What Is Justice?

[S-word]

Quote...ben d
For those who are impatient and are inclined to act on their own sense of justice or injustice, unless one is already perfect, "Do not judge so that will not be judged." (Matthew 7:1), and secondly remember "He who lives by the sword dies by the sword". (Matthew 26:52)

You've got it right there ben d, those people who live by the sword (killing their fellow man) will die by the sword of Man at the command of God who said, "He who sheds man's blood, by man must his blood be shed. Or do you believe that somehow, a golden sword is going to appear in midair and chop their heads off?

Dont end up like the mug in this poem who was waiting for some miraculous salvation, for God works from within and by the power of his creations.

It seemed the rain would never stop, the house was flooded and there on top
Of the highest peak that you could see, with waters raging round his knee
Stood a man of faith--and as the waters swirled around his legs there came a girl rowing by
In a wooden boat and she gave a cry,"Hop in you poor wet soaking man
And I'll get you up onto higher ground."
But he looked at her, then shook his head and his eyes turned heavenward as he said,
To God and God alone I've prayed, and by God alone will I be saved.
As time went by, he was cold and wet and by then the water had reached his neck
When somewhere from outta the blue, came a motor boat with it's rescue crew,
But the man refused their offer to save, and the same reply to them he gave,
"To God and God alone I've prayed, and by God alone will I be saved"
Well pretty soon as the waters rose, the man was struggling to keep his nose
Above the waters rising brim, when from up above, a voice called to him.
He looked, a chopper hovered there, with a life-line dangling there
"Slip the harness over your head, and we'll get you out,"the pilot said
But again he refused, his faith held firm, when would these people ever learn?
Spitting water and gasping for breath, he yell to the pilot, "In God is my faith,
Go help some sinner if you feel that you must, but God is my saviour in God is my trust."
Well, the stories not over,though his life surely was
And as he passed through the gates of heaven above
His anger was blazing, and there at God's throne, He screamed to his Lord, "You let me drown.
I've wasted me life putting faith in you, and though others on earth might believe it's true
That you save the faithful, I know that's a lie, cos you sat here and watched this faithful man die.
Then a voice thundered out from the highest throne,
In the inner most sanctuary of the golden room,
I sent you two boats and a chopper too, how much more did you expect me to do?......By S-word

 

[Father Heathen]

I could not agree with you any less.

Justice means a rich man would face consequences for his trespasses on the poor.

Justice is when you search for the criminal and bring them in to answer for their crime. No poor person would have these resources if not for justice.

Justice is where you temper punishment with mercy. Is it your first time? Was it premeditated? Was it an accident?

Justice sets an example for others to follow. It acts as a motivator to not commit crime in the first place.

Might make right? You betcha! Do you have a problem with authority?

Actually, the rich can and do afford more and better lawyers than the poor. The rich can and do bribe judges, jurors, law enforcement officers, and others. The rich can and do use their power and influence to threaten, harass, intimidate, coerce and extort their victims, their victims' families, jurors, witnesses, etc. They can buy silence. The rich can prey upon others with impunity because they have the system in their pocket. Do you honestly think it's just coincidence that rich people get reduced sentences and acquittals a lot more often than poor people?

 

[DarkSun]

Quote....DarkSun
God is the only one who can administer justice, because He is the only one who is truly perfect. My value for human life has created the perception that anyone who is a threat to society should be removed from it, and fines should be used as a means of averting possible harm. But otherwise, no physical or emotional damage should be inflicted upon that which we perceive as immoral.

I am glad to see that you agree that God is the only one who can administer justice, because He is the only one who is truly perfect. For God administers his Justice through his servants who obey his command, to shed the blood of those who have knowingly and wilfully taken the life of an innocent person, in order that man might understand the sacredness of human life. I know that many people don’t have the guts or the fortitude to carry out God’s command, and would argue that it would be sufficient to incarcerate, for the rest of their life, those people who have forfeited their right to live, thereby imposing upon society a cost of billions and billions of dollars.

Proverbs 25: 21 If your enemy is hungry, give him food to eat;
if he is thirsty, give him water to drink.

Matt 5: 38-45 "You have heard that it was said, 'Eye for eye, and tooth for tooth.' But I tell you, Do not resist an evil person. If someone strikes you on the right cheek, turn to him the other also. And if someone wants to sue you and take your tunic, let him have your cloak as well. If someone forces you to go one mile, go with him two miles. Give to the one who asks you, and do not turn away from the one who wants to borrow from you."You have heard that it was said, 'Love your neighbor and hate your enemy.' But I tell you: Love your enemies and pray for those who persecute you, that you may be sons of your Father in heaven. He causes his sun to rise on the evil and the good, and sends rain on the righteous and the unrighteous.

Matt 18: 20-22 Then Peter came to Jesus and asked, "Lord, how many times shall I forgive my brother when he sins against me? Up to seven times?" Jesus answered, "I tell you, not seven times, but seventy-seven times.

Matt 19:19 Love your neighbor as yourself.

Romans 2: 3-5 You, therefore, have no excuse, you who pass judgment on someone else, for at whatever point you judge the other, you are condemning yourself, because you who pass judgment do the same things. Now we know that God's judgment against those who do such things is based on truth. So when you, a mere man, pass judgment on them and yet do the same things, do you think you will escape God's judgment? Or do you show contempt for the riches of his kindness, tolerance and patience, not realizing that God's kindness leads you toward repentance?

Romans 12: 17-22 Do not repay anyone evil for evil. Be careful to do what is right in the eyes of everybody. If it is possible, as far as it depends on you, live at peace with everyone. Do not take revenge, my friends, but leave room for God's wrath, for it is written: "It is mine to avenge; I will repay," says the Lord. On the contrary:
"If your enemy is hungry, feed him;
if he is thirsty, give him something to drink.
In doing this, you will heap burning coals on his head." Do not be overcome by evil, but overcome evil with good.

 

[Ben Dhyan]

Quote...ben d
For those who are impatient and are inclined to act on their own sense of justice or injustice, unless one is already perfect, "Do not judge so that will not be judged." (Matthew 7:1), and secondly remember "He who lives by the sword dies by the sword". (Matthew 26:52)

You've got it right there ben d, those people who live by the sword (killing their fellow man) will die by the sword of Man at the command of God who said, "He who sheds man's blood, by man must his blood be shed. Or do you believe that somehow, a golden sword is going to appear in midair and chop their heads off?

Dont end up like the mug in this poem who was waiting for some miraculous salvation, for God works from within and by the power of his creations.

It seemed the rain would never stop, the house was flooded and there on top
Of the highest peak that you could see, with waters raging round his knee
Stood a man of faith--and as the waters swirled around his legs there came a girl rowing by
In a wooden boat and she gave a cry,"Hop in you poor wet soaking man
And I'll get you up onto higher ground."
But he looked at her, then shook his head and his eyes turned heavenward as he said,
To God and God alone I've prayed, and by God alone will I be saved.
As time went by, he was cold and wet and by then the water had reached his neck
When somewhere from outta the blue, came a motor boat with it's rescue crew,
But the man refused their offer to save, and the same reply to them he gave,
"To God and God alone I've prayed, and by God alone will I be saved"
Well pretty soon as the waters rose, the man was struggling to keep his nose
Above the waters rising brim, when from up above, a voice called to him.
He looked, a chopper hovered there, with a life-line dangling there
"Slip the harness over your head, and we'll get you out,"the pilot said
But again he refused, his faith held firm, when would these people ever learn?
Spitting water and gasping for breath, he yell to the pilot, "In God is my faith,
Go help some sinner if you feel that you must, but God is my saviour in God is my trust."
Well, the stories not over,though his life surely was
And as he passed through the gates of heaven above
His anger was blazing, and there at God's throne, He screamed to his Lord, "You let me drown.
I've wasted me life putting faith in you, and though others on earth might believe it's true
That you save the faithful, I know that's a lie, cos you sat here and watched this faithful man die.
Then a voice thundered out from the highest throne,
In the inner most sanctuary of the golden room,
I sent you two boats and a chopper too, how much more did you expect me to do?

Hi S-word, understand what you are trying to convey and agree that in the workings of Divine karma, there are warriors who are used as instruments of divine justice in the killing of wrong doers, but it is my understanding that this warrior class is somewhat down the hierarchical pecking order.

For those who love God with all their heart, with all their soul, with all their mind, and with all their strength, their salvation is near, whilst those warrior class whose present dharma is involves physical killing are perhaps not yet so near.

So far as the little story you quoted, do you not see that it could be just metaphorical and not meant to be interpreted literally.

In this case, the metaphor is telling me that the man of faith calling out to God to be saved as water raged around him up to his neck, is likened to a stricken soul, a prodigal son if you like who wants to be free of the turmoil and suffering of mortal life (due to it's ever acting perfect karmic justice).

The girl in the wooden boat that offers to help him to reach higher ground is likened to an angel sent by the Lord in response to the man's prayers to guide him to the path of salvation. The man's sorry soul conditions is such that "He looks, but does not see, he listens but do not hear", for he has yet to develop the faculty of the 'spiritual eye', and therefore ignores this offer of help to find salvation, and continues to cry out to God for IMMEDIATE salvation.

This theme is repeated with the angelic pilot/choppers, and as a result of continuing to refuse the offers of guidance to the path of salvation from God's messengers, and arrogantly expecting no less than the on high God to personally attend to his immediate salvation, the man therefore ultimately 'died in his sins' as they say.

Now cut to the afterlife postmortem where the now deceased's spirit is claiming innocence of any negligence on it's part of living a proper life in faith of the merciful God, and tries to make the case of negligence on the part of God.

Then comes from the revelation from the inner most sanctuary, i.e. the non-personal inner source of the deceased man's soul, that the perfect and appropriate heavenly response was accorded through the angelic visitations.

The moral of this story?...God is spirit and should be worshipped in spirit. John 4:24

 

[zenzero]

Friend S-word,

Mind is the biggest paradox of all.
A THINKING mind be it thinking even about some *JUSTICE* or even about the buddha is still thinking and only when the mind STILLS does one merges in the oceanic silence of nothingness.
To understand that even thinking about *BUDDHA* is still thinking and a ripple remains Buddha had said* KILL me, even if you meet me on the way*.
Even with a golden sword the buddha in you cannot be killed as it is only a THOUGH that perceives *JUSTICE* or the *BUDDHA* and the only WAY is understanding.
Love & rgds

 

[S-word]

Hi S-word, understand what you are trying to convey and agree that in the workings of Divine karma, there are warriors who are used as instruments of divine justice in the killing of wrong doers, but it is my understanding that this warrior class is somewhat down the hierarchical pecking order.

For those who love God with all their heart, with all their soul, with all their mind, and with all their strength, their salvation is near, whilst those warrior class whose present dharma is involves physical killing are perhaps not yet so near.

So far as the little story you quoted, do you not see that it could be just metaphorical and not meant to be interpreted literally.

In this case, the metaphor is telling me that the man of faith calling out to God to be saved as water raged around him up to his neck, is likened to a stricken soul, a prodigal son if you like who wants to be free of the turmoil and suffering of mortal life (due to it's ever acting perfect karmic justice).

The girl in the wooden boat that offers to help him to reach higher ground is likened to an angel sent by the Lord in response to the man's prayers to guide him to the path of salvation. The man's sorry soul conditions is such that "He looks, but does not see, he listens but do not hear", for he has yet to develop the faculty of the 'spiritual eye', and therefore ignores this offer of help to find salvation, and continues to cry out to God for IMMEDIATE salvation.

This theme is repeated with the angelic pilot/choppers, and as a result of continuing to refuse the offers of guidance to the path of salvation from God's messengers, and arrogantly expecting no less than the on high God to personally attend to his immediate salvation, the man therefore ultimately 'died in his sins' as they say.

Now cut to the afterlife postmortem where the now deceased's spirit is claiming innocence of any negligence on it's part of living a proper life in faith of the merciful God, and tries to make the case of negligence on the part of God.

Then comes from the revelation from the inner most sanctuary, i.e. the non-personal inner source of the deceased man's soul, that the perfect and appropriate heavenly response was accorded through the angelic visitations.

The moral of this story?...God is spirit and should be worshipped in spirit. John 4:24

You're reading too much into the poem my friend, I had once heard a Joke similar to that, and after my assistance was rejected by some idiot who was waiting for Gods miraculous intervention to save him, I wrote that poem over six years ago, for no other reason than the fact that I wanted to show these people who cannot see God's helping hand in the acts of ordinary people such as myself, for the fools that they are.

 

[zenzero]

Friend S-word,

I wanted to show these people who cannot see God's helping hand in the acts of ordinary people such as myself, for the fools that they are.

Since you already have this understanding; the next step would be to understand that god and satan is the same energy both created by humans.
Love & rgds

 

[S-word]

Quote....DarkSun-----He causes his sun to rise on the evil and the good, and sends rain on the righteous and the unrighteous.In reference to the time when the Lord will have established his ultimate rule in Jerusalem, from where he shall rule the whole world with JUSTICE: Zechariah 14: 17, “And it shall be, that whosoever will not come up of all the families of the earth unto Jerusalem to worship the King, the Lord of hosts, even upon them shall there be no rain. You really don’t understand the salvation as revealed in the Holy Scriptures, do you?

David, who prepared the way for the peaceful rule of his son, of whom God said, “He is the one who will build the Temple for me, and I shall be his Father and he shall be my Son,” gathered to himself all the dregs and misfits of society and brought all the hostile nations surrounding Jerusalem into submission, to kneel before his son.

Malachi 3: 1, the Lord almighty answers, “I will send my messenger to prepare the way for me. Then the Lord you are looking for will suddenly come to his Temple. The messenger you long to see will come and proclaim my covenant.” But who will be able to endure the day when he comes? Who will be able to survive when he appears? Zechariah 13: 7, The Lord Almighty says, “Wake up Sword, and attack the shepherd who works for me! The worthless shepherd that the Lord rose up, after he had been paid his majestic wage of thirty pieces of silver.

O! You shepherd of the darkness who claims God sent You out
And even though we know that’s true, that fact I wouldn’t flout
For God commanded Zechariah, “Throw my wages ‘cross the floor,
Those thirty bits of silver, for I’ll guide this flock no more
A worthless shepherd now I’ll raise to guide this stubborn flock
And he will be a useless one, of him I’ll take no stock
For he’ll not feed my little ones, nor search for them that’s lost
But he eats the meat of the fattest sheep: and their hoofs? He tears them off
That worthless shepherd, he is doomed for abandoning my flock
His power, will I destroy by war, his arm will wither dry, then drop
And his right eye will I turn Blind, that’s why he’s never seen
The passage where I speak of him, Zechariah eleven—twelve to seventeen.....By S-word


The spiritual cells of the body of our saviour who rose Jesus from death as the first fruits, whose spiritual body was poured out as fire on all those who believed the words of our saviour as spoken through his obedient servant Jesus who spoke not one word on his own authority, but only that which he was commanded by our saviour, which spiritual cells have been gathering to themselves all the spirits of good people who have fallen asleep in righteousness, are soon to be reborn on earth, as the risen body of our Lord, who will take the thrones that have been prepared for them and rule the Lord’s day=the Sabbath, the seventh period of one thousand years from the day when Adam ate of the forbidden fruit and died on that day at the age of 930.

We are now at the close of the sixth day, as we await the messenger of the lord who butchered the false prophets of Baal and who will prepare the way for the peaceful rule of the body of our Lord.

Soon you will see my God execute his Justice in this world. Soon will be fulfilled the prophecy in Numbers 24: 17, “A king, like a bright star, will arise in that Nation. Like a comet he will come from Israel. He will strike the leaders of Moab and beat down all the people of Seth. He will conquer his enemies in Edom and make their land his property. While Israel continues victorious. The Nation of Israel will trample them down and wipe out the last survivors.” It will be on that great day of tribulation that is prophesied to occur before the day of the Lord, when the Lord gathers all the nations around Jerusalem.

Zechariah 12: 10, and they will look upon me and see the one who they pierced, and they shall mourn for him as one mourns for an only child etc.

Isaiah 63: 1-6, “Who is this coming from the city of Bozrah in Edom? Who is this so splendidly dressed in red, marching along in power and strength?” It is the Lord, powerful to save, coming to announce his victory. “Why is his clothing so red, like that of a man who tramples grapes to make wine?”
The Lord answers, “I have trampled the nations like grapes and no one came to help me. I trampled them in my anger, and their blood has stained all my clothing. I decided that the time to save my people had come; it was time to punish their enemies, I was amazed when I looked and saw that there was no one to help me. But my anger made me strong, and I won the victory myself. In my anger I trampled whole nations and shattered them, I poured out their life’s blood on the earth.”

See Zechariah 14.The Lord will come to fight for his people Israel as he has fought in times past and from within the inner most sanctuary of his tabernacle which is the body of mankind, he will fight the enemies of Israel; those Nations who surround Jerusalem in their attempt to drive God's chosen people into the sea. The Lord will throw them into a state of total confusion, and the weapons of destruction with which they would destroy Israel, he will cause them to turn upon their own allies and they shall suffer a terrible disease, the soft tissue such as their eyes and tongues will melt in their sockets, and their radiated flesh cooked to the bone, will slide from their bodies while still standing. Then all the surviving Nations will go up each year to Jerusalem in the land of Israel, to worship the Lord as King, and woe betide those who refuse to do so.

No more will the pretentious people of the world, dance and sing with their eyes and hands raised toward the empty heaven in worship of a God they neither know nor understand, then can they kiss goodbye to their majestic cathedrals of crystal and stone, for the Lord almighty shall reign in Jerusalem and all the nations of the earth will send their delegates there to pay homage to our God and our King.

Psalms 82, God presides in the heavenly council; in the assembly of the gods he gives his decisions: "You must stop judging unjustly; you must no longer be partial to the wicked! Defend the rights of the poor and the orphans; be fair to the needy and the helpless. Rescue them from the power of evil men. "How ignorant you are! How stupid! You are completely corrupt, and justice has disappeared from the world. 'You are gods,' I said; 'all of you are sons of the Most High.' But you will die like men; your life will end like any prince." Come, O God, and rule the world; all the nations are yours.

 

[Ben Dhyan]

You're reading too much into the poem my friend, I had once heard a Joke similar to that, and after my assistance was rejected by some idiot who was waiting for Gods miraculous intervention to save him, I wrote that poem over six years ago, for no other reason than the fact that I wanted to show these people who cannot see God's helping hand in the acts of ordinary people such as myself, for the fools that they are.

ahem...S-word, apart from the fact that it is not a poem, this story/joke has been around for years as I've heard that same joke or one similar to that before, and since you claim it was you that wrote it, then you must be aware of it's popularity on the internet!
If you copyrighted it then you may like to get some advice to see if you can get proper acknowledgment.
Isn't it awful the way some unrighteous souls are corrupting your original version,..helicopters instead of choppers indeed!!!

This from Yahoo Answers web site,...

The world's most stupid man?
There was a flood in a village.
One man said to everyone, "I'll stay! God will save me!"
The flood got higher and a boat came and the man in it said "Come on mate, get in!"
"No" replied the man. God will save me!
The flood got very high now and the man had to stand on the roof of his house.
A helicopter soon came and the man offered him help."
No, God will save me!" he said
Eventually he died by drowning.
He got by the gates of heaven and he said to God "Why didn't you save me?"
God replied, "For goodness sake! I sent a boat and a helicopter. What more do you want!"

And another version here from blog.beliefnet.com..

Gina do you know that joke about the person sitting on a roof after a flood waiting to be saved by God , and a row boat comes and offers help , the person says he is trusting God so no thanks , then a bigger boat comes , and offers help , and the person says he is trusting God , and then a helicopter lowers a rope , but the person says he is trusting God to get him out of the jam . Then the dam toally breaks and the person is drowned ,

In Heaven the first thing the person does is ask God how come He let him down . God looked at him like he was a nut and said I sent you a rowboat , a large boat and a helicopter to save you ,what are you talking about .
Posted by: Mick Sheldon | August 9, 2007 1:08 AM

P.S. This for the devout only, today's bible lesson is from Matthew 5.

Whoever is angry with his brother without a cause shall be in danger of the judgment. And whoever says to his brother, "You good for nothing" shall be in danger of the council. But whoever says, "You fool!" shall be in danger of losing their soul (Matt 5:22).

 

[S-word]

ahem...S-word, apart from the fact that it is not a poem, this story/joke has been around for years as I've heard that same joke or one similar to that before, and since you claim it was you that wrote it, then you must be aware of it's popularity on the internet!

If you copyrighted it then you may like to get some advice to see if you can get proper acknowledgment.
Isn't it awful the way some unrighteous souls are corrupting your original version,..helicopters instead of choppers indeed!!!

This from Yahoo Answers web site,...

The world's most stupid man?
There was a flood in a village.
One man said to everyone, "I'll stay! God will save me!"
The flood got higher and a boat came and the man in it said "Come on mate, get in!"
"No" replied the man. God will save me!
The flood got very high now and the man had to stand on the roof of his house.
A helicopter soon came and the man offered him help."
No, God will save me!" he said
Eventually he died by drowning.
He got by the gates of heaven and he said to God "Why didn't you save me?"
God replied, "For goodness sake! I sent a boat and a helicopter. What more do you want!"

And another version here from blog.beliefnet.com..

Gina do you know that joke about the person sitting on a roof after a flood waiting to be saved by God , and a row boat comes and offers help , the person says he is trusting God so no thanks , then a bigger boat comes , and offers help , and the person says he is trusting God , and then a helicopter lowers a rope , but the person says he is trusting God to get him out of the jam . Then the dam toally breaks and the person is drowned ,

In Heaven the first thing the person does is ask God how come He let him down . God looked at him like he was a nut and said I sent you a rowboat , a large boat and a helicopter to save you ,what are you talking about .
Posted by: Mick Sheldon | August 9, 2007 1:08 AM

P.S. This for the devout only, today's bible lesson is from Matthew 5.

Whoever is angry with his brother without a cause shall be in danger of the judgment. And whoever says to his brother, "You good for nothing" shall be in danger of the council. But whoever says, "You fool!" shall be in danger of losing their soul (Matt 5:22).

As I said, it was a joke that I had heard which I translated into rhyming verse, and yes it can be proven in booklets that I have sold before 2003, that this is my version of that joke which others may have thought to translate to rhyming verse themselves. This is for the devout only, today's Bible lesson is from Romans 1: 22, "They say they are wise, but they are fools; instead of worshipping the immortal God, they worship images that look like mortal man etc."

 

[zenzero]

Friend ben,

But whoever says, "You fool!" shall be in danger of losing their soul (Matt 5:22).

This has nothing to do with your response as it is understood.

Just for my personal understanding can you tell me what did Matthew mean by that statement? and if it is possible for anyone to lose one's *SOUL*?
Love & rgds

 

[Ben Dhyan]

Friend ben,
This has nothing to do with your response as it is understood.

Just for my personal understanding can you tell me what did Matthew mean by that statement? and if it is possible for anyone to lose one's *SOUL*?
Love & rgds

Good question zenzero, there are many different translations, instead of *losing their soul*, some use *burn in the fires of hell*, others *hellfire*, etc..

As to what the author meant, who knows, the necessity of reincarnation perhaps, but it certainly is meant to convey the fact that here is a karmic consequence appropriate for failing to measure up to the the new level of Divine expectation of human virtue.

FWIW, as to the context associated with this quote, it is found in the beatitudes of the Sermon on the Mount, and is meant to convey the appropriate guidelines for the new age which supersede the then archaic Mosaic Law guidelines (Ten Commandments).
For example whereas under Mosaic Law, the act of murder was required the murderer to be brought to trial, the author of Matthew was conveying the idea that the very anger that was the source of murder in a less regulated society, was the same anger that leads to someone calling their fellow man a "fool" and hence is liable to the same divine justice.
And there is an equivalent 'upgrading of Mosaic Law' for most all of the beatitudes.
What was real physical 'adultery' is now equated with lust of a another's wife. (Matthew 5:27)
What was "an eye for an eye" now requires forgiveness.(5:38)
Etc..

 

[PureX]

Justice is the illusion that all is as it should be. It is an illusion of security based on an idea of the inevitability of fairness. We humans are deeply frightened by the idea that we are not in control of the conditions of our own lives. Whenever something happens that reminds us of this lack of control, we feel that it's "unfair", and that it must be corrected in some way to re-establish our sense of control, again. We call this establishing justice.

 

[S-word]

Good question zenzero, there are many different translations, instead of *losing their soul*, some use *burn in the fires of hell*, others *hellfire*, etc..

As to what the author meant, who knows, the necessity of reincarnation perhaps, but it certainly is meant to convey the fact that here is a karmic consequence appropriate for failing to measure up to the the new level of Divine expectation of human virtue.

FWIW, as to the context associated with this quote, it is found in the beatitudes of the Sermon on the Mount, and is meant to convey the appropriate guidelines for the new age which supersede the then archaic Mosaic Law guidelines (Ten Commandments).
For example whereas under Mosaic Law, the act of murder was required the murderer to be brought to trial, the author of Matthew was conveying the idea that the very anger that was the source of murder in a less regulated society, was the same anger that leads to someone calling their fellow man a "fool" and hence is liable to the same divine justice.
And there is an equivalent 'upgrading of Mosaic Law' for most all of the beatitudes.
What was real physical 'adultery' is now equated with lust of a another's wife. (Matthew 5:27)
What was "an eye for an eye" now requires forgiveness.(5:38)
Etc..

Do you suppose that calling someone 'Ignorant and stupid,' could be clacified in the same catorgory as calling someone a fool?

Psalms 82, God presides in the heavenly council; in the assembly of the gods he gives his decisions: "You must stop judging unjustly; you must no longer be partial to the wicked! Defend the rights of the poor and the orphans; be fair to the needy and the helpless. Rescue them from the power of evil men. "How ignorant you are! How stupid! You are completely corrupt, and justice has disappeared from the world. 'You are gods,' I said; 'all of you are sons of the Most High.' But you will die like men; your life will end like any prince." Come, O God, and rule the world; all the nations are yours.

 

[Smoke]

What an idiotic statement! Of course the execution of the person who has murdered your entire family will not undo that which had been done, but you can rest assured that the person who knowingly and deliberately took the life of your family, and who had forfieted their own right to live, aint never ganna murder no one elses family, which they could and more than likely would, if it was up to those who don't want a person to be held accountable for their actions.

I don't think a person who read my post as any kind of comment on crime and punishment, much less an argument against any particular policy, is in any position to talk about talk about idiocy. I was talking about how to behave justly, not about how to react to injustice.

And no, executing the person who murdered you entire family is not justice -- not for you, and not for your family. Justice would be having your family unharmed, and that's something that's unattainable after the fact. That doesn't mean there should be no repercussions for murderers, and I can't imagine what kind of disordered mind would read it that way.

 

[DarkSun]

You're reading too much into the poem my friend, I had once heard a Joke similar to that, and after my assistance was rejected by some idiot who was waiting for Gods miraculous intervention to save him, I wrote that poem over six years ago, for no other reason than the fact that I wanted to show these people who cannot see God's helping hand in the acts of ordinary people such as myself, for the fools that they are.

It wasn't altogether very original. I received an e-mail that told the same story as that poem about four years ago, except it wasn't in verse form. Did you get a similar e-mail, I wonder?

 

[DarkSun]

Quote....DarkSun-----He causes his sun to rise on the evil and the good, and sends rain on the righteous and the unrighteous.In reference to the time when the Lord will have established his ultimate rule in Jerusalem, from where he shall rule the whole world with JUSTICE: Zechariah 14: 17, “And it shall be, that whosoever will not come up of all the families of the earth unto Jerusalem to worship the King, the Lord of hosts, even upon them shall there be no rain. You really don’t understand the salvation as revealed in the Holy Scriptures, do you?

David, who prepared the way for the peaceful rule of his son, of whom God said, “He is the one who will build the Temple for me, and I shall be his Father and he shall be my Son,” gathered to himself all the dregs and misfits of society and brought all the hostile nations surrounding Jerusalem into submission, to kneel before his son.

Malachi 3: 1, the Lord almighty answers, “I will send my messenger to prepare the way for me. Then the Lord you are looking for will suddenly come to his Temple. The messenger you long to see will come and proclaim my covenant.” But who will be able to endure the day when he comes? Who will be able to survive when he appears? Zechariah 13: 7, The Lord Almighty says, “Wake up Sword, and attack the shepherd who works for me! The worthless shepherd that the Lord rose up, after he had been paid his majestic wage of thirty pieces of silver.

O! You shepherd of the darkness who claims God sent You out
And even though we know that’s true, that fact I wouldn’t flout
For God commanded Zechariah, “Throw my wages ‘cross the floor,
Those thirty bits of silver, for I’ll guide this flock no more
A worthless shepherd now I’ll raise to guide this stubborn flock
And he will be a useless one, of him I’ll take no stock
For he’ll not feed my little ones, nor search for them that’s lost
But he eats the meat of the fattest sheep: and their hoofs? He tears them off
That worthless shepherd, he is doomed for abandoning my flock
His power, will I destroy by war, his arm will wither dry, then drop
And his right eye will I turn Blind, that’s why he’s never seen
The passage where I speak of him, Zechariah eleven—twelve to seventeen.....By S-word


The spiritual cells of the body of our saviour who rose Jesus from death as the first fruits, whose spiritual body was poured out as fire on all those who believed the words of our saviour as spoken through his obedient servant Jesus who spoke not one word on his own authority, but only that which he was commanded by our saviour, which spiritual cells have been gathering to themselves all the spirits of good people who have fallen asleep in righteousness, are soon to be reborn on earth, as the risen body of our Lord, who will take the thrones that have been prepared for them and rule the Lord’s day=the Sabbath, the seventh period of one thousand years from the day when Adam ate of the forbidden fruit and died on that day at the age of 930.

We are now at the close of the sixth day, as we await the messenger of the lord who butchered the false prophets of Baal and who will prepare the way for the peaceful rule of the body of our Lord.

Soon you will see my God execute his Justice in this world. Soon will be fulfilled the prophecy in Numbers 24: 17, “A king, like a bright star, will arise in that Nation. Like a comet he will come from Israel. He will strike the leaders of Moab and beat down all the people of Seth. He will conquer his enemies in Edom and make their land his property. While Israel continues victorious. The Nation of Israel will trample them down and wipe out the last survivors.” It will be on that great day of tribulation that is prophesied to occur before the day of the Lord, when the Lord gathers all the nations around Jerusalem.

Zechariah 12: 10, and they will look upon me and see the one who they pierced, and they shall mourn for him as one mourns for an only child etc.

Isaiah 63: 1-6, “Who is this coming from the city of Bozrah in Edom? Who is this so splendidly dressed in red, marching along in power and strength?” It is the Lord, powerful to save, coming to announce his victory. “Why is his clothing so red, like that of a man who tramples grapes to make wine?”
The Lord answers, “I have trampled the nations like grapes and no one came to help me. I trampled them in my anger, and their blood has stained all my clothing. I decided that the time to save my people had come; it was time to punish their enemies, I was amazed when I looked and saw that there was no one to help me. But my anger made me strong, and I won the victory myself. In my anger I trampled whole nations and shattered them, I poured out their life’s blood on the earth.”

See Zechariah 14.The Lord will come to fight for his people Israel as he has fought in times past and from within the inner most sanctuary of his tabernacle which is the body of mankind, he will fight the enemies of Israel; those Nations who surround Jerusalem in their attempt to drive God's chosen people into the sea. The Lord will throw them into a state of total confusion, and the weapons of destruction with which they would destroy Israel, he will cause them to turn upon their own allies and they shall suffer a terrible disease, the soft tissue such as their eyes and tongues will melt in their sockets, and their radiated flesh cooked to the bone, will slide from their bodies while still standing. Then all the surviving Nations will go up each year to Jerusalem in the land of Israel, to worship the Lord as King, and woe betide those who refuse to do so.

No more will the pretentious people of the world, dance and sing with their eyes and hands raised toward the empty heaven in worship of a God they neither know nor understand, then can they kiss goodbye to their majestic cathedrals of crystal and stone, for the Lord almighty shall reign in Jerusalem and all the nations of the earth will send their delegates there to pay homage to our God and our King.

Psalms 82, God presides in the heavenly council; in the assembly of the gods he gives his decisions: "You must stop judging unjustly; you must no longer be partial to the wicked! Defend the rights of the poor and the orphans; be fair to the needy and the helpless. Rescue them from the power of evil men. "How ignorant you are! How stupid! You are completely corrupt, and justice has disappeared from the world. 'You are gods,' I said; 'all of you are sons of the Most High.' But you will die like men; your life will end like any prince." Come, O God, and rule the world; all the nations are yours.

The Old Testament is intended for perspective, and it's not to be taken completely literally. As it is, most of those quotes conflict with what Jesus himself preached: to love your enemies and pray for those who persecute you. To me, that's enough to reject the teachings of violence, discord, anger and aggression that exist in the Old Testament.

 

[Sunstone]

...I can't imagine what kind of disordered mind would read it that way.

Neither can I.

 

[S-word]

The Old Testament is intended for perspective, and it's not to be taken completely literally. As it is, most of those quotes conflict with what Jesus himself preached: to love your enemies and pray for those who persecute you. To me, that's enough to reject the teachings of violence, discord, anger and aggression that exist in the Old Testament.

Then keep your eye on Israel, in this, which is according to the Biblical timetable, the close of the sixth period of one thousand years from the day in which Adam ate of the forbidden fruit and in which day he died at the age of 930, and you will see if the words spoken by the 'Omega' who is well aware of everything that has happened in his past, is completely literal, for we are not speaking of a prophecy that may or may not happen in the unknown future, we are speaking of an event that has occured in the dead past of the 'OMega.'

For soon you will see the justice of God at work, (Justice: due reward for treatment handed out; the administration of and procedure of law. 'Thou shalt not kill).

Do you believe that the words of the New Testament are also not to be taken literally, then read Mark 13: 5 to 27. Acts 17: 31, "For God has fixed a day in which he will Judge the whole world with justice,(JUSTICE: Administering the procedure of the Law, and handing out the just reward for the actions of the Nations of this world) by means of a man he has chosen. he has given proof of this to everyone by raising that Man from death.

 

[DarkSun]

Then keep your eye on Israel, in this, which is according to the Biblical timetable, the close of the sixth period of one thousand years from the day in which Adam ate of the forbidden fruit and in which day he died at the age of 930, and you will see if the words spoken by the 'Omega' who is well aware of everything that has happened in his past, is completely literal, for we are not speaking of a prophecy that may or may not happen in the unknown future, we are speaking of an event that has occured in the dead past of the 'OMega.'

For soon you will see the justice of God at work, (Justice: due reward for treatment handed out; the administration of and procedure of law. 'Thou shalt not kill).

Do you believe that the words of the New Testament are also not to be taken literally, then read Mark 13: 5 to 27. Acts 17: 31, "For God has fixed a day in which he will Judge the whole world with justice,(JUSTICE: Administering the procedure of the Law, and handing out the just reward for the actions of the Nations of this world) by means of a man he has chosen. he has given proof of this to everyone by raising that Man from death.

Jesus said to them: "Watch out that no one deceives you. Many will come in my name, claiming, 'I am he,' and will deceive many. When you hear of wars and rumors of wars, do not be alarmed. Such things must happen, but the end is still to come. Nation will rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom. There will be earthquakes in various places, and famines. These are the beginning of birth pains.

"You must be on your guard. You will be handed over to the local councils and flogged in the synagogues. On account of me you will stand before governors and kings as witnesses to them. And the gospel must first be preached to all nations. Whenever you are arrested and brought to trial, do not worry beforehand about what to say. Just say whatever is given you at the time, for it is not you speaking, but the Holy Spirit.



"Brother will betray brother to death, and a father his child. Children will rebel against their parents and have them put to death. All men will hate you because of me, but he who stands firm to the end will be saved.



"When you see 'the abomination that causes desolation' standing where it does not belong—let the reader understand—then let those who are in Judea flee to the mountains. Let no one on the roof of his house go down or enter the house to take anything out. Let no one in the field go back to get his cloak. How dreadful it will be in those days for pregnant women and nursing mothers! Pray that this will not take place in winter, because those will be days of distress unequaled from the beginning, when God created the world, until now—and never to be equaled again. If the Lord had not cut short those days, no one would survive. But for the sake of the elect, whom he has chosen, he has shortened them.


At that time if anyone says to you, 'Look, here is the Christ!' or, 'Look, there he is!' do not believe it. For false Christs and false prophets will appear and perform signs and miracles to deceive the elect—if that were possible. So be on your guard; I have told you everything ahead of time.

"But in those days, following that distress,
" 'the sun will be darkened,
and the moon will not give its light;
the stars will fall from the sky,
and the heavenly bodies will be shaken.'
​

"At that time men will see the Son of Man coming in clouds with great power and glory. And he will send his angels and gather his elect from the four winds, from the ends of the earth to the ends of the heavens.

For he has set a day when he will judge the world with justice by the man he has appointed. He has given proof of this to all men by raising him from the dead."

These scriptures speak of God's right to judge. It is God's right, and his alone. Mankind isn't mentioned anywhere in either of those texts, which makes them irrelevant to what you're trying to say.