• Welcome to Religious Forums, a friendly forum to discuss all religions in a friendly surrounding.

    Your voice is missing! You will need to register to get access to the following site features:
    • Reply to discussions and create your own threads.
    • Our modern chat room. No add-ons or extensions required, just login and start chatting!
    • Access to private conversations with other members.

    We hope to see you as a part of our community soon!

What is God's highest priority?

Revelation is a revealing. A revealing about the happy future for Earth - Revelation 22:2; 21:4-5
From paradise lost in Eden to paradise regained for humble meek people - Psalms 37:9-11; 22:26; Matthew 5:5
Jesus coming to restore what was lost - 1st Corinthians 15:24-26; Isaiah 25:8; Isaiah chapter 35.
While I agree with everything you said, It should be emphasized especially to those who reject JESUS CHRIST as being the Return King of Kings who will judge the earth and establish an earthly Kingdom that:
Revelation 1:1 Clearly says THE REVELATION (Revealing, uncovering) OF JESUS CHRIST

Revelation 1:1-2
1 The Revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave unto him, to shew unto his servants things which must shortly come to pass; and he sent and signified it by his angel unto his servant John:
2. Who bare record of the word of God, and of the testimony of Jesus Christ, and of all things that he saw.
 

Trailblazer

Veteran Member
I want to make sure I don't jump to any conclusions based your claims, here. So correct me if I am wrong.

Jesus Christ who was born of a virgin, and died on the cross for all mankind, when after he arose from the grave he did not arise in a physical body, am I correct according to the Baha belief so far?
Yes, you are correct. Baha'is do not believe that Jesus rose in a physical body.
Actually, the Bible does not support such a belief, so if Jesus rose, he rose in a spiritual body, not in a physical body.

1 Corinthians 15
New Living Translation

The Resurrection Body

35 But someone may ask, “How will the dead be raised?
What kind of bodies will they have?”

40 There are also bodies in the heavens and bodies on the earth. The glory of the heavenly bodies is different from the glory of the earthly bodies. 41 The sun has one kind of glory, while the moon and stars each have another kind. And even the stars differ from each other in their glory.

42 It is the same way with the resurrection of the dead. Our earthly bodies are planted in the ground when we die, but they will be raised to live forever. 43 Our bodies are buried in brokenness, but they will be raised in glory. They are buried in weakness, but they will be raised in strength. 44 They are buried as natural human bodies, but they will be raised as spiritual bodies. For just as there are natural bodies, there are also spiritual bodies.

50 What I am saying, dear brothers and sisters, is that our physical bodies cannot inherit the Kingdom of God. These dying bodies cannot inherit what will last forever.

51 But let me reveal to you a wonderful secret. We will not all die, but we will all be transformed!

(Continued on next post)
 

Trailblazer

Veteran Member
@Saved by grace 2

Now, let's look at what an article on a Christian website says.

The resurrection of Jesus is a fundamental and essential doctrine of Christianity. The resurrection of Jesus is so important that without it Christianity is false. Paul said in 1 Cor. 15:14, “and if Christ has not been raised, then our preaching is vain, your faith also is vain.” Three verses later, in verse 17, he again says, “and if Christ has not been raised, your faith is worthless; you are still in your sins.” Though there are many subjects with which Christians may disagree and still be considered Christian, this is not one of them. To deny the resurrection of Jesus is to deny the heart of Christianity itself.

However, the problem in the resurrection isn’t so much in agreeing that Jesus rose but in how He rose. Unfortunately, cults attack the resurrection of Christ and reinterpret it in different ways thereby denying His physical resurrection. We must ask if Jesus rose from the dead in the very same body He died in, or did He rise in a spirit body that was not flesh and bones? The answer to this question is vital. It separates true Christians from false systems. Therefore, here is the correct doctrine of Christ’s resurrection; I consider it so important that it must be set off by itself as a statement of truth:

“Jesus rose from the dead in the very same physical body in which He died. This resurrected, physical body was a glorified, spiritual body. The spiritual body is not merely “spirit.” The spiritual body is the resurrected, glorified, physical body.”

The above statement is the correct doctrine of Scripture. As such, it stands against the Jehovah’s Witness and Shepherd’s Chapel groups that state that Jesus did not rise bodily but spiritually. Neither group seeks to deny the obvious biblical declaration of Christ’s resurrection, but they change the meaning of the resurrection so that it really didn’t happen. Did Jesus rise from the dead in the same physical body in which He died? Yes!

After the resurrection, Jesus was able to eat (Luke 24:42-43). He showed people His hands and feet with the nail prints in them (Luke 24:39; John 20:27), and people even grabbed His feet and worshipped Him (Matt. 28:9). As the reports of Jesus’ resurrection were spreading, Thomas, who was doubting the resurrection of Christ, said, “Unless I shall see in His hands the imprint of the nails, and put my finger into the place of the nails, and put my hand into His side, I will not believe.” (John 20:25). Later, Jesus appeared to Thomas and said to him, “Reach here your finger, and see My hands; and reach here your hand, and put it into My side; and be not unbelieving, but believing.” (John 20:27).

If Jesus’ body had not risen, then He would not have feet and hands with the same holes of the nails of the crucifixion. Consider the following verses as further proof that His very body was raised:


This article says:
“Jesus rose from the dead in the very same physical body in which He died. This resurrected, physical body was a glorified, spiritual body. The spiritual body is not merely “spirit.” The spiritual body is the resurrected, glorified, physical body.”

This article is correct in saying: The spiritual body is not merely “spirit.” A spiritual body is a body, not just spirit.
It is simply ANOTHER KIND of body that is not physical.

This article is incorrect in saying:
Jesus rose from the dead in the very same physical body in which He died.


This is completely contradicted by what it says in 1 Corinthians 15.

40 There are also bodies in the heavens and bodies on the earth. The glory of the heavenly bodies is different from the glory of the earthly bodies.

This article is incorrect in saying:
The spiritual body is the resurrected, glorified, physical body.


There is no such thing as a glorified physical body. That is a made up Christian doctrine.
There are only two kinds of bodies, physical bodies and spiritual bodies.
There is no such thing as a hybrid body that is BOTH physical and spiritual.

Do you want to believe what the Bible actually says, or do you want to believe a false Christian doctrine?

1 Corinthians 15:44 They are buried as natural human bodies, but they will be raised as spiritual bodies. For just as there are natural bodies, there are also spiritual bodies.

No matter which Bible translation you look at it says the same thing. Here are just a few examples.

KJ21
It is sown a natural body; it is raised a spiritual body. There is a natural body, and there is a spiritual body.

AMP
it is sown a natural body [mortal, suited to earth], it is raised a spiritual body [immortal, suited to heaven]. As surely as there is a physical body, there is also a spiritual body.

CEV
As surely as there are physical bodies, there are spiritual bodies. And our physical bodies will be changed into spiritual bodies.

DLNT
It is sown a natural body; it is raised a spiritual body. If there is a natural body, there is also a spiritual body.

DRA
It is sown a natural body, it shall rise a spiritual body. If there be a natural body, there is also a spiritual body, as it is written:

ERV
The body that is “planted” is a physical body. When it is raised, it will be a spiritual body. There is a physical body. So there is also a spiritual body.

EASY
What we bury in the ground is a human body. But the body that God raises up is a spiritual body. There is a human body that belongs to this earth. So there also has to be a spiritual body that belongs to heaven.

ESV
It is sown a natural body; it is raised a spiritual body. If there is a natural body, there is also a spiritual body.

GNT
When buried, it is a physical body; when raised, it will be a spiritual body. There is, of course, a physical body, so there has to be a spiritual body.

HCSB
sown a natural body, raised a spiritual body. If there is a natural body, there is also a spiritual body.

ICB
The body that is “planted” is a physical body. When it is raised, it is a spiritual body. There is a physical body. And there is also a spiritual body.

ISV
It is planted a physical body but is raised a spiritual body. If there is a physical body, there is also a spiritual body.

KJV
It is sown a natural body; it is raised a spiritual body. There is a natural body, and there is a spiritual body.

NOG
It is planted as a physical body. It comes back to life as a spiritual body. As there is a physical body, so there is also a spiritual body.

NABRE
It is sown a natural body; it is raised a spiritual body. If there is a natural body, there is also a spiritual one.

NASB
it is sown a natural body, it is raised a spiritual body. If there is a natural body, there is also a spiritual body.

NCB
What is sown is a physical body; what is raised is a spiritual body. If there is a natural body, there is also a spiritual body.

NCV
The body that is “planted” is a physical body. When it is raised, it is a spiritual body. There is a physical body, and there is also a spiritual body.

NIRV
It is planted as an earthly body. But it is raised as a spiritual body. Just as there is an earthly body, there is also a spiritual body.

NIV
it is sown a natural body, it is raised a spiritual body. If there is a natural body, there is also a spiritual body.

NKJV
It is sown a natural body, it is raised a spiritual body. There is a natural body, and there is a spiritual body.

NLT
They are buried as natural human bodies, but they will be raised as spiritual bodies. For just as there are natural bodies, there are also spiritual bodies.

NMB
It is sown a natural body, and rises a spiritual body.

NRSVA
It is sown a physical body, it is raised a spiritual body. If there is a physical body, there is also a spiritual body.

RGT
It is sown a natural body and is raised a spiritual body. There is a natural body, and there is a spiritual body.

RSV
It is sown a physical body, it is raised a spiritual body. If there is a physical body, there is also a spiritual body.
 

Trailblazer

Veteran Member
While I agree with everything you said, It should be emphasized especially to those who reject JESUS CHRIST as being the Return King of Kings who will judge the earth and establish an earthly Kingdom that:
Revelation 1:1 Clearly says THE REVELATION (Revealing, uncovering) OF JESUS CHRIST
It should be emphasized especially to those who believe JESUS CHRIST as being the Return King of Kings who will judge the earth and establish an earthly Kingdom that Jesus Himself said:

John 14:19 Yet a little while, and the world seeth me no more; but ye see me: because I live, ye shall live also.

John 16:10 Of righteousness, because I go to my Father, and ye see me no more.

John 17:4 I have glorified thee on the earth: I have finished the work which thou gavest me to do.

John 17:11 And now I am no more in the world, but these are in the world, and I come to thee. Holy Father, keep through thine own name those whom thou hast given me, that they may be one, as we are.


Jesus never claimed to be a king, and Jesus never said He was coming back to judge the earth and establish an earthly Kingdom

John 18:36 Jesus answered, My kingdom is not of this world: if my kingdom were of this world, then would my servants fight, that I should not be delivered to the Jews: but now is my kingdom not from hence.

John 18:37 Pilate therefore said unto him, Art thou a king then? Jesus answered, Thou sayest that I am a king. To this end was I born, and for this cause came I into the world, that I should bear witness unto the truth. Every one that is of the truth heareth my voice.


These two verses in John 18 completely negate that Jesus is the King of this world or that Jesus will ever come to this world to rule it, and they fit perfectly together with John 17:4 and John 17:11. Jesus came into this world to bear witness unto the truth about God. He did that so there is no more reason for Jesus to come back to this world again. That is why Jesus said “I am no more in the world.”

no more
  1. nothing further.
    "there was no more to be said about it"
  2. no further.
    "you must have some soup, but no more wine"
  3. exist no longer.
    "the patch of ground was overgrown and the hut was no more"
  4. never again.
    "mention his name no more to me"
  5. neither.
    "I had no complaints and no more did Tom"
Definitions from Oxford Languages
 
Jesus never claimed to be a king, and Jesus never said He was coming back to judge the earth and establish an earthly Kingdom

John 18:36 Jesus answered, My kingdom is not of this world: if my kingdom were of this world, then would my servants fight, that I should not be delivered to the Jews: but now is my kingdom not from hence.

John 18:37 Pilate therefore said unto him, Art thou a king then? Jesus answered, Thou sayest that I am a king. To this end was I born, and for this cause came I into the world, that I should bear witness unto the truth. Every one that is of the truth heareth my voice.
First let's deal with "Jesus Never claimed to be a King!!
The scriptures you posted, which I agree are true, ARE very True words that Jesus spoke, but are you so blind to the truth that you fail to see the obvious statement that Jesus proclaimed.

HE said MY KINGDOM is not of this world. This directly means Jesus has a Kingdom and if he has a Kingdom then that means it belongs to HIM!! does it not?

But even if you reject that truth, then the next verse (And thank you for sharing that). directly answers any confusion as to whether or not Jesus meant in John 8:36 that the Kingdom he is referring to, will be ruled by Jesus Christ!

John 18:37 Pilate therefore said unto him, Art thou a king then? Jesus answered, Thou sayest that I am a king. To this end was I born, and for this cause came I into the world, that I should bear witness unto the truth. Every one that is of the truth heareth my voice.

Jesus said it was for this very reason that he was born!! What you and your religion reject and totally distort is that although Jesus first came to Give himself for the world, a Perfect sacrifice for the sins of the world, (THE LAMB THAT SLAIN for the sins of the world)
He will return as KING TO RULE AS KING establishing his KINGDOM ON EARTH, BUT IT WILL NOT BE OF THIS WORLD.
This statement is not a mistake, contradiction, or any way confusing to those who understand the WHole purpose of the LORD JESUS CHRIST! And the world he is referring to.

The World Jesus Christ will Rule will be exactly as is stated in Revelation 21:1-5

1 And I saw a new heaven and a new earth: for the first heaven and the first earth were passed away; and there was no more sea


2 And I John saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down from God out of heaven, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband.

3 And I heard a great voice out of heaven saying, Behold, the tabernacle of God is with men, and he will dwell with them, and they shall be his people, and God himself shall be with them, and be their God.

4 And God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes; and there shall be no more death, neither sorrow, nor crying, neither shall there be any more pain: for the former things are passed away.

5 And he that sat upon the throne said, Behold, I make all things new. And he said unto me, Write: for these words are true and faithful.


Right now AND YES TODAY, this World is still under the RULE of Satan, the proof, contrary to what you claim as having started is filled with Death, hatred, lust, hopelessness etc.
(This is why the WORLD which is ruled by Satan at this time WILL PASS AWAY! Because again, Before our very eyes and all around us, right now the world as we see it is filled with hatred, lust, greed, hopelessness, Death, etc.
II Corintians 4:4 In whom the god of this world hath blinded the minds of them which believe not, lest the light of the glorious gospel of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine unto them.

I will answer your continuous claims that Jesus Christ said he will never return in the next post, but like my Lord, :)I must leave for now....and will return!
 

Trailblazer

Veteran Member
First let's deal with "Jesus Never claimed to be a King!!
The scriptures you posted, which I agree are true, ARE very True words that Jesus spoke, but are you so blind to the truth that you fail to see the obvious statement that Jesus proclaimed.

HE said MY KINGDOM is not of this world. This directly means Jesus has a Kingdom and if he has a Kingdom then that means it belongs to HIM!! does it not?
Jesus said MY KINGDOM is not of this world. Jesus said that because the KINGDOM of Jesus was in Heaven. I am sure I already posted that to you, but here it is again. Referring to Jesus Abdu'l-Baha said:

"The Throne upon which He sat is the Eternal Throne from which Christ reigns for ever, a heavenly throne, not an earthly one, for the things of earth pass away but heavenly things pass not away. He re-interpreted and completed the Law of Moses and fulfilled the Law of the Prophets. His word conquered the East and the West. His Kingdom is everlasting."

Abdu'l-Baha, Paris Talks

From: THE TRUE MEANING OF THE PROPHECIES CONCERNING THE COMING OF CHRIST
But even if you reject that truth, then the next verse (And thank you for sharing that). directly answers any confusion as to whether or not Jesus meant in John 8:36 that the Kingdom he is referring to, will be ruled by Jesus Christ!

John 18:37 Pilate therefore said unto him, Art thou a king then? Jesus answered, Thou sayest that I am a king. To this end was I born, and for this cause came I into the world, that I should bear witness unto the truth. Every one that is of the truth heareth my voice.

Jesus said it was for this very reason that he was born!!
Jesus answered, Thou sayest that I am a king. To this end was I born, and for this cause came I into the world, that I should bear witness unto the truth.

Jesus did not answer, yes, I am a king.

Then Jesus continued on and explained the REAL REASON that He came into this world, which was to bear witness unto the truth about God.

To this end was I born, and for this cause came I into the world, that I should bear witness unto the truth.
What you and your religion reject and totally distort is that although Jesus first came to Give himself for the world, a Perfect sacrifice for the sins of the world, (THE LAMB THAT SLAIN for the sins of the world)
Baha'is do not distort or reject that Jesus first came to Give himself for the world, a Perfect sacrifice for the sins of the world,.
We believe that, and it is even in our own scriptures!
He will return as KING TO RULE AS KING establishing his KINGDOM ON EARTH, BUT IT WILL NOT BE OF THIS WORLD.
This statement is not a mistake, contradiction, or any way confusing to those who understand the WHole purpose of the LORD JESUS CHRIST! And the world he is referring to.
No, Jesus will not return as KING TO RULE AS KING establishing his KINGDOM ON EARTH.
Jesus cannot come back to rule as a King since Jesus FINISHED His work and the world will SEE Him no more, that is logically impossible.

John 14:19 Yet a little while, and the world seeth me no more; but ye see me: because I live, ye shall live also.

John 16:10 Of righteousness, because I go to my Father, and ye see me no more.

John 17:4 I have glorified thee on the earth: I have finished the work which thou gavest me to do.

John 17:11 And now I am no more in the world, but these are in the world, and I come to thee. Holy Father, keep through thine own name those whom thou hast given me, that they may be one, as we are.

The World Jesus Christ will Rule will be exactly as is stated in Revelation 21:1-5

1 And I saw a new heaven and a new earth: for the first heaven and the first earth were passed away; and there was no more sea

2 And I John saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down from God out of heaven, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband.

3 And I heard a great voice out of heaven saying, Behold, the tabernacle of God is with men, and he will dwell with them, and they shall be his people, and God himself shall be with them, and be their God.

4 And God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes; and there shall be no more death, neither sorrow, nor crying, neither shall there be any more pain: for the former things are passed away.

5 And he that sat upon the throne said, Behold, I make all things new. And he said unto me, Write: for these words are true and faithful.


Right now AND YES TODAY, this World is still under the RULE of Satan, the proof, contrary to what you claim as having started is filled with Death, hatred, lust, hopelessness etc.
(This is why the WORLD which is ruled by Satan at this time WILL PASS AWAY! Because again, Before our very eyes and all around us, right now the world as we see it is filled with hatred, lust, greed, hopelessness, Death, etc.
II Corintians 4:4 In whom the god of this world hath blinded the minds of them which believe not, lest the light of the glorious gospel of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine unto them.
The New Earth that Baha'u'llah ushered in is presently being established by the Baha'is and others who have joined the in their mission
This New Earth is exactly as is stated in Revelation 21:1-5.

“This is the Day in which God’s most excellent favors have been poured out upon men, the Day in which His most mighty grace hath been infused into all created things. It is incumbent upon all the peoples of the world to reconcile their differences, and, with perfect unity and peace, abide beneath the shadow of the Tree of His care and loving-kindness. It behoveth them to cleave to whatsoever will, in this Day, be conducive to the exaltation of their stations, and to the promotion of their best interests. Happy are those whom the all-glorious Pen was moved to remember, 7 and blessed are those men whose names, by virtue of Our inscrutable decree, We have preferred to conceal.

Beseech ye the one true God to grant that all men may be graciously assisted to fulfil that which is acceptable in Our sight. Soon will the present-day order be rolled up, and a new one spread out in its stead. Verily, thy Lord speaketh the truth, and is the Knower of things unseen.”
Gleanings From the Writings of Bahá’u’lláh, pp. 6- 7

The New Earth is a new world order in which we will see the spiritualization of the peoples of the world and man will become a noble being adorned with divine virtues and perfections: New Race of Men

The “World Order” that Baha’is envision pertains to a number of subjects: politics and governance, economics, society, and religion, as is covered briefly in this blog: Toward a New World Order?
 
Last edited:

Trailblazer

Veteran Member
but like my Lord, :)I must leave for now....and will return!
Jesus never promised to return to earth, not once in the New Testament.
Jesus said His work was finished here and He was no more in the world.
That means that the return of Christ has to be another Person. Some of us know who that was.
 

Regiomontanus

Eastern Orthodox
Jesus never promised to return to earth, not once in the New Testament.
Jesus said His work was finished here and He was no more in the world.
That means that the return of Christ has to be another Person. Some of us know who that was.


How do you interpret John 14:1-3 ?

"Let not your heart be troubled...In My Father’s house are many mansions; if it were not so, I would have told you. I go to prepare a place for you. And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again and receive you to Myself; that where I am, there you may be also.”
 
How do you interpret John 14:1-3 ?

"Let not your heart be troubled...In My Father’s house are many mansions; if it were not so, I would have told you. I go to prepare a place for you. And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again and receive you to Myself; that where I am, there you may be also.”

Hi Regiomontanus,

John is good, what about Matthew 24:30-31? Luke 19:15? etc.

I hope all is well.
 
I love the Gospel according to Matthew. The parts you quoted certainly point to His return IMHO.
Hi Regiomontanus,

Matthew is the first and I also like that book better because it seems like in subsequent retellings the story just gets more embellished. I could be reading into it too much.

I hope all is well.
 

Regiomontanus

Eastern Orthodox
Hi Regiomontanus,

Matthew is the first and I also like that book better because it seems like in subsequent retellings the story just gets more embellished. I could be reading into it too much.

I hope all is well.

Yes, early, which is why it is the most 'Jewish.' Very close to early Christian thought.
 

Trailblazer

Veteran Member
How do you interpret John 14:1-3 ?

"Let not your heart be troubled...In My Father’s house are many mansions; if it were not so, I would have told you. I go to prepare a place for you. And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again and receive you to Myself; that where I am, there you may be also.”
John 14:2-3 In my Father's house are many mansions: if it were not so, I would have told you. I go to prepare a place for you. And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again, and receive you unto myself; that where I am, there ye may be also.

When Jesus said “I will come again” He was not referring to coming back to earth again. Jesus said that His work was finished here and He was no more in the world: (John 14:19, John 17:4, John 17:11).

John 14:2-3 is Jesus speaking to His disciples. It is not Jesus promising anyone else He will return to earth. When Jesus said “I will come again” He was not talking about His physical body returning to earth, He was referring to His Spirit coming again, which I believe it did, in another person who I believe was the return of the Christ spirit with a new name (Isaiah 62:2, Revelation 2:17, Revelation 3:12)

Jesus said to the disciples “I will come again, and receive you unto myself” Jesus knew He was going to heaven, and He was telling His disciples that He would prepare a place for them in heaven so they could be with Him in heaven -- that where I am, there ye may be also.

Hypothetically speaking, if Jesus returned to earth now, the disciples could not 'receive Jesus' since the disciples are no longer living on earth.

John 14:3 is one of the most misunderstood verses in the New Testament so it is no wonder the Bible commentaries do not agree on what it means.
 

Trailblazer

Veteran Member
Hi Regiomontanus,

John is good, what about Matthew 24:30-31? Luke 19:15? etc.

I hope all is well.
Matthew 24
30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.
31 And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.

The Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory is not referring to Jesus.

Who is the Son of man who will come in the clouds of heaven?

Son of man coming in the clouds means that the return of Christ will appear in the form of another human being. The term “clouds” as used in the Bible means those things that are contrary to the ways and desires of men. Just like the physical clouds prevent the eyes of men from beholding the sun, these things hindered men from recognizing the return of Christ.

In other words, the judgment of most people was clouded when Christ returned and it is still clouded for most people.

One thing that clouds the judgment of Christians is their desire for the same Jesus to return to earth.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~`

Luke 19:15 And it came to pass, that when he was returned, having received the kingdom, then he commanded these servants to be called unto him, to whom he had given the money, that he might know how much every man had gained by trading.

This chapter is about Jesus when He was alive on earth 2000 years ago. It has nothing to do with the return of Jesus to this earth.

That is why the chapter begins:
Luke 19:1 And Jesus entered and passed through Jericho.
 
Jesus never promised to return to earth, not once in the New Testament.
Jesus said His work was finished here and He was no more in the world.
That means that the return of Christ has to be another Person. Some of us know who that was.
Please tell me, are you saying Jesus is no Longer doing anything on this earth now, physically or Sprritually?
 

Balthazzar

N. Germanic Descent
I would like to pose a question for theists, namely: what is God's top priority? I cannot prove that no god exists, but there are many types of gods that I can prove do not exist.


I know that an omnipotent god whose top priority is preventing rape and murder cannot exist.
I know that an omnipotent god whose top priority is preventing childhood cancer cannot exist.
I know that an omnipotent god whose top priority is preventing starvation cannot exist.
I know that an omnipotent god whose top priority is preventing the extinction of 99% of the species he created cannot exist.
I know that an omnipotent god whose top priority is having a personal relationship with all of his human creations cannot exist.
I know that an omnipotent god whose top priority is having all humans believe in him cannot exist.


I could give many other examples, but I think the point has been made. If God exists, and he is omnipotent, his top priority cannot be any of the above things. So what is God's top priority? Since it seems like one of the items I listed above would be the top priority of the god of classical theism, it almost seems that if God does exist, then his top priority is to make it look like he doesn't exist.

Taking a cue from someone I know: "What you need to understand" is that the creator, although benevolent and all powerful, all knowing, and ever present, only intervenes when there is a risk present to itself, or maybe it would be better stated "mostly" never intervenes unless. Then again, the creator may not be too concerned at all, knowing that we'll one day get through our tragedies and are mostly capable of handling and/or preventing many of them as intelligent or rather semi-intelligent beings. Those things (tragedies) we are unable to effectively handle, history suggests that we eventually learn how to handle them. Although, how we handle them is often enough frowned upon by human rights activists.

All joking aside: My answer is "I don't know." and how am I supposed to know something like that? Top priority ... I'm not even sure what my own is.
 
John 14:19 Yet a little while, and the world seeth me no more; but ye see me: because I live, ye shall live also.
This clearly speaks of Jesus who was going to be crucified, which per the scriptures happened. And yes Physically, the rest of the inhabitants on this earth AT THE TIME, would not physically see him again, except those that the same Bible clearly said, and as Jesus clearly promised "BUT YE SHALL SEE ME".
Your claim and that is all it is, that Jesus did not rise from the tomb and had a physical body, is nothing more than your opinion, and it makes sense! you have to make that claim otherwise Baha u llah is then a False messiah!
 

Trailblazer

Veteran Member
Please tell me, are you saying Jesus is no Longer doing anything on this earth now, physically or Sprritually?
Obviously, Jesus is not doing anything in this world 'physically' since Jesus is in heaven, not on earth.
I cannot say what Jesus is doing 'from heaven' that is affecting this earth spiritually, nobody knows that.
 

Trailblazer

Veteran Member
This clearly speaks of Jesus who was going to be crucified, which per the scriptures happened. And yes Physically, the rest of the inhabitants on this earth AT THE TIME, would not physically see him again, except those that the same Bible clearly said, and as Jesus clearly promised "BUT YE SHALL SEE ME".
Please cite the verses where Jesus says "BUT YE SHALL SEE ME" if you can find any such verses and I will explain what they mean.
You would only have a leg to stand on if you have verses where Jesus says He is going to return to earth, but there are no such verses.

By the way, if you are claiming that the verses I cited only applied to the inhabitants on this earth AT THAT TIME, then you cannot apply other things that Jesus said to people living AT THIS TIME, since that would be illogical.
Your claim and that is all it is, that Jesus did not rise from the tomb and had a physical body, is nothing more than your opinion, and it makes sense! you have to make that claim otherwise Baha u llah is then a False messiah!
Whether or not Jesus rose in a physical body or not has nothing to do with whether or not Baha'u'llah was a False messiah. There is NO logical connection.

Baha'u'llah never said that Jesus 'did not' rise in a physical body. That is what I believe based upon what the Bible says.

It really doesn't matter if Jesus rose physically or not since all physical bodies die eventually since they are mortal.
It makes more sense that Jesus rose in a spiritual body and ascended to heaven in a spiritual body because spiritual bodies are immortal so they are not subject to death.

Christians have to make the claim that Jesus rose in a physical body in order to make what happened into a miracle and to thereby stand apart and superior to all the other religions, but it would be better if they would concede that Jesus rose in a spiritual body because that is in accordance with what the Bible actually says.

The fact that the body of Jesus 'looked and felt' like a physical body can be explained by the fact that Jesus can do any miracle, so making His body look and feel physical to the disciples in order to restore their faith would have been a piece of cake for Jesus.
 

Trailblazer

Veteran Member
This clearly speaks of Jesus who was going to be crucified, which per the scriptures happened. And yes Physically, the rest of the inhabitants on this earth AT THE TIME, would not physically see him again
John 14:19 Yet a little while, and the world seeth me no more; but ye see me: because I live, ye shall live also.

John 17:11 And now I am no more in the world, but these are in the world, and I come to thee. Holy Father, keep through thine own name those whom thou hast given me, that they may be one, as we are.

These verses do not only apply to the inhabitants on this earth AT THE TIME Jesus said this.
No more means no further, never again.

no more

  1. nothing further.
    "there was no more to be said about it"
  2. no further.
    "you must have some soup, but no more wine"
  3. exist no longer.
    "the patch of ground was overgrown and the hut was no more"
  4. never again.
    "mention his name no more to me"
  5. neither.
    "I had no complaints and no more did Tom"
Definitions from Oxford Languages
 
Top