McBell
Unbound
The exact same way God did...
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what is more likely?
- Thread starter hornsby
- Start date
Ya but....God did not "get" anywhere. God IS.
Ouroboros
Coincidentia oppositorum
After taken a couple of college level classes in anthropology, I'm totally convinced that Evolution is true. It's beyond belief. To me, it's an obvious fact now that I can't reason away. Besides that, there's no good explanation to how we can be aware and identify ourselves and our experience just from a "mechanical" viewpoint, and animals shows similar abilities on different levels, which leads me to believe that this universe has more to it than just matter, energy, processes, etc. It also has the potential for awareness. It took me 40 years to get to this point. It all makes more sense now than ever.
The Earth is turning. Why does the monkey stay over the city? What is the monkey doing?
McBell
Unbound
Same with the Monkey...
McBell
Unbound
Unlike many of the followers of God, I do not presume to speak for the Monkey.
You must ask the Monkey and if the Monkey deems you worthy, the Monkey may answer.
Kilgore Trout
Misanthropic Humanist
I did. It didn't.
Blackdog22
Well-Known Member
I need help understanding why people would consider the most basic building block we can possibly conceive of and the most complex thing we can possibly conceive of and consider them both 50/50 to have come first.
If you are taught in the theory of evolution, which is a fact, then the idea that the most complex thing came first makes no sense, its insensible, its illogical, it is putting yourself at odds with reality. Which is fine, but the actual world doesn't say that first came the Earth then the atom, nor does the idea that a scenario infinitely more lopsided than that, being God came before the most basic building block, make sense. In fact it should make infinitely less sense.
How do you latch onto to such an improbable possibility or perhaps you can show why my thinking is wrong.
If you are taught in the theory of evolution, which is a fact, then the idea that the most complex thing came first makes no sense, its insensible, its illogical, it is putting yourself at odds with reality. Which is fine, but the actual world doesn't say that first came the Earth then the atom, nor does the idea that a scenario infinitely more lopsided than that, being God came before the most basic building block, make sense. In fact it should make infinitely less sense.
How do you latch onto to such an improbable possibility or perhaps you can show why my thinking is wrong.
I do not understand what you are saying. Evolution (which is true) happens because of (I shall call it) the stage or setting of anything. Where did it come from? In other words, where did all the many perfect circumstances that were required and are required for anything to exist come from?
OK You got me. LOL
I have asked the monkey why he floats over one city. This is what he said: If I leave this city I will forget it for the next. There is one thing I fear. It is forgetting. So I stay.
Blackdog22
Well-Known Member
That is the most fascinating question. I think that is where our arguments meet. No matter what, something either always was or came from nothing (Whatever nothing might be). This alone is hard to comprehend, but it is the only possibility unless there are others that we aren't aware of.
Given that something amazing happened, being something always being or coming from nothing, if this is the case we then decide what would be more likely. We have instances of particles coming in and out of existence seemingly literally coming from nowhere. This is a possible starting point for the beginnings of our Universe and is the idea that I am behind.
On the other hand we have the notion that the most complex thing ever conceived always was or has been. Take your brain and times that by infinity.
The first would make sense with how reality is presented to us. The second would be reality going in reverse. (The most complex thing to the least complex thing that then evolved into more complex things).
I find it difficult to stand behind option 2 because we have instances of very basic particles popping up, but we don't have examples of airplanes X infinity popping out of nothing.
While option 2 is difficult for me to get behind it doesn't necessarily mean it couldn't be the case.
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What is
?
?
Is the "most complex thing" you refer to the possibility of The Brain of God?
Blackdog22
Well-Known Member
If that is what you would call it. I don't hold onto the idea of a God and there are many ideas of him. He is generally considered beyond us and omnipotent/omniscient. Of course some views of God are as simple as a rock, so I am not sure where those people would stand on this issue, but yes. If you feel your God created us then I would refer to whatever your idea of that God is.
I have never once thought God is the most complex thing. I never thought God is a thing and I have not found believing is complex. I do not presume to know The God. I know Christ. Through what I know about Yehoshua I am getting to know The God of Yehoshua. Nothing about them is complex. Mysterious, yes.
This is what I found when I looked up "complex".
Those are good words to describe The God that I think I know.
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Blackdog22
Well-Known Member
What is more complex than your God or do you simply think there is an equal to him? What else is omnipotent/omniscient? (I am doing a bit of assuming on your take of God since you mentioned your following of Jesus)
I would ask what source you got that defined complex as simple.
Does it also define hot as cold?
The official description as the dictionary I am using defines it as: so complicated or intricate as to be hard to understand or deal with
Here is my source if you have any objections. Complex | Define Complex at Dictionary.com
edit: I am off to work will be back on later.
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An antonym is an opposite. So when I looked up "complex" it is what I found that best suits the personality of The One I (think) I know. You seemed to have read over that word. It is something that my God never does.
What is more complex than your God or do you simply think there is an equal to him? What else is omnipotent/omniscient? (I am doing a bit of assuming on your take of God since you mentioned your following of Jesus)
I would ask what source you got that defined complex as simple.
Does it also define hot as cold?
The official description as the dictionary I am using defines it as: so complicated or intricate as to be hard to understand or deal with
Here is my source if you have any objections. Complex | Define Complex at Dictionary.com
edit: I am off to work will be back on later.
The Earth and the universe both are more complex than God. The brain is more complex than God. A cell is too. I think that attempting to define God is a sin. I don't do it. I sometimes have tried to describe God which I have done here but I think defining and describing are different.
I see you are yet another person who does not hold mainstream beliefs.....lots of interesting types on these religious forums representing a variety of customized and detailed fringe beliefs.
i have never heard someone claim god is less complex than his creation or limiting god to doing "one thing" or having "one function" "one way" not sure whether you are just saying this to get out of a sticky situation, or if this is truly your belief, but
my question mainly addresses mainstream believers that make up the majority of theists on the planet today, so in the interest of not cluttering this thread i will let you go... much like i did with the panentheist, and the person holding eastern religious views...