What is God?

[`mud]

What is `God` ?

What is `Brahman` ?

They provide a pathe to find Heaven or Nirvana.

I wonder what is beyond those goals,
maybe it's one's `end`.

 

[1213]

What real thing is denoted by the word "God"?

Qualities like

omniscient,
omnipotent,
omnipresent,
perfect,
eternal,
infinite,
spiritual,
supernatural,
immaterial​

aren't qualities of real things, only of imaginary things.

How do you know that?

So given a God who's found in reality ─ by which I mean the world external to the self, nature, where things with objective existence are found ─ in what form does that God exist?...

Bible tells about God that He is love, spirit and dwells in people.

God is spirit, and those who worship him must worship in spirit and truth.
John 4:24
He who doesn't love doesn't know God, for God is love.
1 John 4:8
Don't you know that you are a temple of God, and that God's Spirit lives in you?
1 Corinthians 3:16

What do you think, does love exist in this world?

 

[URAVIP2ME]

What real thing is denoted by the word "God"?
Qualities like

omniscient,
omnipotent,
omnipresent,....─ in what form does that God exist?How could we tell whether we'd found a real one or not?.....​

1) The God of the Bible I find is Not omniscient in that God chooses Not to know our choices.
2) God is Not omnipotent because God can't Lie according to Titus 1:2 Hebrews 6:18.
3) God is Not omnipresent because God does Not exist in all places in Heaven or on Earth.
That also includes in humankind at the same time.
I say this because in the Bible God has a specific place of dwelling or home location. See 1 Kings 8:43.
Jesus places his God ' in the heavens ' according to the model prayer (... which art in Heaven ...).
After Jesus was resurrected then Jesus entered into Heaven itself to appear in front of his God - Hebrews 9:24.
So, God does Not dwell everywhere but resides in the ' spiritual heavens' independent of our physical universe.
​

 

[Ben Dhyan]

I don't know about you, but my parents (I have every reason to believe) existed before I was born; and my grandchildren will exist after I'm gone. I get my air, food, shelter, occupation, society ─ I even have access to forums on the net! ─ none of which are sourced internally to me, all of which instead are external and real.

I'm as one-with-reality as I'll ever be, right now.

But you asked what God is, you are ignoring the reality represented by God to talk about the reality as perceived by man in the fallen dualistic state, that of not understanding the oneness of God.

No, when your body is reverted to the elements, only then your soul will return to the oneness of God.

 

[blü 2]

God is: omniscient,
omnipotent,
omnipresent,
perfect,
eternal,
infinite,
spiritual,
supernatural,
immaterial

We are just human and have not experienced these things.

Nope. The ONLY place those things are found are as concepts and things imagined in individual brains.

None of them is a quality found in reality.

All our understanding takes place in our mind, but that is not just in our brain.

"Mind" is a word for a rather vaguely defined set of brain functions, like thought, reason, memory and language. The brain is a very complex biological device and wields all those things. To a certain extent you can watch the brain doing this in real time.

If God is not real because the revelation is internal then none of our understanding is real.

The revelation is internal for many things. But in each case they're only real if they have a counterpart with objective existence, something God notoriously lacks.

 

[blü 2]

Seems like we have different understanding but thats ok

Well put!

 

[blü 2]

Please allow me to posit God as being a posthuman technologically super advanced civilization living in base reality from where they have programmed simulated beings and simulated universes by some sort of powerful computer. Technologically advanced computers programmed by a posthuman technologically super advanced civilization might be performing an ancestral simulation whereby the actions of the posthuman technologically super advanced civilization ancestors' brain neurons are being realistically simulated along with the brain's sensory input having enough accuracy to convince each simulated character that he/she is real.

Indications we might be living in a simulated reality:

1. A particle passing through a double-slit behaves as a wave causing an interference pattern when unobserved, but this same particle doesn't create an interference pattern when its path of travel can be determined by an observer. This collapse of the wave-function could be happening in order to save computational resources necessary for our simulated reality.

2. This mark of intelligence left in our genetic coding might be indicative of an intelligent designer, who may be responsible for the simulation of our reality. Our genetic code's creator has left this mathematical pattern in our genetic code conveying to me the symbol of an Egyptian triangle as well as the number 37 embedded in our genetic code.
Eight of the canonical amino acids can be sufficiently defined by the composition of their codon's first and second base nucleotides. The nucleon sum of these amino acids' side chains is 333 (=37 * 3 squared), the sun of their block nucleons (basic core structure) is 592 (=37 * 4 squared), and the sum of their total nucleons is 925 (=37 * 5 squared ). With 37 factored out, this results in 3 squared + 4 squared + 5 squared, which is representative of an Egyptian triangle.

3. Theoretical physicist Dr. S. James Gates Jr. claims that a certain string theory, super-symmetrical equations describing the nature and reality of our universe, contains embedded computer codes; these codes have digital data in the form of 0's and 1's identical to what makes web browsers function, and they're error-correct codes.

Do you have some photos handy?

 

[blü 2]

Wouldn't it require you to be omniscient for you to state as a fact that nothing (else) in all of existence is omniscient?

How can God know there's nothing [he] doesn't know [he] doesn't know?

'Omniscience' is an imaginary quality, like omnipotence, perfection &c, and none of these qualities are found in entities with objective existence.

Unless you have exhaustive knowledge of the entire multiverse I don't know how you declare most of the things on your list don't exist anywhere in any way.

I'm very happy to deal with this empirically and inductively. Give me a satisfactory demonstration of a counterexample and I'll be first to say, "I was wrong."

But meanwhile I don't even know of any theoretical basis by which any of the qualities in the list could exist as qualities of a real entity. They're all from the realm of magic, the lands of imagination. Expelliamus!

 

[Suave]

Do you have some photos handy?

If I may please ask, How are we to distinguish between photos of objects situated in a virtual reality by comparison to photos of objects situated in base reality?

Because a very realistically simulated world might very well appear as how base reality appears, the simulated universe hypothesis is neither verifiable nor falsifiable.

 

[Left Coast]

How can God know there's nothing [he] doesn't know [he] doesn't know?

The question of 'how' is a different question than the question of 'if.' You can't know nothing in the universe is omniscient without yourself being omniscient - which is self-defeating.

'Omniscience' is an imaginary quality, like omnipotence, perfection &c, and none of these qualities are found in entities with objective existence.

How do you know that?

I'm very happy to deal with this empirically and inductively. Give me a satisfactory demonstration of a counterexample and I'll be first to say, "I was wrong."

Neither of those methods get you to knowledge unless you have exhaustive knowledge of the thing in question. I can know there are no eggs in my basket if I can see the entire basket and have the ability to verify that in fact there are no eggs in it. When it comes to all of reality, I don't know how you can possibly make that kind of declaration without being able to actually search of all reality to prove your negative.

 

[blü 2]

From history it seems to be anything or anyone that does cool stuff most people can’t.

I'm not sure it's the best example, but H G Wells' yarn Jimmy Goggles the God comes to mind.

 

[blü 2]

Where have you seen any "magical" reference in the Hebrew bible?

How about the magic words, "Let there be light!"?

or any spiritual idea for that matter.

There are a few. One is the ghost of Samuel, called up by the Lady of Endor.

The expansion of the universe is actually what we call reduction. It means that god "reduced" the light in order to allow the "space" we call universe.
Its very hard to explain without the background and understanding of other terms.
Also, As God is non-spatial, the concept of space doesn't really apply to it.

There's the problem then ─ reality is spatial, and a non-spatial realm is a contradiction in terms, existing only as a concept in an individual brain.

 

[blü 2]

That is the position one may hold. I think it goes beyond our brains. Like the person who is clinically dead but sees his body looking from above.

We can now produce OOBEs at will in the lab, it's reported.

And you may be aware of a well-known experiment in a British hospital where signs were left on top of furniture and fittings where they could only be seen by looking down from the ceiling ─ an echo of them is reported >here<. I'm not aware of any experiment that has shown out of body experiences are "real", such that the subject returned from the experience with new remote information about reality.

For me, personal experience is another way of confirming (though that can be subjective) but valid for me.

Again, my respects.

 

[blü 2]

Too loaded. Also is a decomposition. It fundamentally will not work.

No, it doesn't seem to, does it. That's my point.

 

[blü 2]

Perhaps you might try abandoning the false (I would say) distinction between the self and the world outside. The self and the world beyond it are one, though the ego is pretty heavily invested in convincing us otherwise.

I don't see how that can be correct. We have our sense of self, brain and body (sometimes mainly brain), and we have the realm external to that where we get our air, water, food, shelter, society and so on. I'm not present where you are and you're not present where I am, for example.

Then you might suspend the judgement whereby the abstract is of less value than the tangible - after all, abstractions have all sorts of practical applications in the world you consider to be the “real” one.

I'm very aware of how language works, and how the brain uses abstractions ─ love, justice, corruption &c ─ all the time. But these are evolved phenomena, ways the self deals with the external.

In my experience, the more one demands empirical evidence for the existence of an underlying creative intelligence, let alone a loving God with a concern for all living things, the further one feels from what is actually very close at hand.

Then I wish you well of it.

 

[blü 2]

Something created by the subconscious in some people's minds.
Even if something exists which could be called God, that's all anybody has, IMO.
At best an idea, at worst an antonymous entity created by the subconscious mind which haunts you.

Sounds fair!

 

[blü 2]

How do you know that?

From my experience of reality and from my understanding of how reality works.

But if I'm wrong, just give me a satisfactory demonstration of a counterexample and I'll thank you.

Bible tells about God that He is love, spirit and dwells in people.

That is, there's no version of God that has objective existence, no?

What do you think, does love exist in this world?

Yes, the biochemicals that produce our human emotions, including love and bonding, are remarkable. Personally, I wouldn't be without them ─ testosterone, adrenaline, oxytocin, a long list.

 

[Segev Moran]

How about the magic words, "Let there be light!"?

Lol. It doesn't describe magic, rather motion, sound and emergence.
The idea of speech is the emergence of words by movement of air.
This is why it is "spoken" and not other verbs.
The word אמר means "said", but it is also means "evolve" in Hebrew. evolve in the sense of becoming more or "next phase".
So when the term God said... actually means God cause something the emerge out if something.
This is different from the word "ברא" which means emerge from nothing.

There are a few. One is the ghost of Samuel, called up by the Lady of Endor.

Actually, God clearly instructs us that these are not things one should trust or do.

אַל תִּפְֿנוּ אֶל הָאֹבֹת וְאֶל הַיִּדְּעֹנִים אַל תְּבַֿקְשׁוּ לְטָמְאָה בָֿהֶם אֲנִי יְהוָה אֱלֹהֵיכֶֿם.

Translation:

Do not turn to those "wizards" and the "Knowers". Do not ask for their "impure" to stick to you. I am Y your God.
The word "impure" is a bit misleading.
The word "טמא" means that something is contaminated and is not worthy of eating/using.

There's the problem then ─ reality is spatial
, and a non-spatial realm is a contradiction in terms, existing only as a concept in an individual brain.

That's not true actually.
Its like saying hot cannot be in cold because they are contradicting terms.

We are a spatial universe existing in a non-spatial vacuum.
Our space is constantly expanding inside a potentially infinite vacuum.

 

[blü 2]

1) The God of the Bible I find is Not omniscient in that God chooses Not to know our choices.

No, being omniscient, [he]'d have known our choices since back before [he] created the universe.

But at a practical level, if we can solve the problem of the manner in which God exists, [his] not being omniscient will explain a great deal.

2) God is Not omnipotent because God can't Lie according to Titus 1:2 Hebrews 6:18.

God says [he] can and does lie eg ─

1 Kings 22:23 Now, therefore, behold, the Lord has put a lying spirit in the mouth of all these your prophets; the Lord has spoken evil concerning you.”

Ezekiel 14:9 And if the prophet be deceived and speak a word, I, the Lord, have deceived that prophet​

But an omnipotent being can't share the same reality with another omnipotent being, so God can't make an accurate copy of [him]self.

After Jesus was resurrected then Jesus entered into Heaven itself to appear in front of his God - Hebrews 9:24.

So, God does Not dwell everywhere but resides in the ' spiritual heavens' independent of our physical universe.​

That is, God doesn't exist in reality, can't be found there, but only in imagination.​

 

[blü 2]

But you asked what God is, you are ignoring the reality represented by God to talk about the reality as perceived by man in the fallen dualistic state, that of not understanding the oneness of God.

In other words you agree that God isn't present in reality, and accordingly is not a real entity.The only other way [he] can exist is as a concept or thing imagined in an individual brain.

No, when your body is reverted to the elements, only then your soul will return to the oneness of God.

The soul is a supernatural entity. If only it weighed in at 21 grams (or whatever the number was) we'd have something potentially real to talk about.