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TagliatelliMonster

Veteran Member
"When new insights emerge they can never ever be peer reviewed."

Science has always maintained a status quo but in the past (like people born before 1935) most scientists were open minded enough to consider almost anything. This is no longer true and few scientists can see past the tip of a Peer's nose.

Part of the problem is experiment is usually expensive and it is money that drives science rather than truth now. The money is provided by institutions with axes to grind and Kumbaya to sing. If you don't play along with Peers and the status quo you can get neither funding nor a job.

We're in real trouble.

Peer review can only be applied to things that fully agree with the status quo. New ideas never agree with the status quo.

What nonsense.

Nobel prizes, glory and fame for scientists aren't attributed for upholding the status quo.

Turning fields upside down and proving your peers wrong, is what makes you famous and how you get universities, streets and towns named in your honor.
 

TagliatelliMonster

Veteran Member
I myself find mainstream physics rather laughable at times. Some of the hypotheses now days are almost hilarious and paint an infinite number of ramps to build an infinite number of pyramid and not even one single pyramid built the easy way by pulling stones straight up the sides!

Imagine going to a baseball game and having your team win infinity to zero. Then imagine the difficulty getting home with all the new universes popping into existence! Every time you come to a red light an infinite number more appear as well.

If you don't find such things humorous you might just be a believer.

This post should be on wikipedia as an illustration example for the topic "argument from incredulity"
 

Native

Free Natural Philosopher & Comparative Mythologist
Philosophy is great at asking questions.
Science is great at answering them.
Nice quote indeed.

But in the past 100 years or so, cosmological science has generally paused using and listening to natural philosophical ponderings in order to solve several standing cosmological problems.

Just take the idea, that the weakest of all assumed fundamental forces, gravity, is basically thought to govern everything in the observable Universe.

This approach is blocking for all other ideas, explanations and solutions.

Or take the scientific understanding of the three conventional remaining E&M fundamental forces are thought to work differently in three separate scientific areas, when the definition of very E&M force is just one.

Taking the E&M to work separately in three scientific areas, is blocking for a Grand Unified Theory, (GUT)

Taking both GRAVITY and GUT, this is blocking for a Theory of Everything, as even the E&M, as in GUT, can explain both cosmological formational matters as well as motional matters everywhere.

I have my philosophical take on all this on this here at - THE OERSTED THEORY OF EVERYTHING (The TOTOE Model)

Any thoughts of this article?
 
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Native

Free Natural Philosopher & Comparative Mythologist
This post should be on wikipedia as an illustration example for the topic "argument from incredulity"
I took @cladking´s comment as a collective feedback to science in general, so there is no need to take it personal and refer to a site which you don´t like, is there?
 

Subduction Zone

Veteran Member
Nice quote indeed.

But in the past 100 years or so, cosmological science has generally paused using and listening to natural philosophical ponderings in order to solve several standing cosmological problems.

Just take the idea, that the weakest of all assumed fundamental forces, gravity, is basically thought to govern everything in the observable Universe.

This approach is blocking for all other ideas, explanations and solutions.

Or take the scientific understanding of the three conventional remaining E&M fundamental forces are thought to work differently in three separate scientific areas, when the definition of very E&M force is just one.

Taking the E&M to work separately in three scientific areas, is blocking for a Grand Unified Theory, (GUT)

Taking both GRAVITY and GUT, this is blocking for a Theory of Everything, as even the E&M, as in GUT, can explain both cosmological formational matters as well as motional matters everywhere.

I have my philosophical take on all this on this here at - THE OERSTED THEORY OF EVERYTHING (TOTOE)

Any thoughts of this article?
Backwards. Gravity is confirmed by observation, a form of experimentation.
 

cladking

Well-Known Member
What nonsense.

Nobel prizes, glory and fame for scientists aren't attributed for upholding the status quo.

Turning fields upside down and proving your peers wrong, is what makes you famous and how you get universities, streets and towns named in your honor.

I hate to break this to you but those big discoveries that turn a field upside down usually just affect a small corner of a field somewhere.

Of course you believe that science knows everything so any kind of change is revolutionary.
 

cladking

Well-Known Member
This post should be on wikipedia as an illustration example for the topic "argument from incredulity"

Remarkable!

It's easier for you to believe in an infinite number of universes than that there is only our one observable universe and it was created.

And you wonder that I call you a believer.
 

TagliatelliMonster

Veteran Member
I took @cladking´s comment as a collective feedback to science in general, so there is no need to take it personal and refer to a site which you don´t like, is there?
"Personal"?

"site you don't like"?

What the heck are you talking about?
Did you hit the wrong reply button?
 

TagliatelliMonster

Veteran Member
I hate to break this to you but those big discoveries that turn a field upside down usually just affect a small corner of a field somewhere.

Of course you believe that science knows everything so any kind of change is revolutionary.

I don't believe that at all nor have I ever said anything of the sort.
When you're done arguing strawmen, call me.
 

TagliatelliMonster

Veteran Member
It's easier for you to believe in an infinite number of universes than that there is only our one observable universe and it was created.

A multiverse that produces many space-time continuums (infinite or otherwise), is plausible, since we have relatively well-supported cosmological theories that naturally predict such. I don't "believe" that to be fact / true. I just understand that in context of our current knowledge, it is at least plausible.

There is nothing of the sort to support the idea that there is just this one space-time bubble and that it was created by some incomprehensible self-refuting entity.

And you wonder that I call you a believer.

I don't wonder about that. I understand your strawmanning ways.
 

mikkel_the_dane

My own religion
Science isn't a philosophy. It's a method.

It is a method informed by philosophy and a result of the limitations within philosophy. There is a reason with have truth, proof and evidence and they are not the same. Evidence as a method is a philosophical process, which avoid problems with truth and proof.
 

mikkel_the_dane

My own religion
Probably by analyzing the efficacy of various problem solving methods. It started out as "natural philosophy" where people used observation and rational thought. There are limitations to that and it has flaws. Personal bias can heavily affect one's conclusions. The scientific method attempts, and often succeeds, to minimize the effects of personal bias.

There may be a better method out there. But no one has found it yet. You will also see some science deniers here. They don't appear to like science because it is too hard. They appear to want an easier method. Often because they cannot justify their beliefs.

Well, science as you reference it, is a British cultural product. In e.g. Denmark science is something else.
 

mikkel_the_dane

My own religion
That was respectful. Sometimes the truth hurts. I did not call you any names such as . . .well let's not even go there.

It now appears that you do not like the scientific method. What better method do you have?

Like and better are subjective and for science there is no one only objective method. There are variants and all are in part social, cultural and so on.
 

LegionOnomaMoi

Veteran Member
Premium Member
A multiverse that produces many space-time continuums (infinite or otherwise), is plausible, since we have relatively well-supported cosmological theories that naturally predict such.
Not actually true at all, really. Of course, there are many cosmologists and others who use the term "predict" to include e.g., "would require" (in the say that string theories "predict" supersymmetry because string theories require SUSY at a foundational level), or "in retrospect" (the way that the Dirac sea and his Hole Theory "predicted" both positrons and antimatter more generally), and worse. But the basis for multiverse cosmologies are largely about fine-tuning and unnaturalness, i.e., that the empirical and theoretical basis for the standard model of cosmology yields something that seems contrived, designed, unnatural, etc., in a number of ways that feel too uncomfortably similar to the introduction of pre-Copernican princniples which place us at the center of a universe:

"Despite the growing popularity of the multiverse proposal, it must be admitted that many physicists remain deeply uncomfortable with it. The reason is clear: the idea is highly speculative and, from both a cosmological and a particle physics perspective, the reality of a multiverse is currently untestable...For these reasons, some physicists do not regard these ideas as coming under the purvey of science at all. Since our confidence in them is based on faith and aesthetic considerations (for example mathematical beauty) rather than experimental data, they regard them as having more in common with religion than science."
&

"To the hard-line physicist, the multiverse may not be entirely respectable, but it is at least preferable to invoking a Creator. Indeed anthropically inclined physicists like Susskind and Weinberg are attracted to the multiverse precisely because it seems to dispense with God as the explanation of cosmic design"
(emphases added)

Both quotes are taken from the editorial introduction to the volume
Carr, B. (Ed.). (2007). Universe or multiverse?. Cambridge University Press.
A similar volume by some of the same specialists and some new contributors was produced two years ago and is worth reading: Fine-Tuning in the Physical Universe.

Or, more simply, from a series that is less intended for specialists (but still produced by an academic publishing company in a edited monograph/volume series, in way that peer-reviewed journals are) :

"'miraculous' features of the standard model that seem to be carefully designed for the existence of life can also be understood if we take the view that we live only in one of the many universes which satisfies the conditions for life to exist."
&
“Suppose there was only one universe. Then it would be very difficult to explain miraculous features of our universe, such as the structure of elementary particles and the value of the vacuum energy, without resorting to some sort of creator. In the multiverse picture, however, there are an enormous number (10^500 or more) of different universes, so some of them possess these miraculous features that lead to intelligent life, without a help of any creator. This, of course, does not prove that there is no such creator, but given that a goal of science is to try to understand our physical nature as much as possible without relying on such an almighty person, the approach of the multiverse is exactly that of science.” (emphasis added)

Quoted from
Y. Nomura (2018) Misconceptions about the Multiverse. In Y. Nomura, B. Poirier, & J. Terning (Eds.): Quantum Physics, Mini Black Holes, and the Multiverse: Debunking Common Misconceptions in Theoretical Physics (Part III: Misconceptions about the Multiverse). Springer.

Now, statements like the above are contentious, in that it is perfectly acceptable to feel that cosmological models which have fine-tuning, naturalness, and related issues are problematic without believing that they have anything to do with a designer (even if they appear to introduce design-like qualities). But the point is that the evidence for such models is based on aesthetics and intuition about existing, supported theories being too seemingly contrived or requiring too great a number of coincidences and so forth. It is only in the sense that multiverse cosmologies or aspects thereof are thought to (in some cases) remove these issues is it the case that they are "predicted". But by that logic, so is God. So no, they aren't predicted.
 
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