? Is it the same in - 'I have faith in myself;' 'I have faith that you will respond to this post;' 'he acted in good faith' ?
Yes. It's the same function of 'trust' at work, in things that are not (or not yet) verified or verifiable. That the sun "will rise" is that it has not yet risen. God to me is the unknown/unknowable/undefinable/ineffable, and hence faith in God is faith in something intangible. The context changes a bit for "faith in myself," as that refers to things I might do or present myself as at some future time. Similar context for the "will respond" while it's not yet happened.
 

doppelganger

Through the Looking Glass
The so-called "intersubjectivity" is but input that adds another bit to certainty. There is no one to determine certainty but you.

Quite right. "Intersubjectivity" is merely a method commonly applied by the one determining certainty for assessing the weight or significance to be given a particular item of evidence for or against a particular probability.
 

PureX

Veteran Member
Sheesh! Are you two back on this again? *smile*

If ya'll are so able to be certain, what do you need faith for?
 

Smoke

Done here.
That's not what my dictionary says ("Confident belief in the truth, value, or trustworthiness of a person, idea, or thing").
Your dictionary misses the nuances of the word. Try this one:
faith
1.confidence or trust in a person or thing: faith in another's ability.
2.
belief that is not based on proof: He had faith that the hypothesis would be substantiated by fact.
3.
belief in God or in the doctrines or teachings of religion: the firm faith of the Pilgrims.
4.belief in anything, as a code of ethics, standards of merit, etc.: to be of the same faith with someone concerning honesty.
5.
a system of religious belief: the Christian faith; the Jewish faith.
6.
the obligation of loyalty or fidelity to a person, promise, engagement, etc.: Failure to appear would be breaking faith.
7.the observance of this obligation; fidelity to one's promise, oath, allegiance, etc.: He was the only one who proved his faith during our recent troubles.
8.Christian Theology. the trust in God and in His promises as made through Christ and the Scriptures by which humans are justified or saved.
It's usually a mistake to use a dictionary entry as though it were a mathematical formula, anyway. In linguistics, 2 + 2 does not necessarily equal 4.
 

Jeremiah

Well-Known Member
By saying that the God is the unknowable we haven given form to God. The very existence of the word God says that people do in fact feel that to some degree or another they know God. If one looks at the word God closely enough I think you'll find that God reflects the nature of man and the worldly very closely. And if a human looks inside themselves to make sense of what they are, then looks on the world in the same manner. Than in order for them to find what it is they are looking for, there needs be more to life than simple desire. In others words if the human see the world through eyes of order in order for patterned chaos to be order there needs to be a purpose. And if the human can only see chaos then they must conclude that they themselves are also pattern chaos. But knowing this the individual than can apply force and become the purpose needed to have order. So what if God as a knowable is filling that greater need to have that root, that purpose to expel humankind beyond that of a mere beast. In that sense what if when Abraham was spear heading the trail, that faith in God meant wisdom that grants purpose. Then when the beholder has faith or wisdom enough to turn chaos into order they receive the “gift of God” life and finiteness in all it splendor. So my question is what if faith as set forth by Abraham was not belief in God at all but the path that leads to the “God wisdom”. What if faith is stepping up the duty placed on one by a seemly innate desire to have purpose and order. Then in that sense God stops being the unknown and becomes the quest for the knowable. The quest to stop leaning on God for purpose but inside to become the purpose the creator intend an individual to be; therefore fulfilling that deep seeded need to have goal-oriented order by becoming the initial cause or true order amongst chaos.

Human have a longing to have a meaningful life, a life of wonder and splendor. But they fear time and death renders everything for not. So by the inclusion of God the person receives a meaningful life and glory with little or no effort. But these humans that live in this manner as if God is the great provider are not humans at all but mere beast. Because they stepped down from the responsibility of becoming purpose as placed there by the creator, they will never change chaos into order in fact they only add to the chaos. Then we could say that this path of faith is instead a huge funnel in which to funnel the beast through and in which humans pop out the other side. But at this time the hole on the end of the funnel is small and only a very few meek individual are able to pass trough. The rest of us beast are trying to push our way to this small hole then dump enough baggage that we to may pass through and be know as humans bringers of order.

Than as bringers of order we have it within our grasp the capacity to alter the inevitable fate of our doom as dictated by a time path laid down by infinity. A doom promised to us by a witless cause and effect. Of course this type of faith is a daunting task. Once the human gets to the point where they feel that everything is for not in the face of infinity and to realize that every effort is likely worthless and pointless. Then only by faith could they move on; not faith in themselves, for the fruits of their labor will not come in this life but faith in a hope against hope that everything is for a good reason.

When I was a kid for many years I use to a say a little pray every night. Not to God I never really did believe in God. But for years kneeled in bed after the lights were out, I would look out the window and upon the first star I saw I whisper “I wish I may I wish I might I wish upon the first star I see tonight.” Then I would still myself look into my heart than with tears in my eye and my fist clinched I would look at the star and whisper “I wish everything will turn out all right.” Mainly because I knew I was gay and yet I knew or rather I believe at that time I was not suppose to be gay. In essence I was praying for unknown forces to give me happiness in a future I could not see happiness. I have always had very dark vision and to me faith is that star, a single speck of hope billions and billions of miles away.

In short, faith is the means in which we cheat death.

But perhaps this was not the message of Abraham but musing of my own wild imagination.
 

Willamena

Just me
Premium Member
By saying that the God is the unknowable we haven given form to God.
Not specifically, no; more like we have given over formlessness to God, as forms are known/knowable. It is an image of God as imageless, a form of God as formlessness, a definition of God as undefined, all of which defy explanation (they don't explain anything).

I see what you are saying in the first bit, and I agree that claiming God as the formlessness linguistically eliminates God as the form; but ironically, as I see it, I can only see (metaphor) what you are saying because I have that foundation of understanding the formlessness in place, and in understanding duality I can draw on unity, drawing it all back together like a rubber band, so that when it is said that "God is the unknowable" it is an implicit acknolwledgement that the formless is also every form that we can give it, and that describes something both greater than/lesser of and co-existing with and as God --me. The force that brings order from chaos, figuratively speaking, is imagination.

I can't address the Abrahamic stuff, sorry, don't know enough about that.
 

blackout

Violet.
.................................... In that sense what if when Abraham was spear heading the trail, that faith in God meant wisdom that grants purpose. Then when the beholder has faith or wisdom enough to turn chaos into order they receive the “gift of God” life and finiteness in all it splendor. So my question is what if faith as set forth by Abraham was not belief in God at all but the path that leads to the “God wisdom”. What if faith is stepping up the duty placed on one by a seemly innate desire to have purpose and order. Then in that sense God stops being the unknown and becomes the quest for the knowable. The quest to stop leaning on God for purpose but inside to become the purpose the creator intend an individual to be; therefore fulfilling that deep seeded need to have goal-oriented order by becoming the initial cause or true order amongst chaos.

Human have a longing to have a meaningful life, a life of wonder and splendor. But they fear time and death renders everything for not. So by the inclusion of God the person receives a meaningful life and glory with little or no effort. But these
humans that live in this manner as if God is the great provider are not humans at all but mere beast. Because they stepped down from the responsibility of becoming purpose as placed there by the creator, they will never change chaos into order in fact they only add to the chaos. .............................................

.

The quest to stop leaning on God for purpose but inside to become the purpose the creator intend an individual to be; therefore fulfilling that deep seeded need to have goal-oriented order by becoming the initial cause or true order amongst chaos.

Wonderful post Jeremiah!
Deep and beautiful insights. :rainbow1:
 
Top