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What is God's highest priority?

Trailblazer

Veteran Member
Where in the Bible does it say in authoritative sources, from which I mean Prophets or Christ, that we are born in enmity with God? Where from the same that that separation would be eternal? Would the separation be absolute, by which I mean completely black, with no grey people in between? Either heaven (complete union with God) or hell (complete separation from God)? I hope not. That would make no sense to me. I also don't believe in eternal separation.
The belief that Christians hold, that we are born in enmity with God, all goes back to the story of Adam and Eve, but I am sure you already know that.

It was because of that 'original sin', disobeying God by eating the fruit from the tree, that Christ had to die on the cross to atone for the sin that all humans inherited from Adam and Eve, and it was the cross sacrifice that restored our relationship with God.

Yes, that separation is eternal, completely black, for people do not believe that Christ died on the cross to atone for their sins, or so Christians believe. ;)
 

Trailblazer

Veteran Member
I have recently begun to read essays written by Edward Reaugh Smith on Rudolf Steiner's Anthropology and though there has been little to make me go "hmmm?", there is quite a bit that just makes me think. In short, similarly to Bahaullah speaking of the need of fresh light, Steiner spoke of avatars of God. Condensing a great deal of reading down to my take-away on this aspect, Steiner presents Noah, Moses, Melchizedek, and Jesus as these avatars "sent" as "a physical body for the blessing and progress of all human beings." To look at the definition of Christ as being an anointed one, why couldn't we be blessed with more than one? One does not replace another, but rather carries out the mission appointed to his time. From what little I know of Baha-i, it makes perfect sense to me that Bahaullah's timing has just begun. He and Steiner are from the same era, IIRC. It's in God's hands -- His will be done.
Indeed, why couldn't we be blessed with more than one? One does not replace another, but rather carries out the mission appointed to his time.

Baha’u’llah warned us never to make any distinction between any of the Messengers of God (who He referred to as the Manifestations of His Cause in the passage below) because they all arise to proclaim the same religion, since there is only one eternal religion of God. Baha’u’llah wrote that the works and acts of all the Messengers of God were all ordained by God, a reflection of His Will and Purpose, meaning that all the religions are equally true and all the Messengers are equal in stature.

"Beware, O believers in the Unity of God, lest ye be tempted to make any distinction between any of the Manifestations of His Cause, or to discriminate against the signs that have accompanied and proclaimed their Revelation. This indeed is the true meaning of Divine Unity, if ye be of them that apprehend and believe this truth. Be ye assured, moreover, that the works and acts of each and every one of these Manifestations of God, nay whatever pertaineth unto them, and whatsoever they may manifest in the future, are all ordained by God, and are a reflection of His Will and Purpose. Whoso maketh the slightest possible difference between their persons, their words, their messages, their acts and manners, hath indeed disbelieved in God, hath repudiated His signs, and betrayed the Cause of His Messengers.”
Gleanings From the Writings of Bahá’u’lláh, pp. 59-60

The reason the Messengers of God had a different mission and message is because the needs of humanity have been different in every age.

“The Purpose of the one true God, exalted be His glory, in revealing Himself unto men is to lay bare those gems that lie hidden within the mine of their true and inmost selves. That the divers communions of the earth, and the manifold systems of religious belief, should never be allowed to foster the feelings of animosity among men, is, in this Day, of the essence of the Faith of God and His Religion. These principles and laws, these firmly-established and mighty systems, have proceeded from one Source, and are the rays of one Light. That they differ one from another is to be attributed to the varying requirements of the ages in which they were promulgated.”
Gleanings From the Writings of Bahá’u’lláh, pp. 287-288
 

Trailblazer

Veteran Member
Do you know what Christ means?
What does Christ literally mean?

anointed one

Christ comes from the Greek word χριστός (chrīstós), meaning "anointed one". The word is derived from the Greek verb χρίω (chrī́ō), meaning "to anoint." In the Greek Septuagint, χριστός was a semantic loan used to translate the Hebrew מָשִׁיחַ (Mašíaḥ, messiah), meaning "[one who is] anointed"

Christ (title) - Wikipedia

 

Trailblazer

Veteran Member
First of all you are saying one thing in one post and something different in another. You said in a previous post, the Bible says "Christ" would return but not Jesus. My question is, do you what Christ means?
If you are referring to Jesus Christ, Baha'u'llah referred to Jesus as the Spirit of God.

“O kings of Christendom! Heard ye not the saying of Jesus, the Spirit of God, “I go away, and come again unto you”? Wherefore, then, did ye fail, when He did come again unto you in the clouds of heaven, to draw nigh unto Him, that ye might behold His face, and be of them that attained His Presence? In another passage He saith: “When He, the Spirit of Truth, is come, He will guide you into all truth.”
Gleanings From the Writings of Bahá’u’lláh, p. 246
Because in this Post you say Baha ullah was not another Christ, Do you mean he is not a Prophet like Jesus was, as you have claimed?
No, I do not mean that Baha'u'llah was not another Prophet like Jesus was.
Baha'u'llah was a Prophet, a Messenger of God, and the Comforter, which was the return of the Holy Spirit sent by God.

That is why Jesus said:

John 14:26 But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you.

John 16:7 Nevertheless I tell you the truth; It is expedient for you that I go away: for if I go not away, the Comforter will not come unto you; but if I depart, I will send him unto you.
And you obviously believe that another Christ is coming if it is not Baha u llah who is it? Has one come since Jesus and are there more coming?
No, I do not believe another man called Christ is coming. I believe that Baha'u'llah was the return of Christ promised in the Bible because He was the return of the Holy Spirit sent by God.
And you keep saying Christianity has fulfilled it's purpose, according to your definition what is (or was) it's purpose?
From a Baha’i perspective, religion is associated with social evolution.

“The Revelation associated with the Faith of Jesus Christ focused attention primarily on the redemption of the individual and the molding of his conduct, and stressed, as its central theme, the necessity of inculcating a high standard of morality and discipline into man, as the fundamental unit in human society.” The Promised Day Is Come, p. 119

From: Religion and Social Evolution

From a spiritual perspective the following quote explains what Jesus did for humanity.

“Jesus created a power of perceiving God which was new, and in order that it might operate clearly, had to cleanse the spirit of man from all worldly encumbrances. Virtue becomes detachment from the world, sin attachment to it. Jesus demanded this sacrifice — losing the life of the world for the life of the spirit, but He made God so attractive, so joyous, loving, powerful, that the Christian was ready to abandon all for Him, and for Christ Who revealed Him.

Thus the tremendous and fearsome Deity of the Old Testament wins men's hearts in the New. We read of the poor sparrow whose fall was watched by a loving Father, of the flower of the field and the bird of the air, and the tenderest stories that ever have won men's hearts — the prodigal son and the good Samaritan.

A new quality of love now characterizes the Kingdom, a love which united the believers not only with God, but with each other, and even extended to enemies and "them that hate you." "That ye love one another" became the test of Christian discipleship.

The supreme ideal of this love was, as shown in John, the relationship between Christ and the Father, and though revealed in the most simple language and the plainest words, stands as the highest expression of Divine love in scripture.

The result was that Jesus' teachings let loose upon the soul and heart of man a spiritual power such as never had been known in the world before. Historians have said that Jesus' teaching has done more to elevate human nature and civilization than all the laws of legislators and the disquisitions of philosophers combined. By releasing religious energies measured to the needs of the hour and the people, He opened the way to the Kingdom of God in men's hearts. New affections and aspirations, hopes and loyalties were brought into being and the whole moral world was carried into a state of flux.”

From: Christ and Baha'u'llah, Jesus Christ, Herald of the Kingdom

George Townshend, the author of the book Christ and Baha'u'llah was a dignitary of the Anglican Church in Ireland and a Canon of St. Patrick’s Cathedral, Dublin who resigned his Orders after forty years to proclaim his conviction that Christ has come again to an unheeding world in the person of Baha’u’llah.
 

Truthseeker

Non-debating member when I can help myself
The belief that Christians hold, that we are born in enmity with God, all goes back to the story of Adam and Eve, but I am sure you already know that.
Well, not quite. It goes back to Paul saying something about Adam and Eve for which people have different interpretations. It was St. Augustine in the early 5th century that came up the most common interpretation of that.

In Wikipedia: This belief (original sin) began to emerge in the 3rd century, but only became fully formed with the writings of Augustine of Hippo (354–430 AD), who was the first author to use the phrase "original sin" (Latin: peccatum originale).

According to Wikipedia Psalms 51:5 was also involved. "I was brought forth in iniquity, and in sin did my mother conceive me".
 

Truthseeker

Non-debating member when I can help myself
John 16:7 Nevertheless I tell you the truth; It is expedient for you that I go away: for if I go not away, the Comforter will not come unto you; but if I depart, I will send him unto you.
Interesting one. The Holy Spirit had already been in operation with the disciples when they did "removal of demons" and faith healing while Christ was alive, I would think. The Holy Spirit was not sent to them only after Christ died, or departed. Do you agree @Saved by grace 2?
 
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Interesting one. The Holy Spirit had already been in operation with the disciples when they did "removal of demons" and faith healing while Christ was alive, I would think. The Holy Spirit was not sent to them only after Christ died, or departed. Do you agree @Saved by grace 2?
My apologies, I just got around to looking at posts.

This is a very good question, The work and filling of the Holy Spirit has been seen in men and women since the beginning.
Faith has been the one constant in all of those, that has enabled the Holy Spirit to empower them to prophesy, call fire down, stop the rain, live a Holy righteous life unto God, part the seas, etc.
As for the Apostles, Jesus sent them out (specific task) and as the scriptures say HE gave them authority!

Luke 9:1-2
1 Then he called his twelve disciples together, and gave them power and authority over all devils, and to cure diseases.
2 Then he sent them out to tell everyone about the Kingdom of God and to heal the sick.

In regard to what Jesus did at the cross, this why he then was able to promise that the Holy Spirit would come and live in dwell in us. It is because the sacrifice he made for all mankind would be sufficient to cleanse us and prepare us to receive the indwelling power of the Spirit not just for a specific time or event but eternally. But as Faith was required in those before Christ Jesus, Faith is equally important after his resurrection for any and all who would believe in HIM
John 16:7 Nevertheless I tell you the truth; It is expedient for you that I go away: for if I go not away, the Comforter will not come unto you; but if I depart, I will send him unto you.

Please notice per the scriptures, Jesus gave the apostles authority, and Jesus sends the Holy Spiirt to the hearts of those who accept Jesus as Lord, and are Born again........Only God has this Authority!
 

Trailblazer

Veteran Member
But as Faith was required in those before Christ Jesus, Faith is equally important after his resurrection for any and all who would believe in HIM
John 16:7 Nevertheless I tell you the truth; It is expedient for you that I go away: for if I go not away, the Comforter will not come unto you; but if I depart, I will send him unto you.

Please notice per the scriptures, Jesus gave the apostles authority, and Jesus sends the Holy Spiirt to the hearts of those who accept Jesus as Lord, and are Born again........Only God has this Authority!
I don't know what you think that John 16:7 means. What/who you think the Comforter was and when do you think it came?
Baha'is believe that Baha'u'llah was the Comforter who brought the Holy Spirit. Jesus had to go away to heaven so He could send the Comforter from the Father who is in heaven.

John 14:26 But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you.
 

URAVIP2ME

Veteran Member
I don't know what you think that John 16:7 means. What/who you think the Comforter was and when do you think it came?
Baha'is believe that Baha'u'llah was the Comforter who brought the Holy Spirit. Jesus had to go away to heaven so He could send the Comforter from the Father who is in heaven.
John 14:26 But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you.
First, I find that the word 'ghost' is more in connection to an apparition than a spirit person.
Thus, a reason why Noah Webster replaced ghost with holy spirit, and the apostles were never filled with a ghost person.
Isaiah 40:13 asks who has directed the spirit of the LORD (KJV) ?
God sends forth His spirit - Psalm 104:30
His spirit, God's spirit, is a genderless 'it' according to Numbers 11:17,25 (KJV)
Just as our spirit is also a neuter 'it' as found at Ecclesiastes 12:7 B.
So, as a Power Plant grid is impersonal but power from the Power Plant grid exerts power to accomplish things.
Thus, when God sends forth His spirit it comforts and helps us to accomplish God's will, His purpose for us.
 
If you are referring to Jesus Christ, Baha'u'llah referred to Jesus as the Spirit of God.

“O kings of Christendom! Heard ye not the saying of Jesus, the Spirit of God, “I go away, and come again unto you”? Wherefore, then, did ye fail, when He did come again unto you in the clouds of heaven, to draw nigh unto Him, that ye might behold His face, and be of them that attained His Presence? In another passage He saith: “When He, the Spirit of Truth, is come, He will guide you into all truth.”
I'm not sure how to answer this exactly, but I will always refer to scripture in doing so. The scriptures make it clear, that Jesus took on human form Philippians 2:6-11. I have already provided these scriptures. and in 2 John 1:7 John warns us to be careful of those who don't accept that Jesus came in the flesh. When he rose form the dead, and Thomas doubted his resurrection , he appeared to Thomas and the others, and to make sure Thomas KNEW Jesus had physically risen jesus told him to touch his side where he was pierced , to stop doubting and Believe!

So, I am not sure where you (biblically speaking) have come to any conclusion that Jesus simply came as the Spirit of God. Is that what you are saying?
The Scripture quote you gave, was directly referring to the Holy Spirit, that would be given to any who believed that Jesus paid for our sins and accepted him as Lord, for the forgiveness of sins. This makes us living Temples (dwelling places for the Holy Spirit to reside) The (Holy) Spirit of God is the working, active power of God in the World, whether it is in the hearts of men, women or the active power that brings forth healing, and miracles. Example When the woman with the issue of Blood touched the cloak of Jesus, the scriptures say he knew it, because. power had gone out of him
Luke 8:46
But Jesus said, “Someone touched me; I know that power has gone out from me.
Thus the tremendous and fearsome Deity of the Old Testament wins men's hearts in the New. We read of the poor sparrow whose fall was watched by a loving Father, of the flower of the field and the bird of the air, and the tenderest stories that ever have won men's hearts — the prodigal son and the good Samaritan.

A new quality of love now characterizes the Kingdom, a love which united the believers not only with God, but with each other, and even extended to enemies and "them that hate you." "That ye love one another" became the test of Christian discipleship.

The supreme ideal of this love was, as shown in John, the relationship between Christ and the Father, and though revealed in the most simple language and the plainest words, stands as the highest expression of Divine love in scripture.

The result was that Jesus' teachings let loose upon the soul and heart of man a spiritual power such as never had been known in the world before. Historians have said that Jesus' teaching has done more to elevate human nature and civilization than all the laws of legislators and the disquisitions of philosophers combined. By releasing religious energies measured to the needs of the hour and the people, He opened the way to the Kingdom of God in men's hearts. New affections and aspirations, hopes and loyalties were brought into being and the whole moral world was carried into a state of flux.”

This fearsome Deity, Yahweh is the same God in the New testament. But until Jesus paved the way for us to be restored back to the Father, that we may enjoy the relationship he has longed to have with us since the fall, this Love and protection was only seen in a few men and women who truly put their faith in him. There have been tremendous exceptions The Father made thru out Generations, but the Full outpouring of the Holy Spirit was only made available to all mankind when Jesus Christ died on the cross and rose from the dead.
But I added all you said because this is for the most part are truths, already written in Scripture, and is most beautiful in what OUR GOD HAS DONE FOR US thru Jesus Christ
 

URAVIP2ME

Veteran Member
I don't know what you think that John 16:7 means. ...............................................................................
John 14:26 But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you.
In the Greek a neuter 'it' can be referred to as a 'he' or a 'him' but remain genderless.
Even in English we speak of a car or a ship as a 'she' but they remain a neuter 'it'.
Even our spirit is a neuter 'it' according to Ecclesiastes 12:7 B ; Psalm 104:29 B
When God sends forth His spirit (Psalm 104:30) things happen.
It helps us accomplish His will - John 14:16,26; John 15:26; Acts 2:32-33
 
Baha'is believe that Baha'u'llah was the Comforter who brought the Holy Spirit. Jesus had to go away to heaven so He could send the Comforter from the Father who is in heaven.
This is completely in opposition to Scripture and does not in any way refer to some future time 1800 years later.

Let's look at more of the chapter and see what it says. And by the way Jesus left (physically) the earth 2,000 years ago

John 16
7 Nevertheless I tell you the truth; It is expedient for you that I go away: for if I go not away, the Comforter will not come unto you; but if I depart, I will send him unto you.

8 And when he is come, he will reprove the world of sin, and of righteousness, and of judgment:

9 Of sin, because they believe not on me;

10 Of righteousness, because I go to my Father, and ye see me no more;

11 Of judgment, because the prince of this world is judged.

12 I have yet many things to say unto you, but ye cannot bear them now.

13 Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth: for he shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear, that shall he speak: and he will shew you things to come.


These entire verses speak of Jesus leaving to go back to the Father, (specifically dying, rising from the dead then after 40 days telling his disciples to wait in Jerusalem for the POWER of the Holy Spirit to come upon them.

He then goes up into the clouds and>>>>>>>>>>>

After 10 days this happened. Exactly 50 days after his resurrection. This falls exactly inline with Moses with fulfilling what happened at Mount Sinai. When after 50 days of being delivered from Egypt the Israelites receive the Ten Commandments. (PENTECOST). By the way, Jesus fulfilled the old testament natural (physical event) of the PASSOVER, the command to put Blood on the doorpost of their house so that when the Angel of death came to kill the firstborn, it would SEE THE BLOOD and pass by......PASSOVER

1,500 years later, After Jesus rose from the dead (Delivered us from sin), and poured out his BLOOD for us that if we would accept his forgiveness and receive him as Lord, when judgement Day comes to ALL Mankind, God will see the BLOOD over the doors of our Hearts and PASSOVER. Jesus then sends the LAWGIVER into the hearts of all that believe in his death, burial and resurrection, and we are now living the fulfilled promise according to Joel 2:28 and what Peters first sermon was after being Baptized and empowered by the Promised Holy Spirit!

Acts 2:14-
Then Peter stood up with the Eleven, raised his voice and addressed the crowd: “Fellow Jews and all of you who live in Jerusalem, let me explain this to you; listen carefully to what I say. 15 These people are not drunk, as you suppose. It’s only nine in the morning! 16 No, this is what was spoken by the prophet Joel:

17 “‘In the last days, God says,
I will pour out my Spirit on all people.
Your sons and daughters will prophesy,
your young men will see visions,
your old men will dream dreams.
18 Even on my servants, both men and women,
I will pour out my Spirit in those days,
and they will prophesy.

19 I will show wonders in the heavens above
and signs on the earth below,
blood and fire and billows of smoke.
20 The sun will be turned to darkness
and the moon to blood
before the coming of the great and glorious day of the Lord.
21 And everyone who calls
on the name of the Lord will be saved.’
[c]
22 “Fellow Israelites, listen to this: Jesus of Nazareth was a man accredited by God to you by miracles, wonders and signs, which God did among you through him, as you yourselves know. 23 This man was handed over to you by God’s deliberate plan and foreknowledge; and you, with the help of wicked men,[d] put him to death by nailing him to the cross. 24 But God raised him from the dead, freeing him from the agony of death, because it was impossible for death to keep its hold on him. 25 David said about him:

“‘I saw the Lord always before me.
Because he is at my right hand,
I will not be shaken.
26 Therefore my heart is glad and my tongue rejoices;
my body also will rest in hope,
27 because you will not abandon me to the realm of the dead,
you will not let your holy one see decay.
28 You have made known to me the paths of life;
you will fill me with joy in your presence.’[e]
29 “Fellow Israelites, I can tell you confidently that the patriarch David died and was buried, and his tomb is here to this day. 30 But he was a prophet and knew that God had promised him on oath that he would place one of his descendants on his throne. 31 Seeing what was to come, he spoke of the resurrection of the Messiah,(CHRIST) that he was not abandoned to the realm of the dead, nor did his body see decay. 32 God has raised this Jesus to life, and we are all witnesses of it. 33 Exalted to the right hand of God, he has received from the Father the promised Holy Spirit and has poured out what you now see and hear. 34 For David did not ascend to heaven, and yet he said,

“‘The Lord (Father) said to my Lord: (Jesus, Son)
“Sit at my right hand
35 until I make your enemies
a footstool for your feet.”’[f]
36 “Therefore let all Israel be assured of this: God has made this Jesus, whom you crucified, both Lord and Messiah.”

37 When the people heard this, they were cut to the heart and said to Peter and the other apostles, “Brothers, what shall we do?”

38 Peter replied, “Repent and be baptized, every one of you, in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins. And you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit. 39 The promise is for you and your children and for all who are far off—for all whom the Lord our God will call.”
 
In the Greek a neuter 'it' can be referred to as a 'he' or a 'him' but remain genderless.
Even in English we speak of a car or a ship as a 'she' but they remain a neuter 'it'.
Even our spirit is a neuter 'it' according to Ecclesiastes 12:7 B ; Psalm 104:29 B
When God sends forth His spirit (Psalm 104:30) things happen.
It helps us accomplish His will - John 14:16,26; John 15:26; Acts 2:32-33
What are you saying the Holy Spirit is not a person, Like some power but not as we Christians Believe ,the third person of the Godhead?
 

Trailblazer

Veteran Member
I'm not sure how to answer this exactly, but I will always refer to scripture in doing so. The scriptures make it clear, that Jesus took on human form Philippians 2:6-11. I have already provided these scriptures. and in 2 John 1:7 John warns us to be careful of those who don't accept that Jesus came in the flesh.
I do not deny that Jesus came in the flesh. I believe that.
When he rose form the dead, and Thomas doubted his resurrection , he appeared to Thomas and the others, and to make sure Thomas KNEW Jesus had physically risen jesus told him to touch his side where he was pierced , to stop doubting and Believe!
I do not believe that the physical body of Jesus rose from the dead. If Jesus rose, He rose in a spiritual body.

John 20:27
New International Version
Then he said to Thomas, “Put your finger here; see my hands. Reach out your hand and put it into my side. Stop doubting and believe.”

I know what most Christians believe but one verse in the entire NT does not support Jesus rising in a physical body. Jesus only said that to Thomas so Thomas would stop doubting that Jesus was still alive, and Jesus was still alive in a spiritual body. Jesus performed so many miracles, so you don't think that Jesus could make His spiritual body look and feel physical?

1 Corinthians 15
New Living Translation

The Resurrection Body

35 But someone may ask, “How will the dead be raised?
What kind of bodies will they have?”

40 There are also bodies in the heavens and bodies on the earth. The glory of the heavenly bodies is different from the glory of the earthly bodies. 41 The sun has one kind of glory, while the moon and stars each have another kind. And even the stars differ from each other in their glory.

42 It is the same way with the resurrection of the dead. Our earthly bodies are planted in the ground when we die, but they will be raised to live forever. 43 Our bodies are buried in brokenness, but they will be raised in glory. They are buried in weakness, but they will be raised in strength. 44 They are buried as natural human bodies, but they will be raised as spiritual bodies. For just as there are natural bodies, there are also spiritual bodies.

50 What I am saying, dear brothers and sisters, is that our physical bodies cannot inherit the Kingdom of God. These dying bodies cannot inherit what will last forever.

51 But let me reveal to you a wonderful secret. We will not all die, but we will all be transformed!
So, I am not sure where you (biblically speaking) have come to any conclusion that Jesus simply came as the Spirit of God. Is that what you are saying?
No, that is not what I am saying. I am saying that Jesus was the Spirit of God, that was the title given to Jesus by Baha'u'llah, not that He came to earth as a spirit. Jesus came in the flesh.
The Scripture quote you gave, was directly referring to the Holy Spirit, that would be given to any who believed that Jesus paid for our sins and accepted him as Lord, for the forgiveness of sins. This makes us living Temples (dwelling places for the Holy Spirit to reside) The (Holy) Spirit of God is the working, active power of God in the World, whether it is in the hearts of men, women or the active power that brings forth healing, and miracles. Example When the woman with the issue of Blood touched the cloak of Jesus, the scriptures say he knew it, because. power had gone out of him
Luke 8:46
But Jesus said, “Someone touched me; I know that power has gone out from me.
Just to clarify what I believe about the Holy Spirit, if I haven't already. The Holy Spirit is the Bounty of God that emanated from Jesus, who was a Manifestations of God, so the Holy Spirit went out from Jesus when Jesus touched someone. I do not believe that the Holy Spirit literally lives inside of bodies but rather it has a direct connection to their soul through the mind.

Question.—What is the Holy Spirit?

Answer.—The Holy Spirit is the Bounty of God and the luminous rays which emanate from the Manifestations; for the focus of the rays of the Sun of Reality was Christ, and from this glorious focus, which is the Reality of Christ, the Bounty of God reflected upon the other mirrors which were the reality of the Apostles. The descent of the Holy Spirit upon the Apostles signifies that the glorious divine bounties reflected and appeared in their reality. Moreover, entrance and exit, descent and ascent, are characteristics of bodies and not of spirits—that is to say, sensible realities enter and come forth, but intellectual subtleties and mental realities, such as intelligence, love, knowledge, imagination and thought, do not enter, nor come forth, nor descend, but rather they have direct connection.

Some Answered Questions, p. 108

25: THE HOLY SPIRIT
This fearsome Deity, Yahweh is the same God in the New testament. But until Jesus paved the way for us to be restored back to the Father, that we may enjoy the relationship he has longed to have with us since the fall, this Love and protection was only seen in a few men and women who truly put their faith in him. There have been tremendous exceptions The Father made thru out Generations, but the Full outpouring of the Holy Spirit was only made available to all mankind when Jesus Christ died on the cross and rose from the dead.
But I added all you said because this is for the most part are truths, already written in Scripture, and is most beautiful in what OUR GOD HAS DONE FOR US thru Jesus Christ
Baha'is do not believe in The Fall that was associated with an original sin of Adam and Eve since we believe that story was an allegory, not a true story.

However, we do believe that humanity was fallen and needed Jesus to restore us back to God. What Baha’is believe regarding how Adam brought sin into the world and how Christ saved us from that sin is explained in this chapter:
29: EXPLANATION OF VERSE TWENTY-TWO, CHAPTER FIFTEEN, OF THE FIRST EPISTLE OF ST. PAUL TO THE CORINTHIANS

Baha'is believe that the Full outpouring of the Holy Spirit was made available to all mankind when Jesus Christ died on the cross, but rising from the dead had nothing to do with how Jesus saved us from sin. Nobody needs to believe that Jesus rose from the dead in order to believe what Jesus did on the cross, and many Christians no longer believe that. That was like an add-on to the Bible.
 

Trailblazer

Veteran Member
This is completely in opposition to Scripture and does not in any way refer to some future time 1800 years later.

Let's look at more of the chapter and see what it says. And by the way Jesus left (physically) the earth 2,000 years ago

John 16
7 Nevertheless I tell you the truth; It is expedient for you that I go away: for if I go not away, the Comforter will not come unto you; but if I depart, I will send him unto you.

8 And when he is come, he will reprove the world of sin, and of righteousness, and of judgment:

9 Of sin, because they believe not on me;

10 Of righteousness, because I go to my Father, and ye see me no more;

11 Of judgment, because the prince of this world is judged.

12 I have yet many things to say unto you, but ye cannot bear them now.

13 Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth: for he shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear, that shall he speak: and he will shew you things to come.


These entire verses speak of Jesus leaving to go back to the Father, (specifically dying, rising from the dead then after 40 days telling his disciples to wait in Jerusalem for the POWER of the Holy Spirit to come upon them.
I already know what Christians believe, as I have been posting to them on forums continuously for 10 years.
You are not going to convince me of the Christian beliefs any more than I am going to convince you of the Baha'i beliefs, no matter how many verses you post.

I believe that the Comforter and the Spirit of Truth refer to Baha'u'llah because:

1) The correct interpretation of scriptures support that belief, and
2) Baha'u'llah claimed to be the Comforter and the Spirit of Truth, and
3) It makes sense to me.

John 16
7 Nevertheless I tell you the truth; It is expedient for you that I go away: for if I go not away, the Comforter will not come unto you; but if I depart, I will send him unto you.

8 And when he is come, he will reprove the world of sin, and of righteousness, and of judgment:

9 Of sin, because they believe not on me;

10 Of righteousness, because I go to my Father, and ye see me no more;

11 Of judgment, because the prince of this world is judged.

12 I have yet many things to say unto you, but ye cannot bear them now.

13 Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth: for he shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear, that shall he speak: and he will shew you things to come.

John 14, 15 and 16 says that the Comforter/Spirit of truth will do all these things on the list below, but it makes no sense that the Holy Spirit could do the those things. Only a man who brought the Holy Spirit could do those things by speaking and writing.
  • Teach you all things
  • Call to remembrance what Jesus said
  • Testify of Jesus
  • Glorify Jesus, receive of Jesus, and shew it unto you
  • Guide you into all truth
  • Speak what He hears and shew you things to come
  • Reprove the world of sin, and of righteousness, and of judgment
You said: These entire verses speak of Jesus leaving to go back to the Father, (specifically dying, rising from the dead then after 40 days telling his disciples to wait in Jerusalem for the POWER of the Holy Spirit to come upon them.

We know that the things on bulleted list above [that Christians claim that the Holy Spirit did during the lifetime of the disciples] did not happen during their lifetimes. You cannot say something happened that did not happen. Those things were not supposed to happen until Christ returned. Baha’u’llah has already done all those things and the rest will happen during His dispensation as the result of His coming.

John 16:14 He shall glorify me: for he shall receive of mine, and shall shew it unto you.

John 15:26 But when the Comforter is come, whom I will send unto you from the Father, even the Spirit of truth, which proceedeth from the Father, he shall testify of me:

Referring to Jesus as the Son of Man, Baha’u’llah glorified Jesus and testified of Jesus in His Writings.
Referring to Jesus as the Son of Man, Baha’u’llah wrote:

“We testify that when He came into the world, He shed the splendor of His glory upon all created things. Through Him the leper recovered from the leprosy of perversity and ignorance. Through Him, the unchaste and wayward were healed. Through His power, born of Almighty God, the eyes of the blind were opened, and the soul of the sinner sanctified.” Gleanings From the Writings of Bahá’u’lláh, p. 86
 

Truthseeker

Non-debating member when I can help myself
In the Greek a neuter 'it' can be referred to as a 'he' or a 'him' but remain genderless.
Even in English we speak of a car or a ship as a 'she' but they remain a neuter 'it'.
Even our spirit is a neuter 'it' according to Ecclesiastes 12:7 B ; Psalm 104:29 B
When God sends forth His spirit (Psalm 104:30) things happen.
It helps us accomplish His will - John 14:16,26; John 15:26; Acts 2:32-33
You do realize that Jesus didn't speak in Greek most of the time, though all the Gospels were written in Greek I hope. He didn't speak Hebrew except for instance when he read from Isaiah. which is what the Old Testament was written in. He spoke Aramaic most of the time. This is similar to Jewish people speaking Yiddish today. So what Jesus said here was was in Aramaic, translated to Greek.

Language of Jesus - Wikipedia

There exists a consensus among scholars that the language of Jesus and his disciples was Aramaic.[1][2] Aramaic was the common language of Judea in the first century AD. The villages of Nazareth and Capernaum in Galilee, where Jesus spent most of his time, were Aramaic-speaking communities.[3] Jesus likely spoke a Galilean variant of the language, distinguishable from that of Jerusalem.[4] Based on the symbolic renaming or nicknaming of some of his apostles it is also likely that Jesus and at least one of his apostles knew enough Koine Greek to converse with those not native to Judea. It is reasonable to assume that Jesus was well versed in Hebrew for religious purposes.
 
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Truthseeker

Non-debating member when I can help myself
  • Teach you all things
  • Call to remembrance what Jesus said
  • Testify of Jesus
  • Glorify Jesus, receive of Jesus, and shew it unto you
  • Guide you into all truth
  • Speak what He hears and shew you things to come
  • Reprove the world of sin, and of righteousness, and of judgment
You said: These entire verses speak of Jesus leaving to go back to the Father, (specifically dying, rising from the dead then after 40 days telling his disciples to wait in Jerusalem for the POWER of the Holy Spirit to come upon them.
I point out that item in the bulleted list where he speaks what he hears. Can a spirit speak or hear? Were the Christians guided into all truth back then? I don't know about you, but it doesn't look like that to me. Take notice @Saved by grace 2.

I don't expect any Christian to believe me, but when I have experienced the Holy Spirit it didn't speak.
 

Trailblazer

Veteran Member
I point out that item in the bulleted list where he speaks what he hears. Can a spirit speak or hear? Were the Christians guided into all truth back then? I don't know about you, but it doesn't look like that to me. Take notice @Saved by grace 2.

I don't expect any Christian to believe me, but when I have experienced the Holy Spirit it didn't speak.
The Holy Spirit is not a person so it does not speak.
That is how we know it did not do all those things on my bulleted list.
Christians don't even bother tho think. They just believe what they have been taught to believe by the church.
  • Teach you all things
  • Call to remembrance what Jesus said
  • Testify of Jesus
  • Glorify Jesus, receive of Jesus, and shew it unto you
  • Guide you into all truth
  • Speak what He hears and shew you things to come
  • Reprove the world of sin, and of righteousness, and of judgment
 

Truthseeker

Non-debating member when I can help myself
The Holy Spirit is not a person so it does not speak.
That is how we know it did not do all those things on my bulleted list.
Christians don't even bother tho think. They just believe what they have been taught to believe by the church.
  • Teach you all things
  • Call to remembrance what Jesus said
  • Testify of Jesus
  • Glorify Jesus, receive of Jesus, and shew it unto you
  • Guide you into all truth
  • Speak what He hears and shew you things to come
  • Reprove the world of sin, and of righteousness, and of judgment
I'm expecting an answer that the Holy Spirit speaks to them. I will say no more.
 
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