What is Perfect?

[JustGeorge]

I cut it into slices which I wrap in pairs, nose to tail, and take to my father every week. He has it with his tea in the afternoons. I make one every week so I can easily save you some. Not sure how to get it to you, though. Perhaps when you come over for that wine drinking and peeing contest.............

That's wonderful that you do that for him.

I keep trying to fill up the ol' bladder in preparation for the contest, but I keep having to empty it again...

I find it really regretful some nights that the bathroom is on the second floor...

 

[exchemist]

That's wonderful that you do that for him.

I keep trying to fill up the ol' bladder in preparation for the contest, but I keep having to empty it again...

I find it really regretful some nights that the bathroom is on the second floor...

Haha, tell me about it! As a man in his 60s, I keep in mind advice given to my brother by his father-in-law: "Never miss an opportunity to pee." (His other piece of advice was "And never waste an erection". )

 

[exchemist]

That's wonderful that you do that for him.

I keep trying to fill up the ol' bladder in preparation for the contest, but I keep having to empty it again...

I find it really regretful some nights that the bathroom is on the second floor...

By the way, I see you've gone bananas.

 

[JustGeorge]

Haha, tell me about it! As a man in his 60s, I keep in mind advice given to my brother by his father-in-law: "Never miss an opportunity to pee." (His other piece of advice was "And never waste an erection". )

We were alarmed when my middle son started going out the backdoor and peeing in the yard, until I realized the trouble was he didn't want to walk up the stairs, either... I just had to show him a better place to do it than the deck... (with that kid, you have to know what battles to choose, and how to fight them)

It sounds like your brother and my husband have things in common...

By the way, I see you've gone bananas.

I think we all saw that coming...

 

[BilliardsBall]

This should be quite an interesting topic to discuss. As you may know by now I believe in Exaltism, and try to raise the honor of my family and friends. It seems like every time I talk about God, however, I throw in the word perfect. Why? Because it seems like every religion admits that God is perfect. According to Christianity, they say Jesus is perfect. According to Muslims, God is perfect, and not Muhammad, but Muhammad was the last prophet of a perfect God.

So where does that leave atheists and agnostics? If we apply the same logic, is it then impossible for an atheist to believe in perfection? And how about agnostics? Do agnostics believe that what is perfect is unknowable to themselves and others? And how about the anti-theists? Are they against perfection? I surely know what's perfect for myself. I've spent my entire life trying to make my life more perfect than it was in the past. And while I don't have the standard typical family, car or job I've taken what I've could, built up the most capital I've been able to while being on welfare and did the most things I could due to my mental illness.

I view theology like a perfect Spotify playlist. Some people have one perfect playlist they listen to over and over. Others have many. Some playlists have a thousand songs, others have ten. So while I view divinity as completely subjective in the needs and hands of others, I sincerely believe that things can improve and get better. I spend a lot of time creating Spotify playlists, making them perfect to listen to, publicize them and then I'll put them on shuffle. I'll spend hours crafting playlists and then spend hours listening to my creations.

Is there a perfect Spotify playlist? There are certain playlists that are perfect for me at almost any time of day, and I listen to them routinely. But for other people their perfect Spotify playlist would contain different music or be on a different service, like Deezer or Apple Music. And some people don't listen to music at all or are deaf.

To me what is perfect isn't necessarily the person but the environment they exist in. I live in poverty but I did my best to advocate for myself to put me in the best place I could thrive in: the suburbs. Most people I know in my complex are old and poor, but they're good people nonetheless trying to make their lives better before they pass away. There is low crime where I live, but I still live in an area which allows me access to my basic needs and healthcare when I need it.

If God is perfection, and what that perfection means to people can be different, then people are going to have different views of what God is. The atheist tends to be unassuming of what perfection means, or rather not to believe in perfection at all. And in Christianity there are "born again experiences" and "entire sanctification" moments that appear to me to be sacrilegious from a Christian standpoint because if you are entirely sanctified then why does that person still need Jesus? That's always confused me.

And yes, I recently changed my religious status from "Exaltism" to "Perfectionism", mostly because I was reading up what a perfectionist is, from a psychological standpoint and if it matches up with me very well from a theological standpoint as well. I want things to be perfect. And I'm trying my best to achieve those results for me in my life currently. I've learned things even recently, like drinking caffeine just before going to sleep is awful not because I can't sleep, but because the quality of sleep diminishes.

I believe that life is one big moment happening right now, weaving in and out of the good and the bad. Somethings get better, somethings get worse but it's up to all of us to find what works best for our current situations. Is my life perfect? No, far from it, but I know my limitations and how much I'm able to do as well. I know for a fact that if I go back to college now because my local community college now offers free tuition, I will fail miserably so I avoid taking it up. I prefer to be autodidactic anyways and learn what is important to me.

The atheist comedians and scientists that have been around for a long time, people like the late Christopher Hitchens and George Carlin, seem to be very negative to me and can't imagine anything the might be perfect. Whether it's a perfect past, present or future. I have a bias against atheism because I see them as pessimistic and nihilistic. I have an antitheist friend who brings himself down constantly because he can't imagine anything worth any amount of value to himself. But at the same time the way Christians view perfection, it's only accruable towards their own self-interest.

So where does that leave me and my theology? Maybe the Gods in various religions aren't perfect. Maybe the Abrahamic model is flawed and the God of these religions actually do more harm than good. In fact, according to the Bible, God killed millions of people. I don't see a consistent logical argument from that standpoint that also believes that God is perfect.

But what I do see throughout my life is that humans, if they work together, find ways to make their lives and their loved ones lives better. From satisfying the basic needs for each other to finding new ways to enhance the experience of life we as humans are always looking for what is and can be perfect.

Is anything truly perfect? I would argue that perfection does exist - but is always changing. And is completely subjective at the same time. I might listen to Pandora or Sirius XM, find the new killer song that I like, and then add it to my perfect Spotify playlists. But to say that perfection doesn't exist shows that there's nothing to strive for throughout our lives. I sincerely and deeply hope that whatever your theological view points are, you look for something that is better than what you currently have right now and you obtain it. Whether that is seeking a perfect being, being perfect yourself or finding a perfect environment for you to live in.

How would you answer this question? To you, what is perfect and how do we achieve it? Is looking for perfection in ourselves, in our environments and others fruitful or a waste of time? Let me know what you think below.

P.S.

I always strive for perfect communication, especially on thread starters such as this one. I read many of my posts before I finish them and edit them accordingly. While there may not be a perfect thread or topic there are certainly ones that have longer or more fruitful discussions than others, wouldn't you agree? That's why I think about what I write typically before I write it rather than just post whatever is on my mind. And also: people can have favorites too. And who knows, with enough discussion this thread could be your favorite thread some day in the near future. But is this thread perfect? That's up for you decide.

Thank you--this aligns to me with the logical Bible plan of salvation:

God is perfect

Only perfectly moral people can live in utopia

Jesus, who is perfect, died and rose to save imperfect people

I'm forgiven now but will be TRANSFORMED to perfect when I meet Jesus at His return

This is why, per the Bible, the salvation plan is eminently and perfectly LOGICAL!

 

[ChristineM]

Haha, tell me about it! As a man in his 60s, I keep in mind advice given to my brother by his father-in-law: "Never miss an opportunity to pee." (His other piece of advice was "And never waste an erection". )

There is a 3rd like to that advice

Never trust a fart

 

[JustGeorge]

There is a 3rd like to that advice

Never trust a fart

My mom once took my sisters out to shop; they were young yet. Maybe elementary/middle school aged. They got there, and unloaded the van, and my mom let 'er rip. "Well, back in the van kids! Time to go!" They started to balk and whine, not understanding why they'd leave before they'd even gotten into the building. Asking for an explanation, the answer they received was "I thought that was a fart, but it wasn't." Then the upset whines turned to snickers, and we've never let her live that down. (One of them called me on the phone to tell me about it; I had moved out at that point.)

 

[exchemist]

We were alarmed when my middle son started going out the backdoor and peeing in the yard, until I realized the trouble was he didn't want to walk up the stairs, either... I just had to show him a better place to do it than the deck... (with that kid, you have to know what battles to choose, and how to fight them)

It sounds like your brother and my husband have things in common...



I think we all saw that coming...

I also have to go up one flight of stairs and, when in the kitchen, have been known to pee in the back garden. There is a theory it puts off the foxes, and I am not overlooked. But obviously I don't do this often, or it would smell.

 

[JustGeorge]

I also have to go up one flight of stairs and, when in the kitchen, have been known to pee in the back garden. There is a theory it puts off the foxes, and I am not overlooked. But obviously I don't do this often, or it would smell.

Must be working here, too... can't say I've seen any foxes!

(I've never seen a fox anywhere, but that's irrelevant...)

 

[Twilight Hue]

Perfection is in the eye of the beholder, IOW,, it is a matter of personal opinion

Yep. In fact one could say there is that perfect imperfection that one can strive for!

 

[Aupmanyav]

"What is Perfect?": Earth and life as it is present. No use crying against it.

 

[Fool]

This should be quite an interesting topic to discuss. As you may know by now I believe in Exaltism, and try to raise the honor of my family and friends. It seems like every time I talk about God, however, I throw in the word perfect. Why? Because it seems like every religion admits that God is perfect. According to Christianity, they say Jesus is perfect. According to Muslims, God is perfect, and not Muhammad, but Muhammad was the last prophet of a perfect God.

So where does that leave atheists and agnostics? If we apply the same logic, is it then impossible for an atheist to believe in perfection? And how about agnostics? Do agnostics believe that what is perfect is unknowable to themselves and others? And how about the anti-theists? Are they against perfection? I surely know what's perfect for myself. I've spent my entire life trying to make my life more perfect than it was in the past. And while I don't have the standard typical family, car or job I've taken what I've could, built up the most capital I've been able to while being on welfare and did the most things I could due to my mental illness.

I view theology like a perfect Spotify playlist. Some people have one perfect playlist they listen to over and over. Others have many. Some playlists have a thousand songs, others have ten. So while I view divinity as completely subjective in the needs and hands of others, I sincerely believe that things can improve and get better. I spend a lot of time creating Spotify playlists, making them perfect to listen to, publicize them and then I'll put them on shuffle. I'll spend hours crafting playlists and then spend hours listening to my creations.

Is there a perfect Spotify playlist? There are certain playlists that are perfect for me at almost any time of day, and I listen to them routinely. But for other people their perfect Spotify playlist would contain different music or be on a different service, like Deezer or Apple Music. And some people don't listen to music at all or are deaf.

To me what is perfect isn't necessarily the person but the environment they exist in. I live in poverty but I did my best to advocate for myself to put me in the best place I could thrive in: the suburbs. Most people I know in my complex are old and poor, but they're good people nonetheless trying to make their lives better before they pass away. There is low crime where I live, but I still live in an area which allows me access to my basic needs and healthcare when I need it.

If God is perfection, and what that perfection means to people can be different, then people are going to have different views of what God is. The atheist tends to be unassuming of what perfection means, or rather not to believe in perfection at all. And in Christianity there are "born again experiences" and "entire sanctification" moments that appear to me to be sacrilegious from a Christian standpoint because if you are entirely sanctified then why does that person still need Jesus? That's always confused me.

And yes, I recently changed my religious status from "Exaltism" to "Perfectionism", mostly because I was reading up what a perfectionist is, from a psychological standpoint and if it matches up with me very well from a theological standpoint as well. I want things to be perfect. And I'm trying my best to achieve those results for me in my life currently. I've learned things even recently, like drinking caffeine just before going to sleep is awful not because I can't sleep, but because the quality of sleep diminishes.

I believe that life is one big moment happening right now, weaving in and out of the good and the bad. Somethings get better, somethings get worse but it's up to all of us to find what works best for our current situations. Is my life perfect? No, far from it, but I know my limitations and how much I'm able to do as well. I know for a fact that if I go back to college now because my local community college now offers free tuition, I will fail miserably so I avoid taking it up. I prefer to be autodidactic anyways and learn what is important to me.

The atheist comedians and scientists that have been around for a long time, people like the late Christopher Hitchens and George Carlin, seem to be very negative to me and can't imagine anything the might be perfect. Whether it's a perfect past, present or future. I have a bias against atheism because I see them as pessimistic and nihilistic. I have an antitheist friend who brings himself down constantly because he can't imagine anything worth any amount of value to himself. But at the same time the way Christians view perfection, it's only accruable towards their own self-interest.

So where does that leave me and my theology? Maybe the Gods in various religions aren't perfect. Maybe the Abrahamic model is flawed and the God of these religions actually do more harm than good. In fact, according to the Bible, God killed millions of people. I don't see a consistent logical argument from that standpoint that also believes that God is perfect.

But what I do see throughout my life is that humans, if they work together, find ways to make their lives and their loved ones lives better. From satisfying the basic needs for each other to finding new ways to enhance the experience of life we as humans are always looking for what is and can be perfect.

Is anything truly perfect? I would argue that perfection does exist - but is always changing. And is completely subjective at the same time. I might listen to Pandora or Sirius XM, find the new killer song that I like, and then add it to my perfect Spotify playlists. But to say that perfection doesn't exist shows that there's nothing to strive for throughout our lives. I sincerely and deeply hope that whatever your theological view points are, you look for something that is better than what you currently have right now and you obtain it. Whether that is seeking a perfect being, being perfect yourself or finding a perfect environment for you to live in.

How would you answer this question? To you, what is perfect and how do we achieve it? Is looking for perfection in ourselves, in our environments and others fruitful or a waste of time? Let me know what you think below.

P.S.

I always strive for perfect communication, especially on thread starters such as this one. I read many of my posts before I finish them and edit them accordingly. While there may not be a perfect thread or topic there are certainly ones that have longer or more fruitful discussions than others, wouldn't you agree? That's why I think about what I write typically before I write it rather than just post whatever is on my mind. And also: people can have favorites too. And who knows, with enough discussion this thread could be your favorite thread some day in the near future. But is this thread perfect? That's up for you decide.

love is perfect. love does no harm.

proverbs 10:12

the awe of love is the beginning of wisdom

proverbs 10:14

 

[PearlSeeker]

Ofcourse there is perfection. Just think of a perfectly straight line. This is an example of an abstract geometric perfection.

Evangelical perfection is purity in heart (perfection of moral virtues). I don't know if Jesus was perfect because there is not much real historical information about him but he surely became a symbol of perfection.

Benjamin Franklin is an example of a man who has put a lot of systematic and patient effort into this kind of perfection. He set this goal:

It was about this time I conceived the bold and arduous project of arriving at moral perfection. I wished to live without committing any fault at any time; I would conquer all that either natural inclination, custom, or company might lead me into.
​

To do that he developed a list of 13 virtues. He didn't try to master all of them at once. He focused on one at a time. He carefully monitored and recorded his progress... At the old age he wrote in his biography:

Tho’ I never arrived at the perfection I had been so ambitious of obtaining, but fell far short of it, yet I was, by the endeavour, a better and a happier man than I otherwise should have been if I had not attempted it.
​

Source: How to Develop Your Character - Benjamin Franklin's Thirteen Virtues -

 

[Ben Dhyan]

Interesting pov, duality and oneness, expressions and parts. It's all the same, one substance, one reality. Even so, as part of the whole, with specific function as that part or piece, I can no more give up my identity as - than I can deny belonging to. Temporal as I am, I exist as I am for a specific reason with specific duty, inherent only to myself as a uniquely functioning part of that whole. It's a personal relationship with life as I know it, with God as God is and as I am existing as a part of. I could follow your road map, but your roadmap is specific to you, just as my road mad is specific to me.

The state of duality or oneness depends purely on self-identification. So long as you self identify with anything less than your source, such as your physical body, your mind will experience a sense of duality. If though through some prolonged efficacious religious practice, there is a self identity transition from the ego self to the Universal Self/God, the sense of duality disappears, only oneness remains.

 

[Balthazzar]

The state of duality or oneness depends purely on self-identification. So long as you self identify with anything less than your source, such as your physical body, your mind will experience a sense of duality. If though through some prolonged efficacious religious practice, there is a self identity transition from the ego self to the Universal Self/God, the sense of duality disappears, only oneness remains.

I am an individual - I prefer to be one - I'm not understanding your premise - No self? How does that work and why would you not want a personal identity?

 

[lewisnotmiller]

Cats and cake.

Surely not served on the same plate though...

 

[JustGeorge]

Surely not served on the same plate though...

Just hover and use your hands.

You act like there's clean dishes around here...

 

[Ben Dhyan]

I am an individual - I prefer to be one - I'm not understanding your premise - No self? How does that work and why would you not want a personal identity?

There is a Self, the eternal Divine spiritual one, not the mortal one.. If you self identify with your mortal body, you must cease to exist anyway when it dies, the smart thing to do is to transfer self identification to your spiritual source prior to death of the flesh.

 

[Goldemar]

This should be quite an interesting topic to discuss. As you may know by now I believe in Exaltism, and try to raise the honor of my family and friends. It seems like every time I talk about God, however, I throw in the word perfect. Why? Because it seems like every religion admits that God is perfect. According to Christianity, they say Jesus is perfect. According to Muslims, God is perfect, and not Muhammad, but Muhammad was the last prophet of a perfect God.

So where does that leave atheists and agnostics? If we apply the same logic, is it then impossible for an atheist to believe in perfection? And how about agnostics? Do agnostics believe that what is perfect is unknowable to themselves and others? And how about the anti-theists? Are they against perfection? I surely know what's perfect for myself. I've spent my entire life trying to make my life more perfect than it was in the past. And while I don't have the standard typical family, car or job I've taken what I've could, built up the most capital I've been able to while being on welfare and did the most things I could due to my mental illness.

I view theology like a perfect Spotify playlist. Some people have one perfect playlist they listen to over and over. Others have many. Some playlists have a thousand songs, others have ten. So while I view divinity as completely subjective in the needs and hands of others, I sincerely believe that things can improve and get better. I spend a lot of time creating Spotify playlists, making them perfect to listen to, publicize them and then I'll put them on shuffle. I'll spend hours crafting playlists and then spend hours listening to my creations.

Is there a perfect Spotify playlist? There are certain playlists that are perfect for me at almost any time of day, and I listen to them routinely. But for other people their perfect Spotify playlist would contain different music or be on a different service, like Deezer or Apple Music. And some people don't listen to music at all or are deaf.

To me what is perfect isn't necessarily the person but the environment they exist in. I live in poverty but I did my best to advocate for myself to put me in the best place I could thrive in: the suburbs. Most people I know in my complex are old and poor, but they're good people nonetheless trying to make their lives better before they pass away. There is low crime where I live, but I still live in an area which allows me access to my basic needs and healthcare when I need it.

If God is perfection, and what that perfection means to people can be different, then people are going to have different views of what God is. The atheist tends to be unassuming of what perfection means, or rather not to believe in perfection at all. And in Christianity there are "born again experiences" and "entire sanctification" moments that appear to me to be sacrilegious from a Christian standpoint because if you are entirely sanctified then why does that person still need Jesus? That's always confused me.

And yes, I recently changed my religious status from "Exaltism" to "Perfectionism", mostly because I was reading up what a perfectionist is, from a psychological standpoint and if it matches up with me very well from a theological standpoint as well. I want things to be perfect. And I'm trying my best to achieve those results for me in my life currently. I've learned things even recently, like drinking caffeine just before going to sleep is awful not because I can't sleep, but because the quality of sleep diminishes.

I believe that life is one big moment happening right now, weaving in and out of the good and the bad. Somethings get better, somethings get worse but it's up to all of us to find what works best for our current situations. Is my life perfect? No, far from it, but I know my limitations and how much I'm able to do as well. I know for a fact that if I go back to college now because my local community college now offers free tuition, I will fail miserably so I avoid taking it up. I prefer to be autodidactic anyways and learn what is important to me.

The atheist comedians and scientists that have been around for a long time, people like the late Christopher Hitchens and George Carlin, seem to be very negative to me and can't imagine anything the might be perfect. Whether it's a perfect past, present or future. I have a bias against atheism because I see them as pessimistic and nihilistic. I have an antitheist friend who brings himself down constantly because he can't imagine anything worth any amount of value to himself. But at the same time the way Christians view perfection, it's only accruable towards their own self-interest.

So where does that leave me and my theology? Maybe the Gods in various religions aren't perfect. Maybe the Abrahamic model is flawed and the God of these religions actually do more harm than good. In fact, according to the Bible, God killed millions of people. I don't see a consistent logical argument from that standpoint that also believes that God is perfect.

But what I do see throughout my life is that humans, if they work together, find ways to make their lives and their loved ones lives better. From satisfying the basic needs for each other to finding new ways to enhance the experience of life we as humans are always looking for what is and can be perfect.

Is anything truly perfect? I would argue that perfection does exist - but is always changing. And is completely subjective at the same time. I might listen to Pandora or Sirius XM, find the new killer song that I like, and then add it to my perfect Spotify playlists. But to say that perfection doesn't exist shows that there's nothing to strive for throughout our lives. I sincerely and deeply hope that whatever your theological view points are, you look for something that is better than what you currently have right now and you obtain it. Whether that is seeking a perfect being, being perfect yourself or finding a perfect environment for you to live in.

How would you answer this question? To you, what is perfect and how do we achieve it? Is looking for perfection in ourselves, in our environments and others fruitful or a waste of time? Let me know what you think below.

P.S.

I always strive for perfect communication, especially on thread starters such as this one. I read many of my posts before I finish them and edit them accordingly. While there may not be a perfect thread or topic there are certainly ones that have longer or more fruitful discussions than others, wouldn't you agree? That's why I think about what I write typically before I write it rather than just post whatever is on my mind. And also: people can have favorites too. And who knows, with enough discussion this thread could be your favorite thread some day in the near future. But is this thread perfect? That's up for you decide.

In what way(s) is God perfect?

 

[Exaltist Ethan]

In what way(s) is God perfect?

Eternalness, ubiquity, omniscience, omnipotency. Plus, why would you worship a God that wasn't perfect?