What is immoral about casual and friendly sex between adults?

[McBell]

I think he made a really good point — if I understood it at all. Atheists do borrow the diluted moral standards of the Christians but refuse to admit it.

My moral standard has nothing to do with Christianity.
Though there may be some overlap.
But that is to be expected.

Now to claim such overlap is "borrowing from Christianity", no that is a dishonest claim.
Interesting how the most immoral ones in this thread are the ones who claim moral superiority.
Some even hide behind their gods when claiming it.

 

[Polymath257]

You misrepresent my words. No. I will not apologise for saying what I think in a discussion such as this.

According to your words you do commit sin according the Abrahamic faiths. Now you are free to do whatever you want, but in Islam what you say you do/would do/what you think is okay to do, is wrong, sinful, immoral — Immoral lifestyle.

Could it be that people who lead an immoral lifestyle cannot bear it if their values/norms/habits are questioned?

Could that be because they are ashamed because deep down they know that they do wrong?

Why should their moral "standards" be accepted without sound reasoning? What gives them the authority over others? How is it okay for them to do all kinds of sin in front of us and claim a moral high ground just because?

Or could it be that they reject those Abrahamic religions and have a different moral system?

 

[Saint Frankenstein]

And at what age would you advise your daughter to do what the OP proposes — Seeing as there is no "harm" in casual sex?

I don't really care for being a parent, but if I adopt a kid, they'll be taught the facts about sex and I will encourage them to make healthy and responsible decisions. It's not my business to control their sexuality, but I would encourage them to wait and not be pressured into it when they're uncomfortable. If they need condoms and birth control or whatever else, I would help them.

 

[Rise]

A: You're intoxicating.
B: You're amazing.
A: Sex?
B: Yes, please. I have till five.
A: I'll get a room across the street.
{pause for lingering kiss}
B: Any health concerns we need to work around?
A: No. And I test quarterly
B: Cool. Me too. But have had HPV
A: Not a problem. You'll get condoms?
B: I'll get the condoms. Latex okay?
A: I'm allergic.
B: Ok. I'll get polyisoprene. Lube preference?
A: Anything water based. And a dam. It will may me more comfortable. And get drinks and snacks. Salty snacks.
B: Will do. Here's my number. Text me with the room number.
A: You bet! {pause for promising kiss} We're going to have so much fun!
B: Feel my heart. It's pounding. I'd better go shopping before I forget how to walk. See you soon!

The one who made you is the one who defined how you were suppose to operate.

Sin, by definition, is not operating the way you were designed or intended to.

Biblically, we know sin has consequences. Practically, we can see this even today when we see how people living outside of God's parameters will eventually result in bad consequences.

Any time you operate a designed machine in a way that it wasn't intended or designed to operate you will have consequences to varying degrees.

So the question of why something is immoral must be posed to God, who designed you, as to why this activity is harmful to you and those around you.

I can think of many ways in which this behavior would be harmful. Not all of which may be readily or immediately apparent to you. But there may be ways it is harmful which I am not even aware or can't think of, which only God has the wisdom and perception to know fully.

That is where trusting God becomes important. Like a child trusting their parent that a certain activity is harmful. Which is part of why Jesus tells us we must be like a little child when coming to God. A little child doesn't have the capacity to understand the full rammifications of what they would do. They are totally dependent on their parents to guide them about what is good or bad for them.

 

[Polymath257]

And at what age would you advise your daughter to do what the OP proposes — Seeing as there is no "harm" in casual sex?

When she is of the age of consent and feels ready. I would previously educate her about risks. But it would then be her decision.

 

[McBell]

Sin, by definition, is not operating the way you were designed or intended to.

Sin, by definition, is going against the will/wishes of your chosen deity.

So, by the very definition of the word, those without a chosen deity, can not sin.

 

[Polymath257]

Why is contracting a cold from someone less significant than contracting chlamydia?

if untreated, chlamydia can have a number of long term consequences. It can also be silent in women while having nasty side effects. But it is easily treated once found.

 

[Rise]

Sin, by definition, is going against the will/wishes of your chosen deity.

So, by the very definition of the word, those without a chosen deity, can not sin.

There's a few reasons your claim is false:

1. "Sin" is a Biblical term. And, as such, it's definition is derived from the Bible.

2. The way you tried to define sin is Biblically incorrect. "Sin" is Biblically defined as that which is contrary to who God is. Because who God is and what His will is are the same thing. And what God commands you to do is in line with what His will is, which is in line with who He is. His word and will is an expression of His being and character. You could say he is incapable of doing anything that is not consistent with His being and character, which is why it says God cannot lie.
As such, when man sins, who was made in the image of God, it is a violation of God's will for us. Which is a failure to be like God in character. Which is a violation of what we were designed and intended to be. Which has consequences. From the very beginning the consequence of the sin of eating from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil was death.

3. Biblically we see you do not avoid the consequences of sin just because you choose to reject God's truth. Nor does rejecting God Himself as God prevent you from being judged for your sin. In fact, we could say this is a central running theme throughout the Bible of people facing the consequences for their rejection of God's truth and embracing of sin unrepentantly.

 

[Polymath257]

It's more work to treat and easier to avoid. Also, it's embarrassing when in places of "liberty" like the US STDs become epidemic. Do you think one day we'll have a pandemic like covid but with chlamydia?

Well, chlamydia isn't nearly as lethal as coronavirus.

And, as someone once said: sexually transmitted diseases are the ones that are *so* hard to transmit that you need to actually have sex with someone to transmit them. That's a bit different than transmission by sneezing.

On the other hand, we *have* had epidemic sexually transmitted diseases: HIV/AIDS.

 

[Polymath257]

There's a few problems with your claim:

1. "Sin" is a Biblical term. And, as such, it's definition is derived from the Bible.

2. The way you tried to define sin is Biblically incorrect. "Sin" is Biblically defined as that which is contrary to who God is. Because who God is and what His will is are the same thing. And what God commands you to do is in line with what His will is, which is in line with who He is. His word and will is an expression of His being and character. You could say he is incapable of doing anything that is not consistent with His being and character, which is why it says God cannot lie.
As such, when man sins, who was made in the image of God, it is a violation of God's will for us. Which is a failure to be like God in character. Which is a violation of what we were designed and intended to be. Which has consequences. From the very beginning the consequence of the sin of eating from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil was death.

3. Biblically we see you do not avoid the consequences of sin just because you choose to reject God's truth. In fact, we could say this is a central running theme throughout the Bible of people facing the consequences for their rejection of God's truth and embracing of sin unrepentantly.

And if someone doesn't take the Bible as being accurate?

 

[ppp]

Have a great rest of your day.

Thanks!

 

[Rise]

And if someone doesn't take the Bible as being accurate?

That is not relevant to the claim he tried to make.

Since "sin" is a term derived from the Bible, the Bible gets to define what "sin" is.

You don't get to make up your own definition of "sin" that is completely inconsistent with how the Bible defines it.
There is no logical basis for doing that.

Simply choosing to not believe what the Bible says doesn't give you to the logical basis or right to then decide you're going to change all the definitions of the words contained in the Bible.

 

[McBell]

There's a few problems with your claim:

1. "Sin" is a Biblical term. And, as such, it's definition is derived from the Bible.

2. The way you tried to define sin is Biblically incorrect. "Sin" is Biblically defined as that which is contrary to who God is. Because who God is and what His will is are the same thing. And what God commands you to do is in line with what His will is, which is in line with who He is. His word and will is an expression of His being and character. You could say he is incapable of doing anything that is not consistent with His being and character, which is why it says God cannot lie.

3. Biblically we see you do not avoid the consequences of sin just because you choose to reject God's truth. In fact, we could say this is a central running theme throughout the Bible of people facing the consequences for their rejection of God's truth and embracing of sin unrepentantly.

The Bible does not have any ownership of the word sin.
And all the jumping up and down claiming otherwise will not change it.

Now I realize you may well have a great difficulty understanding this, but the fact of the matter is that the Bible does not apply to me.
Or anyone else who is less than impressed with it.

 

[ppp]

The one who made you is the one who defined how you were suppose to operate.

That isn't particularly relevant, but even if there was one who made me, her definitions do not equate to my obligations

Sin, by definition, is not operating the way you were designed or intended to.

You can define it however you want. Your definitions don't oblige me either.

Biblically, we know...

No. We don't.
I am going to skip the rest of the sermon.

 

[McBell]

That is not relevant to the claim he tried to make.

You wish.

Since "sin" is a term derived from the Bible, the Bible gets to define what "sin" is.

prove it.
Or at least try to.

You don't get to make up your own definition of "sin" that is completely inconsistent with how the Bible defines it.
There is no logical basis for doing that.

again, I realize you are going to have a great difficulty understanding this...

Yes I do.
Because the Bible has not authority over me.
Nor does your chosen deity.
Nor do you.​

Simply choosing to not believe what the Bible says doesn't give you to the logical basis or right to then decide you're going to change all the definitions of the words contained in the Bible.

your hypocrisy is showing.
The word sin is not owned by the bible.
Or even theists for that matter.

 

[ppp]

if untreated, chlamydia can have a number of long term consequences. It can also be silent in women while having nasty side effects. But it is easily treated once found.

That is certainly what I would have said. But it is hard to turn that alone into a moral obligation to not have sex when one chooses to do so.

 

[Piculet]

I don't really care for being a parent, but if I adopt a kid, they'll be taught the facts about sex and I will encourage them to make healthy and responsible decisions. It's not my business to control their sexuality, but I would encourage them to wait and not be pressured into it when they're uncomfortable. If they need condoms and birth control or whatever else, I would help them.

You didn't answer my question and how would I know what you consider "healthy" choices? They could be anything!

 

[Saint Frankenstein]

You didn't answer my question and how would I know what you consider "healthy" choices? They could be anything!

I did answer your question. Take it or leave it.

 

[Piculet]

When she is of the age of consent and feels ready. I would previously educate her about risks. But it would then be her decision.

Then you would advice her (??? You didn't deny it) to have casual sex with a stranger who doesn't care about her, who — despite the anti HIV medicine she takes every day — still has 1% chance of giving her HIV and a baby and approximately 15% chance of her having a good time because while men like sex with strangers, for women it isn't as well.

Aside that if you intend to raise a child who isn't emotionally numbed and who hasn't gotten use to abusive relationships, why would she like to be sexually used and discarded like a prostitute?

They are no longer just accepting boyfriends and girlfriends, they are advising their daughters to become whores worth 0 anything. At least the USA can cut the funding from schools again. Girls only need to go to school until they develop those adult body proportions that strange men like — for free.

Chlamydia is not much worse than a flu — they say — but what will she do without the pleasure of pleasing a strange man — I think suicide rates are going to rise among females aged 15-30.

 

[Polymath257]

Then you would advice her (??? You didn't deny it) to have casual sex with a stranger who doesn't care about her, who — despite the anti HIV medicine she takes every day — still has 1% chance of giving her HIV and a baby and approximately 15% chance of her having a good time because while men like sex with strangers, for women it isn't as well.

Aside that if you intend to raise a child who isn't emotionally numbed and who hasn't gotten use to abusive relationships, why would she like to be sexually used and discarded like a prostitute?

They are no longer just accepting boyfriends and girlfriends, they are advising their daughters to become whores worth 0 anything. At least the USA can cut the funding from schools again. Girls only need to go to school until they develop those adult body proportions that strange men like — for free.

Chlamydia is not much worse than a flu — they say — but what will she do without the pleasure of pleasing a strange man — I think suicide rates are going to rise among females aged 15-30.

Not really reading what I wrote, huh?

I would teach my daughter how to make her own decisions, weighing the potential risks and rewards and to understand the consequences of her actions.

Then, I would encourage her to make the decision that she feels is appropriate for the situation.

No, I am most certainly NOT saying what you claim. I want her to stand up for herself and not rely on a man to take care of her. To not be in any sort of abusive relationship. But that includes someone who would 'hit her lightly' for religious reasons.

That you equate 'being a whore' with making her own decision who to have sex with and when is telling. She most certainly should NOT feel pressured in ANY way to have sex with ANYONE, whether she is married to them or not. But she should also feel free to have friendly sex with someone if she feels it is safe and what she wants to do.