What is life?

[Runewolf1973]

You only gave me definitions of forces, that is not evidence that those forces cause life.

It is my personal theory that those forces (Fundamental Interactions) are the starting point for those more complex interactions we call life.

 

[Runewolf1973]

You only gave me definitions of forces, that is not evidence that those forces cause life.

The fact that those complex interactions we call life could not exist without those forces is evidence enough.

 

[Sonofason]

God is a figment of people's imagination, unlike the Fundamental Forces which are proven fact. Energy can neither be created, nor destroyed, only change form. That basically means to me that the forces of nature and all this "stuff" which occupies space is eternal, it just changes form.

It looks like we are at in impasse. You say the fundamental forces are a proven fact. I suppose in a sense, they are. But you do not know why or how they exist. You do not know what causes them to exist. You can say that they are simply properties of matter, but you cannot tell me why. I say they exist because God exists. Without an explanation for their existence, you might as well just call them God. At this point you are simply making an observation that something consistent is happening, and you don't know why. So you've given it the name Fundamental Forces. People experience God. I experience God, but I don't know why or how God exists. You believe fundamental forces exist because you experience them. I believe God exists because I experience Him.

Here is an example of what I am saying. If I drop my coffee cup from some elevation above the floor, I see it will fall to the floor. Simplistically, for the purpose of this example, the definition of gravity is stuff falls to the floor. When we use a definition, what we are doing is replacing a lengthy phrase with a single word which means the same thing. So we might ask, why does stuff fall to the floor? You would say, well, stuff falls to the floor because of gravity. In other words, all you are saying is that stuff falls to the floor because stuff falls to the floor. You have no explanation. These forces you are referring to are nothing but a simplified version of an observation, not an explanation at all. Why? Because you don't know why.

 

[Runewolf1973]

It looks like we are at in impasse. You say the fundamental forces are a proven fact. I suppose in a sense, they are. But you do not know why or how they exist. You do not know what causes them to exist. You can say that they are simply properties of matter, but you cannot tell me why. I say they exist because God exists. Without an explanation for their existence, you might as well just call them God. At this point you are simply making an observation that something consistent is happening, and you don't know why. So you've given it the name Fundamental Forces. People experience God. I experience God, but I don't know why or how God exists. You believe fundamental forces exist because you experience them. I believe God exists because I experience Him.

Here is an example of what I am saying. If I drop my coffee cup from some elevation above the floor, I see it will fall to the floor. Simplistically, for the purpose of this example, the definition of gravity is stuff falls to the floor. When we use a definition, what we are doing is replacing a lengthy phrase with a single word which means the same thing. So we might ask, why does stuff fall to the floor? You would say, well, stuff falls to the floor because of gravity. In other words, all you are saying is that stuff falls to the floor because stuff falls to the floor. You have no explanation. These forces you are referring to are nothing but a simplified version of an observation, not an explanation at all. Why? Because you don't know why.

Saying "I don't know" is far better than making unproven yet cocksure claims that some omnipotent being (God) was the cause simply because you and some others had an "experience". I would venture to say that those "experiences" you and others had were brought about by natural forces, not something supernatural

 

[URAVIP2ME]

What has caused God to always exist?

God is Creator meaning there is No creator above the Creator. According to Scripture God is from everlasting. If there was a cause then God would Not be Creator. The cause would then be the Creator. Since the Creator is the cause then God, as Creator, is the cause of all existence. Eternity is in our hearts and minds. For each second we count we can count forwards and backwards forever and ever. God being from everlasting has immortal life within Himself. Nothing caused God to always exist just that immortal God always did and will exist.

 

[URAVIP2ME]

God is a figment of people's imagination, unlike the Fundamental Forces which are proven fact. Energy can neither be created, nor destroyed, only change form. That basically means to me that the forces of nature and all this "stuff" which occupies space is eternal, it just changes form.

Didn't Adam change form ? ______ Adam was created from the dust of the ground, and dead Adam ' returned ' to the dust of the ground - Genesis 3:19
God used His energy to breath the 'breath of life' into lifeless Adam - Genesis 2:7; Psalms 104:30
Scripture says Almighty God has 'power and strength' (aka energy) which He used to create both the invisible realm of the heavens and our material realm of existence.

 

[URAVIP2ME]

Saying "I don't know" is far better than making unproven yet cocksure claims that some omnipotent being (God) was the cause simply because you and some others had an "experience". I would venture to say that those "experiences" you and others had were brought about by natural forces, not something supernatural

First of all, please keep in mind that Scripture does Not teach an omnipotent God because there are things God can Not do such as: God can Not lie - Titus 1:2; Hebrews 6:18

Was there energy behind the Big Bang ?_______
If there was, according to Scripture God supplied that needed 'power and strength' (dynamic energy) to create the material/physical realm - Isaiah 40:26; Jeremiah 10:12; Jeremiah 27:5; Jeremiah 32:17

 

[URAVIP2ME]

I would say I have no way of knowing if animals have a spiritual side as people sometimes have.
And I would say, I do not know if animals have the ability to pray or give thanks to God before a meal.
Suggesting anything beyond that would be quite presumptuous and even dishonest, because no one knows. Since it is simply a belief you have, I would suggest calling it a belief.

Did anyone ever observe an animal pausing in prayer before eating to give thanks to God ? _______
Animals go by instinct whereas, unless damaged, humans come equipped with a built-in conscience to learn about spiritual matters.
What animal can display the personality of Christ Jesus ?
However, humans, if they want, can be identified by having self-sacrificing love as Jesus had - John 13:34-35

 

[Runewolf1973]

God is Creator meaning there is No creator above the Creator. According to Scripture God is from everlasting. If there was a cause then God would Not be Creator. The cause would then be the Creator. Since the Creator is the cause then God, as Creator, is the cause of all existence. Eternity is in our hearts and minds. For each second we count we can count forwards and backwards forever and ever. God being from everlasting has immortal life within Himself. Nothing caused God to always exist just that immortal God always did and will exist.

And God is what specifically? Energy? A Fundamental Force? A being?

 

[Sonofason]

The fact that those complex interactions we call life could not exist without those forces is evidence enough.

Saying "I don't know" is far better than making unproven yet cocksure claims that some omnipotent being (God) was the cause simply because you and some others had an "experience". I would venture to say that those "experiences" you and others had were brought about by natural forces, not something supernatural

Climb out on that limb as far as you like. When it breaks, that will be that.

 

[Runewolf1973]

Climb out on that limb as far as you like. When it breaks, that will be that.

I am not the one who is climbing out on a limb reaching for something that I cannot see or prove to be there. I want to know what that limb is made of, how strong it is...and I also want to know what is at the end of it before I climb out. It is you who climbs out on that limb blindly with faith. When you do climb out on that limb however, remember one thing...that Fundamental Force called gravity.

 

[Sonofason]

Did anyone ever observe an animal pausing in prayer before eating to give thanks to God ? _______
Animals go by instinct whereas, unless damaged, humans come equipped with a built-in conscience to learn about spiritual matters.
What animal can display the personality of Christ Jesus ?
However, humans, if they want, can be identified by having self-sacrificing love as Jesus had - John 13:34-35

http://thewondrous.com/wp-content/u...ingsbefreeadaptedOccupyWallStreet-600x749.jpg

 

[Sonofason]

I am not the one who is climbing out on a limb reaching for something that I cannot see or prove to be there. I want to know what that limb is made of, how strong it is...and I also want to know what is at the end of it before I climb out. It is you who climbs out on that limb blindly with faith. When you do climb out on that limb however, remember one thing...that Fundamental Force called gravity.

But you were the one venturing to make statements about other people's experiences without having a shred of evidence to support your claim.

 

[Sonofason]

It is my personal theory that those forces (Fundamental Interactions) are the starting point for those more complex interactions we call life.

And once again, tell my why those fundamental forces exist?

 

[Runewolf1973]

But you were the one venturing to make statements about other people's experiences without having a shred of evidence to support your claim.

There is plenty of evidence, but I cannot show it to someone who is blinded by their own faith.

 

[Runewolf1973]

And once again, tell my why those fundamental forces exist?

It is possible they have always existed.

 

[Sonofason]

There is plenty of evidence, but I cannot show it to someone who is blinded by their own faith.

And I cannot show evidence of God to someone who is blinded by their own faith.

 

[Sonofason]

It is possible they have always existed.

Worthless conjecture at best.

 

[Runewolf1973]

And I cannot show evidence of God to someone who is blinded by their own faith.

Sorry if I am not willing to crawl out on that limb with you. That limb is untestable and therefore I do not trust it.

 

[Runewolf1973]

Worthless conjecture at best.

Same as you say that God has always existed...worthless conjecture. Truthfully...we don't know.