What is nothingness?

[ratiocinator]

You are correct, according to current thinking. Absolute nothingness is like what is north of the
North Pole.
It's interesting. One idea is that time is created as the universe expands. Fact is - we don't know
what time actually is, let alone how it works or where it comes from. Maybe it's a field like many
other things are fields.

We actually have a well tested theory of time, space, and gravitation: General Relativity. According to that we live in a space-time manifold and time is a direction through it. The unknown that I think you're referring to is about the arrow or time; why time has a direction.

But the main game in cosmology now is that the universe had a "beginning" and it will have an
"end." It's not eternal.

But (assuming GR is substantially correct) in a very real sense it is eternal. The space-time manifold (in its entirety) just exists, time being internal to it. It neither started to exist nor will it cease to exist because those things require time and time is just a direction through it.

 

[PruePhillip]

We actually have a well tested theory of time, space, and gravitation: General Relativity. According to that we live in a space-time manifold and time is a direction through it. The unknown that I think you're referring to is about the arrow or time; why time has a direction.



But (assuming GR is substantially correct) in a very real sense it is eternal. The space-time manifold (in its entirety) just exists, time being internal to it. It neither started to exist nor will it cease to exist because those things require time and time is just a direction through it.

Sure, it's super interesting. But there's a bit of circular reasoning going on here.
You are saying we don't understand the "arrow" of time but we need this "arrow"
to explain the universe.
If I recall the "arrow" has something to do with thermodynamics.
But then, why can't thermodynamics RELY upon time? We don't know,.
I wonder if time is simply another property of the universe. And when the universe
came into being it created time like it created energy - this suggests process was
going on WITHOUT TIME.

 

[shunyadragon]

You are saying we don't understand the "arrow" of time but we need this "arrow"
to explain the universe.

No. need? The arrow of time simply exists in a the time/space relationship of our universe,

If I recall the "arrow" has something to do with thermodynamics.

No

But then, why can't thermodynamics RELY upon time? We don't know,.
I wonder if time is simply another property of the universe. And when the universe
came into being it created time like it created energy - this suggests process was
going on WITHOUT TIME.

Well, ah . . . the above is a bit confusing, but yes our time/space universe did arise out of the boundless and timeless (without the arrow of time) Quantum World.

 

[Thief]

It is not even remotely possible that there is some sort absolutely nothing beyond this.

so much for a discussion about ….nothing

you think there is ...something

 

[shunyadragon]

so much for a discussion about ….nothing

you think there is ...something

The only objective verifiable evidence demonstrates a Quantum World at the smallest possible scale, which is something. Beyond this it is metaphysical speculation.

 

[Thief]

The only objective verifiable evidence demonstrates a Quantum World at the smallest possible scale, which is something. Beyond this it is metaphysical speculation.

scratches on a chalkboard as evidence?

I don't believe that

and placing the primordial singularity in a petri dish is not
an available experiement

 

[Thief]

if we could reverse the expansion ….draw all of the universe back to the point of origin...
Genesis

all we can do with numbers would be useless

 

[shunyadragon]

scratches on a chalkboard as evidence?

I don't believe that

True, scratches on the chalkboard are not evidence.
, especially those made by cats. Welcome to the real world scientists do not use chalkboards.

and placing the primordial singularity in a petri dish is not
an available experiement

No petri dish used. You are way way out in left field bleachers, and out of touch with basic science and reality.

 

[Thief]

True, scratches on the chalkboard are not evidence.
, especially those made by cats. Welcome to the real world scientists do not use chalkboards.



No petri dish used. You are way way out in left field bleachers, and out of touch with basic science and reality.

I make more denial

that you need the crutch of what you believe to be science

doesn't mean I have failed

it matters not to me....how you believe

 

[Thief]

No. need? The arrow of time simply exists in a the time/space relationship of our universe,

time is a measure of movement

movement is required for the measure

no movement......no time

 

[shunyadragon]

I make more denial

that you need the crutch of what you believe to be science

doesn't mean I have failed

it matters not to me....how you believe

Vapor lock air ball.

 

[Thief]

Vapor lock air ball.

vapor is something

the topic is …...nothing

 

[shunyadragon]

time is a measure of movement.

movement is required for the measure

no movement......no time

No it is not. Time simply exists without measurement.

Your short nonsense answers are meaningless.

 

[shunyadragon]

vapor is something

the topic is …...nothing

Pop!

 

[osgart]

I need no more proof of time as a real thing than the process of aging. You know, wear and tear on the body.

If there were no time I wouldn't age. Every moment runs into the next.

 

[Thief]

No it is not. Time simply exists without measurement.

Your short nonsense answers are meaningless.

time is not a force or a substance

it is a cognitive device created by Man to serve Man

 

[Thief]

I need no more proof of time as a real thing than the process of aging. You know, wear and tear on the body.

If there were no time I wouldn't age. Every moment runs into the next.

you are aging because your chemistry has limitations

picture the copy machine making an image of you
take the copy and print another
take the copy and print another

you body cells are doing just that

eventually.....your image fades
and you will not be …..all that you used to be

 

[Thief]

Pop!

no.....more like.....

BANG!

 

[ratiocinator]

You are saying we don't understand the "arrow" of time but we need this "arrow"
to explain the universe.

No. Regardless causes the arrow of time, the evidence is that time is a direction through the space-time manifold.

If I recall the "arrow" has something to do with thermodynamics.

That's one hypothesis.

But then, why can't thermodynamics RELY upon time?

It obviously does. Not sure what you're suggesting.

I wonder if time is simply another property of the universe. And when the universe
came into being it created time like it created energy - this suggests process was
going on WITHOUT TIME.

Now you've really lost me. Time is a property of the universe; part of the space-time manifold. Energy is something else entirely. How do you think a "process" can happen without time?

 

[Thief]

Time is a property of the universe;

nope....

it is not a force or a substance

just a quotient

numbers in your head